TR Aircraft Carrier & Amphibious Ship Programs

[dBSPL]

Additional notes: In the first phase, the National Aircraft Carrier will not include a catapult system since there is still no national/indigenous capability in this field, but the ship design will include a Modular Ramp System, and if it is possible to produce a domestic catapult in the future, this modular ramp will be dismantled and the flight runway/deck will be converted into a flat structure and the catapult system can be integrated into the ship. For this purpose, a space has been reserved for the catapult in the interior layout design of the National Aircraft Carrier, in case it may be installed in the future.

İstanbul Tersanesi Komutanlığı, Dizayn Proje Ofisi (DPO) Müdürlüğü ve TCG İstanbul Fırkateyni Kapılarını Basına Açtı

Ülkemizde 84 özel tersane ve 4 askeri tersane bulunmakta olup bunlar arasında gerek kapasite, gerekse kapsadığı alan açısından en büyüğü tarihi 1455’li yıllara dayanan İstanbul Tersanesi Komutanlığı’dır. 140.000m2’si kapalı alan olmak üzere toplamda 1 Milyon m2 genişliğinde bir alan üzerine...

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[Afif]

Additional notes: In the first phase, the National Aircraft Carrier will not include a catapult system since there is still no national/indigenous capability in this field, but the ship design will include a Modular Ramp System, and if it is possible to produce a domestic catapult in the future, this modular ramp will be dismantled and the flight runway/deck will be converted into a flat structure and the catapult system can be integrated into the ship. For this purpose, a space has been reserved for the catapult in the interior layout design of the National Aircraft Carrier, in case it may be installed in the future.

İstanbul Tersanesi Komutanlığı, Dizayn Proje Ofisi (DPO) Müdürlüğü ve TCG İstanbul Fırkateyni Kapılarını Basına Açtı

Ülkemizde 84 özel tersane ve 4 askeri tersane bulunmakta olup bunlar arasında gerek kapasite, gerekse kapsadığı alan açısından en büyüğü tarihi 1455’li yıllara dayanan İstanbul Tersanesi Komutanlığı’dır. 140.000m2’si kapalı alan olmak üzere toplamda 1 Milyon m2 genişliğinde bir alan üzerine...

www.defenceturkey.com

That is a sensible approach. But they can also try to get it from US like France did.

 

[Anmdt]

It also looks like the design has 2 or 3 STAMP or STOP on either side.

Those are Gökdeniz (The ship has an enormous size even Gökdeniz appears to be STOP)
It will likely have 4 Gökdeniz, 2 Nazar, 8 STOP, 32 Cell MIDLAS

 

[Anmdt]

Source: Defence Turkey

 

[Anmdt]

 

[boredaf]

Those are Gökdeniz (The ship has an enormous size even Gökdeniz appears to be STOP)
It will likely have 4 Gökdeniz, 2 Nazar, 8 STOP, 32 Cell MIDLAS

No, I'm not talking about the ones on the corners which are obviously Gökdeniz. Take a look at the pics that show the models from the side, it looks like there are at least 2 more turrets there.

 

[Anmdt]

No, I'm not talking about the ones on the corners which are obviously Gökdeniz. Take a look at the pics that show the models from the side, it looks like there are at least 2 more turrets there.

Those are STOP / SMASH. Hard to distinguish.

 

[dBSPL]

View attachment 67522

Source: Defence Turkey

There is another important detail in the draft drawing: both aircraft elevators are shown in huuge dimensions. To emphasize this, it is even shown that it can carry 2 aircrafts to the deck at once. These details, and especially the optional retention of CATOBAR in the main design, make me think that we are definitely designing this ship for a future variant of KAAN.

 

[Anmdt]

There is another important detail in the draft drawing: the hangar aircraft elevators are shown in huuge dimensions. To emphasize this, it is even shown that it can carry 2 aircrafts to the deck at once.

I think those are made to lift one MMU in dimensions, so 1 MMU = 2 KE/Hürjet/ANKA3 or 4/5 TB3

 

[boredaf]

Those are STOP / SMASH. Hard to distinguish.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about. One of the goals seems to make sure that it has more than enough firepower to be able to defend itself.

 

[Zafer]

Considering that a catapult system is not being considered for the first Turkish AC an electric powered wheeled tow system can be considered to move the planes around and also possibly help gain initial speed for like 30-40 meters along the runway. This will speed up operations and save fuel for the planes.

 

[Zafer]

Turns out they are making the Turkish AC ski-jump upgradable to a catapult system, a feature that was in my wishlist.

 

[Sanchez]

While the future “upgradeability” is nice to have, it comes with additional costs. QE was also to be modular like that, but projected costs from before the ships were built were tiny and they decided to not follow up on a CATOBAR retrofit after having a second look.

US did hundreds to maybe thousands of trial runs for EMALS. A catapult system is not easy to implement. It also costs a lot to design it. French just opted to have EMALS and will pay billions. As far as I know, there are no modern non nuclear powered carriers with CATOBAR.

Imagining a carrier that may or may not be upgraded during its life to its full potential may be a misuse of the budget. First design should be able to match the requirements laid out for it.

This in its current first stage design looks to be a carrier for Hürjet-N, which will be very short of breath with its single F404 and will always require a buddy tanker fill up before going for a sortie; a TB3, that is defenseless against any enemy aircraft and nearly all SAMs, and KE, a future fighter that is at the beginning of its development phase and not clear whether it will ever match what we envision for it.

Development of this carrier and its air wing will cost us billions of dollars. Capabilities it will bring needs to match the money we will pour into it.

 

[Zafer]

Small planes launched by small catapults come with a small price tag. Good thing we have made a good start with unmanned planes.

 

[Sanchez]

Small planes launched by small catapults come with a small price tag. Good thing we have made a good start with unmanned planes.

Hürjet is not a small plane. Kaan is huge. And these are manned aircraft, which brings huge safety requirements. Possible TCG-CV(Trakya?) will be a one off design and to develop a catapult for it would take years of ground tests and then tears of onboard tests. We would need to build the thing by paying billions and then take it offline for years again to retrofit it.

I do agree that we have come far with UCAVs but we are sometimes forgetting that the road between RC controlled toy planes and UCAVs like Akıncı are shorter than the road between UCAVs and real unmanned fighter jets. We have years to go, tech is not even here yet.

This is the cost of being a future super power. We have grand projections and dreams, but not the capabilities or the budget befitting our needs.

A carrier is a generational program. We can’t go at it as with our usual ventures. A two year delay on it is billions of dollars, not tens of millions. Design and project phase must be rock solid before we start it. It shouldn’t be hopes, dreams and best case scenarios but solid data and capabilities we already have and will have in the short term that guide us, not future plans that may or may not work.

 

[Anmdt]

A carrier is a generational program. We can’t go at it as with our usual ventures. A two year delay on it is billions of dollars, not tens of millions. Design and project phase must be rock solid before we start it. It shouldn’t be hopes, dreams and best case scenarios but solid data and capabilities we already have and will have in the short term that guide us, not future plans that may or may not work.

I believe Navy is adequately sane on the matter and not rushing the project to catch up with a schedule.

While the future “upgradeability” is nice to have, it comes with additional costs.

Upgrade-ability cost less than upgrading without a notice or plan, therefore it exists. I also question the need for a catapult on MUG to begin with, but we also should keep in mind the ship is meant to be in service in late 2030s, and serve for 40 years at minimum, we are speaking of 50s for an MLU and if necessary space for the catapult is not envisioned from the start then it will cause more issues. And i, and likely Navy, has no clear projection for 2050 what technologies may be available nationally, or not. We shall also keep this in mind, if we truly intend to hold power projection capability then we will need a sistership to MUG.

 

[Aqerdf]

Two different layouts shown for National CV i guess.

and

Sources are: Defence Turkey and TurDef.

 

[Anmdt]

Two different layouts shown for National CV i guess.

View attachment 67545 View attachment 67546

and

View attachment 67547 View attachment 67548

Sources are: Defence Turkey and TurDef.

Rather old and new.

 

[BaburKhan]

As far I understood, for the beginning it's planned to use Hürjet Naval for the Carrier Fighter Wing later it's planned to use Kaan ?

 

[Zafer]

Hürjet is only 60% of an F16, does this make it a big plane, NO. Kaan is 240% of an F16, yes Kaan is a big plane, alright. Planes rated by their engine power.