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TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

Sanchez

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So that people won't be confused:

"Simply answering a few questions

Question: What about Biden's letter?
Answer: A simultaneous "confidence-building" step upon the Parliament vote

Question: So is this the official notification we have been waiting for?
Answer: No.

Question: What is the US waiting for?
Answer: For Turkey to officially complete the ratification process and send the documents."

Per how US said for the last few weeks/months, nothing has changed so far and they want it done.
 
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Scott Summers

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Biden admin. writes letter to US Congress to OK F-16 sales to Türkiye​


 In this Dec. 15, 2014 file photo, the State Department is seen in Washington. (AP File Photo)

The Joe Biden administration urged the U.S. Congress to approve the sale of F-16 fighter jets and modernization kits to Türkiye in a letter submitted on Wednesday, sources said.

The administration wrote to members of Congress, urging the approval of a $20 billion sale of Lockheed Martin F-16 aircraft and modernization kits, three sources familiar with the letter told Reuters.

 

dBSPL

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Even 20 billion dollars is a huge figure. Yes, even if you put tons of ammunition in it, it is a very big figure. Turkiye and TuAF has an established F-16 industry. There is already a logistics system that has been functioning for decades. One of the largest non-US production bases is in Ankara. Both TAI and the Air Force have had an institutional culture for decades, from routine ground services to depot level maintenances. Moreover, we have one of the most advanced F-16 test squadrons outside the US and we are capable of conducting advanced integrations. Work workforce, there is an extraordinarily experienced ground crew that has been able to bring back to life even aircraft such as 88-0033 that were deemed impossible to fly again. It goes without saying, there is no problem in terms of training, infrastructure and documentation if we talking about F-16s.

Then what is the budget of 20 billion dollars? The only possibility I can think of is that we have been subjected to a heavy embargo in recent years, which has really strained the existing F-16 logistics. So it's not just for 40 new aircraft or some upgrade kits, but huge logistics procurement that covers the entire existing F-16 fleet.
 
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Afif

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That still feels like a robbery though.
 

dBSPL

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That still feels like a robbery though.
By way of comparison, when Turkiye joined the JSF project, there was talk in 2000s that it would spend $14-18 billion on aircraft procurement, while in 2017, the then defense minister announced in his presentation to parliament that the total amount to be spent for 100 aircraft would be $25 billion.
 

Oublious

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By way of comparison, when Turkiye joined the JSF project, there was talk in 2000s that it would spend $14-18 billion on aircraft procurement, while in 2017, the then defense minister announced in his presentation to parliament that the total amount to be spent for 100 aircraft would be $25 billion.


Maybe they are calculating the next 20 years of operation cost within?
 

Afif

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By way of comparison, when Turkiye joined the JSF project, there was talk in 2000s that it would spend $14-18 billion on aircraft procurement, while in 2017, the then defense minister announced in his presentation to parliament that the total amount to be spent for 100 aircraft would be $25 billion.

Tbh, paying 25 billions for 100 F-35 (with full package) is way more worth it than paying 20 billions for 40 F16 and 79 upgrade kit. (With full package)
 

dBSPL

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Tbh, paying 25 billions for 100 F-35 (with full package) is way more worth it than paying 20 billions for 40 F16 and 79 upgrade kit. (With full package)
As I wrote above, the only explanation I can think of is that while procuring these aircrafts, we also want to fill the maintenance, non-localized spare materials and ammunition depots to the brim, for everything that has been in supply problems in recent years or whose stock levels need secure for some future developments that we don't yet know about. Not just 40+70 but for whole F-16 fleet and plus, engine needs for first blocks national aircrafts.
 

Sanchez

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20bn figure also includes thousands of AA and AG munitions as well.
 

Chocopie

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Taiwan paid $4.1 billion in 2017 for upgrade of 141 F-16 A/B Block 20 to V-standard (assembly done locally).

$8 billion in 2019 for 66 brand new F-16V Block 70 starting delayed delivery in 2024.

$20 billion? Even with missiles, spare engines and parts the total sum is insanely high.
 

dBSPL

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20bn figure also includes thousands of AA and AG munitions as well.
Around 900 air-to-air ammunition is rumored, but let's say with an exaggerated estimate that the supply of around 3000 air-air, air-ground and various types of payloads is planned, and let's even assume 1.5x engine supply, but I still couldn't get out of the business for 40 aircraft and upgrade kits. For little over 20 billion dollars, TAI and its partners can fully develop KAAN, complete its tests and deliver 50 to the air force within 7-10 years.
 

Sanchez

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For little over 20 billion dollars, TAI and its partners can fully develop KAAN, complete its tests and deliver 50 to the air force within 7-10 years.
If US gives us the engines to work on the prototypes, that is. I don't think so, but hopefully they are part of the deal. This is one of the costs of being a world leading air force, that you play nice with the top dog. Action, reaction. Maybe they will even invite us to Red Flag again :)
 
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TR_123456

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If US gives us the engines to work on the prototypes, that is. I don't think so, but hopefully they are part of the deal. This is one of the costs of being a world leading air force, that you play nice with the top dog. Action, reaction. Maybe they will even invite us to Red Flag again :)
You see the bigger picture. (y) (y) (y)
 

DBdev

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"The sale "is larger than expected" and includes 40 F-16 fighters and modernization kits for 79 of the warplanes already in Ankara's possession, the Wall Street Journal newspaper reported, citing anonymous officials familiar with the matter.

"Ankara requested the F-16s and modernization kits in October 2021 in what was previously estimated to cost $6 billion."

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So; A few hundred silly ammunition raised package price from $6 billion to $20?

More likely they are screwing us the same way they are screwing oil trillionaire Arab nations. 3x the friendly nation price just because. Take it or leave it. We should have left it. F-16 is now nothing but a 150 million per plane coffin against F-35s that all our enemies have in spades.
 

Nutuk

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20bln doesn't make sense

Even if the 900 AA missiles cost 3mln / piece it would make less than 3bln

As usual the mentioned amount is far above the real value, kind of masking the real sales
 
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