TR Land Vehicle Programs

[Afif]

Well cockerill can be penetrated by even AP 12.7 while MZK offers protection against 120/125mm apfsds'

I really doubt it would stop 120/125mm APFSDS. Does it have 800mm RHA equivalent armor?

 

[Radonsider]

I really doubt it would stop 120/125mm APFSDS. Does it have 800mm RHA equivalent armor?

It has better armour against APFSDS than T-72B's turret's protection

 

[somegoodusername]

But why aren't we making something of Cockerills level and trying to reach the same quality. As long as the quality is the same we can work on better products by adhering to higher quality standards.

I know it's not easy, but I hope at least there are dedicated R&D for that. Kaplan MT is imo bloody awesome.

I remember there was a project, but it takes time, money, and engineers. So we have to wait few years.

 

[Kartal1]

I remember there was a project, but it takes time, money, and engineers. So we have to wait few years.

The turret itself, we can do, but looks like the cannons (barrels) are what is stopping us. I remember having a discussion with @Chocopie and some other guys in the Altay thread I think when we were talking about the M60TM modernization project.

 

[Sanchez]

The turret itself, we can do, but looks like the cannons (barrels) are what is stopping us.

Wouldn't be so sure. We have 3 builders that offer their stuff for the last decade and more. Plenty of turret options. Number of non license(Sharpshooter) turrets on the stuff we sold over the year is near zero. Turrets are hard job, that's why Cockerill lives on, they can guarantee success no matter how average.

 

[boredaf]

I really doubt it would stop 120/125mm APFSDS. Does it have 800mm RHA equivalent armor?

It has better armour against APFSDS than T-72B's turret's protection

From Roketsan's ballistic protection catalogue

https://www.roketsan.com.tr/uploads/docs/kataloglar/ENG/1674211734_bkm-eng.pdf

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1834185532974289285

M60’s with new paint job included in inventory

 

[Strong AI]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1834185532974289285

M60’s with new paint job included in inventory

Gunner Sabot, Tank Fire!

Deliveries have started within the scope of the TİYK-M60T Project. With the project, dependence on the Israeli-made fire control system was ended.

ASELSAN VOLKAN-M Fire Control System and Roketsan Additional Armor System were put into operation.

ASELSAN had integrated many domestic systems into the M-60T within the scope of the FIRAT-M60T Project.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1756248940754715036

Test footage is from February.

 

[TheInsider]

MZK's addon armour has STANAG lvl6 rating. Base MZK without addon has armour inserts like any other MBT turret

The passive layer of add-on armor has STANAG level 6A protection, and the reactive layer has 6b protection(PDF page 15). The turret itself should have level 4 or 5 armor protection. It is made of thick angled armor steel.

 

[Radonsider]

View attachment 70542
From Roketsan's ballistic protection catalogue

https://www.roketsan.com.tr/uploads/docs/kataloglar/ENG/1674211734_bkm-eng.pdf

T-72 Badger is a different one, you should look for the MZK section

 

[boredaf]

T-72 Badger is a different one, you should look for the MZK section

The turret in that diagram is MZK as well, check the weight of the turret and the diagram. And Roketsan already said it can be used in T-72s. I doubt Roketsan's M-60 upgrades will be any different, in fact they don't even mention any numbers in M-60 section of the catalogue.

 

[Radonsider]

The turret in that diagram is MZK as well, check the weight of the turret and the diagram. And Roketsan already said it can be used in T-72s. I doubt Roketsan's M-60 upgrades will be any different, in fact they don't even mention any numbers in M-60 section of the catalogue.

Badger only has ERA and sensor improvement/add-ons while MZK is a whole new turret, with its own composite inserts, design and autoloader.

 

[boredaf]

View attachment 70543
Badger only has ERA and sensor improvement/add-ons while MZK is a whole new turret, with its own composite inserts, design and autoloader.

Then you have to explain to me how they reduced the turret weight from 18 tons to 13 tons while just adding armour.

 

[Chocopie]

The turret itself, we can do, but looks like the cannons (barrels) are what is stopping us. I remember having a discussion with @Chocopie and some other guys in the Altay thread I think when we were talking about the M60TM modernization project.

I remember well. Koreans never bothered to make a 105 mm tank gun turret for lighter hulls, they license-built M68 guns for K1 MBT before installing 120 mm cannons on K1A1/A2.

For exports Hanwha once put 105 mm Cockerill CT-CV 105HP turret on our K-21 IFV as a light/medium tank. The Belgians are the leaders in the mediocre light-weight, poorly armored turret market as @Sanchez mentioned.

 

[Radonsider]

Then you have to explain to me how they reduced the turret weight from 18 tons to 13 tons while just adding armour.

View attachment 70547

because T-72M1's turret is old and mostly composed of RHA. Even later T-80U or T-90A turrets weigh less than T-72M1's while offering better protection

 

[boredaf]

because T-72M1's turret is old and mostly composed of RHA. Even later T-80U or T-90A turrets weigh less than T-72M1's while offering better protection

Mate that makes zero sense. Roketsan is not going to make a new turret just for T-72 upgrades and they cannot just shave off 5 tons from the existing turret while adding armour.

Edit: Here is a news article about it from last year:

ROKETSAN offers the MZK turret solution, which provides higher protection, fire control performance and situational awareness for the M60A3 and T-72 main battle tanks. Lighter than existing turrets (the T-72 turret weighs 18 tons, while the M60A3 turret weighs 14.5 tons), the 13-ton MZK provides increased protection against RPG, anti-tank, APFSDS ammunition and up to 30mm automatic cannon ammunition.

ROKETSAN'dan M60A3 ve T-72 tankları için MZK kulesi

ROKETSAN, M60A3 ve T-72 tankları için daha yüksek koruma, atış kontrol ve durumsal farkındalık sağlayan MZK kule çözümünü sunuyor.

www.defenceturk.net

 

[Radonsider]

Mate that makes zero sense. Roketsan is not going to make a new turret just for T-72 upgrades and they cannot just shave off 5 tons from the existing turret while adding armour.

Edit: Here is a news article about it from last year:

ROKETSAN offers the MZK turret solution, which provides higher protection, fire control performance and situational awareness for the M60A3 and T-72 main battle tanks. Lighter than existing turrets (the T-72 turret weighs 18 tons, while the M60A3 turret weighs 14.5 tons), the 13-ton MZK provides increased protection against RPG, anti-tank, APFSDS ammunition and up to 30mm automatic cannon ammunition.

ROKETSAN'dan M60A3 ve T-72 tankları için MZK kulesi

ROKETSAN, M60A3 ve T-72 tankları için daha yüksek koruma, atış kontrol ve durumsal farkındalık sağlayan MZK kule çözümünü sunuyor.

www.defenceturk.net

MZK isn't just for T-72, it is on the name "Modüler Zırhlı Kule"

You can shave off 5 tonnes or even more with changing and using effective armour inserts rather than heavy RHA. Don't get me wrong, T-72M1's turret protection is also good enough but it isn't adequate for DM-53 and never

 

[Anmdt]

Hence the difference between a tank turret and an oversized ifv turret. Cockerill products are so average that it hurts. It's a tough job being market leader in average products.

They are average, mediocre and compact and i can proudly telll Aselsan's electronics or Leonardo's turret are far better than Cockerill's mediocre turrets.

And despite that Cockerill has audacity to pick customer or block sales through Belgian Government's orders, so out of blue you may face lack of spares and technical supports mid project or operation because of some lobbying powers.

 

[Saithan]

They are average, mediocre and compact and i can proudly telll Aselsan's electronics or Leonardo's turret are far better than Cockerill's mediocre turrets.

And despite that Cockerill has audacity to pick customer or block sales through Belgian Government's orders, so out of blue you may face lack of spares and technical supports mid project or operation because of some lobbying powers.

But why are our officials then still working with Cockerill ? it doesn't make sense that you would promote someone elses products this much ?

 

[Anmdt]

But why are our officials then still working with Cockerill ? it doesn't make sense that you would promote someone elses products this much ?

By the choice of customer, do we have any cockerill product in inventory? As far as i know they block sales to Turkiye.