TR Politics

[dBSPL]

They are even willing to change Article 66 if necessary to get RTE re-elected, they don't care where the country will evolve in 30 years. The leader of the extreme right-wing Kurdish party made a statement yesterday and said that terrorist apo called for a ceasefire and peace in Diyarbakır square in 2013, it didn't work then, do you expect it to work now? I am embarrassed on behalf of DB, so embarrassed that if I were DB, I would never be able to look a human being in the face again. On the other side, the leader of Atatürk's party goes to Diyarbakır to clarify the CHP's position in the new collective solution process, and he's making statements disregarding Article 66. As Cihat Yaycı said, nationalism of the nationalists is gone, the Atatürkism of the Atatürkists is gone, everyone has transferred en masse to the DEM party and become apoists.

 

[Asena_great]

guys what ever you do matters right now even if you cant originated in street make your presence know in social media even with fake name make your presence known it does matters if they see a strong reactions they may back down right now worst to do is to remain silent

 

[Rooxbar]

I want people to note what percentage of which parties' base can be critical of their own leaders, esp. in cases where the positions are the same. Important sociological observation.

 

[Ryder]

I want people to note what percentage of which parties' base can be critical of their own leaders, esp. in cases where the positions are the same. Important sociological observation.

Best example is my dad for him its Tayyip all the way.

My dad goes crazy at me for pointing out any constructive criticism.

My older brother once said to him Sanki Reisin opecek seni lmaooooo

 

[Strong AI]

So the four biggest parties are in for new trea... i mean peace talks.
And wtf is this statemente from Özel?
"I raise my hand, Mr. Bahçeli. I also offer a state to the Kurds. I offer all Kurds the opportunity to be the owners of the Republic of Turkey."

Allah sonumuzu hayir etsin.

Özel'den 'Öcalan' açıklaması: Tarihin doğru tarafında yer almak istiyoruz

Haber 7 - CHP Lideri Özel, Bahçeli'nin "Öcalan" çıkışı hakkında konuştu. Diyarbakır'da STK temsilcileriyle bir araya gelen Özel, "İktidarın karşısında konumlanarak siyasi kazanç edebiliriz. Ama biz tarihin doğru tarafında yer almak istiyoruz" dedi.

www.haber7.com

 

[Asena_great]

So the four biggest parties are in for new trea... i mean peace talks.
And wtf is this statemente from Özel?
"I raise my hand, Mr. Bahçeli. I also offer a state to the Kurds. I offer all Kurds the opportunity to be the owners of the Republic of Turkey."

Allah sonumuzu hayir etsin.

Özel'den 'Öcalan' açıklaması: Tarihin doğru tarafında yer almak istiyoruz

Haber 7 - CHP Lideri Özel, Bahçeli'nin "Öcalan" çıkışı hakkında konuştu. Diyarbakır'da STK temsilcileriyle bir araya gelen Özel, "İktidarın karşısında konumlanarak siyasi kazanç edebiliriz. Ama biz tarihin doğru tarafında yer almak istiyoruz" dedi.

www.haber7.com

and then they say why in turkey we have coup. those who did the coups were the real sons of this nation who delay this treasons time to time

 

[Rooxbar]

I don't know with what promises they've enticed AKP-MHP but as always, like how it went with the early phases of Syrian civil war process, the chances of Western actors duping these dumbasses is very high; as they are shrewd actors with mostly intelligence background, I fail to see how they might have overlooked the public response; so the public response should have also been a part of the calculation. The only rational consequence I can deduce is that with the promises of western backing and investment and also extending Erdogan's rule they have duped them into bringing the country to the brink of civil war. In this scenario, the attacks yesterday might be the responses of YPG elements under Mazlum Abdi in relation maybe with Russia who are not happy with our government being a part of the American plan for Syria, yet again.

 

[somegoodusername]

There was this one guy in this forum, who said somethink like after few PKK members killed in operations in Northern Iraq last month "5 less CHP supporters". I want to ask his opinions about Erdoğan's patriotic plans like making Öcalan speak at TBMM and then pardon him.

 

[Ryder]

and then they say why in turkey we have coup. those who did the coups were the real sons of this nation who delay this treasons time to time

I use to be against the military doing coups.

But now I realised why they do it. Because to prevent Politicians from having too much power to engage in treasonous actions.

Thanks to Tayyip/Akp, Mhp and Chp. Now realise why we need military coups.

 

[what]

I use to be against the military doing coups.

But now I realised why they do it. Because to prevent Politicians from having too much power to engage in treasonous actions.

Thanks to Tayyip/Akp, Mhp and Chp. Now realise why we need military coups.

I wish we were educated enough and our democracy mature enough, but almost a century after Atatürk we still deal with the same problems. I used to think the same, but our military was our fail-safe switch that is needed now and then.

The question is however, these days, who is running the military?

 

[No Name]

I wish we were educated enough and our democracy mature enough, but almost a century after Atatürk we still deal with the same problems. I used to think the same, but our military was our fail-safe switch that is needed now and then.

The question is however, these days, who is running the military?

It's because the foundations of the country were terrible to start with. No amount of coups or education will fix the country if the foundations are not good.

The truth is the Turkish people had been fucked since the Young Turk revolution back in 1908; since then, all of Turkey's political problems have been traced back to one another. Since the young Turks, there have been countless attempts to imitate Europeans without understanding the culture, institutions, and reality that led to the way European states existed the way they did. This was amplified when Ataturk founded the republic and based it on the French 4th republic, an unstable state on the verge of civil war less than 20 years after Ataturk coped its institution for the republic.

The consequence of this self-colonising mindset was forcing the population to conform to institutions that were not made to serve them. This is why the governments desired to forge and reshape citizens to meet their ideas of how a country should be. This translated into trying to reshape the population to resemble the desires of the ruling elites of the time; for example, Ataturk and the CHP founders tried to force the citizenry to resemble the European population they grew up alongside, while AKP championed the creation of a Pious population.

As such, no government feels subservient to the people's will; to them, the Turkish people are theirs to shape however they please. Turkey's institutions reflect this reality mainly in the electoral system, thus cementing this culture of carelessness, self-aggrandising, and treachery.

 

[YeşilVatan]

It's because the foundations of the country were terrible to start with. No amount of coups or education will fix the country if the foundations are not good.

The truth is the Turkish people had been fucked since the Young Turk revolution back in 1908; since then, all of Turkey's political problems have been traced back to one another. Since the young Turks, there have been countless attempts to imitate Europeans without understanding the culture, institutions, and reality that led to the way European states existed the way they did. This was amplified when Ataturk founded the republic and based it on the French 4th republic, an unstable state on the verge of civil war less than 20 years after Ataturk coped its institution for the republic.

The consequence of this self-colonising mindset was forcing the population to conform to institutions that were not made to serve them. This is why the governments desired to forge and reshape citizens to meet their ideas of how a country should be. This translated into trying to reshape the population to resemble the desires of the ruling elites of the time; for example, Ataturk and the CHP founders tried to force the citizenry to resemble the European population they grew up alongside, while AKP championed the creation of a Pious population.

As such, no government feels subservient to the people's will; to them, the Turkish people are theirs to shape however they please. Turkey's institutions reflect this reality mainly in the electoral system, thus cementing this culture of carelessness, self-aggrandising, and treachery.

This is a gross mischaracterization of the situation.

Turkish Modernization started as early as Selim III, and the main objective was always preserving the state. There are different undertones of this central objective for different groups in different time periods. Sometimes it was to defend the Islam, as the state was the thing that fought off heathen invaders. Sometimes it was to support minority-friendly reforms, as they were revolting and needed to be placated. Reformers tried multiple avenues of action. Ottomanism (citizenship based nationalism) perished in the hills of Rumelia and Pan-Islamism was strangled in deserts of Arabia.

In the end only western oriented Turkish nationalism that worked. This is the founding ideology of the Turkish Republic for a reason. We tried other things. Enchanted by the promises of western imperialists, all our neighbours turned against us. The crimes they commited is too heinous to describe in polite company.

A lot of this "not democracy enough" talk is a clumsy deconstruction of Kemalism. It's a rewrite of history. The populace generally accepts a mild form of Kemalism. Only Kurdish seperatists and religious zealots have problems with the founding ideology. Take a look at this poll. The rest is politicking, corruption and the general entropy of geopolitical landscape.

Which is why "Not democratic enough" is a terrible argument. I'd say the republic is too democratic for its own good. We need some resilient institutions that can stand up to rampant majoritarianism. Democracy is good on paper but...

One way or another, we will get through this. We chased Greeks out, we stood up to the British, we quelled rebellions and rebuilt our homeland. We'll do it again.

 

[Asena_great]

The truth is the Turkish people had been fucked since the Young Turk revolution back in 1908; since then, all of Turkey's political problems have been traced back to one another. Since the young Turks, there have been countless attempts to imitate Europeans without understanding the culture, institutions, and reality that led to the way European states existed the way they did. This was amplified when Ataturk founded the republic and based it on the French 4th republic, an unstable state on the verge of civil war less than 20 years after Ataturk coped its institution for the republic.

never waste an opportunity to shit on Ataturk dont we ?? tell me exactly what was ataturk's institution that you are talking about ?? you better able to answer this question

The consequence of this self-colonising mindset was forcing the population to conform to institutions that were not made to serve them. This is why the governments desired to forge and reshape citizens to meet their ideas of how a country should be. This translated into trying to reshape the population to resemble the desires of the ruling elites of the time; for example, Ataturk and the CHP founders tried to force the citizenry to resemble the European population they grew up alongside, while AKP championed the creation of a Pious population.

Atatürk never forced anyone one on anything. he build base of the nation on secularism republicanism and democracy and give a equal right to every citizen as well as rule of law what you cant do is to force other people into your life style. 2 type of people were against this reforms. one was kurdish tribal leaders ( ağa ) who would live like lords and force their clans into serfdom second group were the again jihadis mainly Kurdish sheiks who would lose all their privilege if the equality for all citizens enforced. any citizens no matter how conservatives they are they are free to practice their religion as long as they dont enforce their life style on other and do not attempt to overthrow the regime or disturbed the rule of law

while AKP championed the creation of a Pious population.

what a ignorent comment mainly made for jerking off your sharia ideas people vote for AKP for 2 reasons

1) weak collation governments. because back in 90s we had collation government made of at least 3 party the largest one had only 19% of the vote if i remember correctly and they never get a long . each collation government collapsed every few month. people were tired of short living collation government and wanted political stability 2003 was the first time 2 party gaining all the vote and entering parliament. beside Erdogan was the guy who lobbied with liberals and said everyone should have free right and open the LGTBQ+ parade in Istanbul

erdogan defending LGBT in 2002 and brought gay parade to Istanbul in 2000s. turkey didnt had such thing before erdogan

2) economy. even though people was fearful of Erdogan at first during 2000s economic improvement really improve the life of ordinary citizens which was result of 2 factor kemal derviş's reform which erdogan and ali babacan took credits for his achievement and the second factor was EU and American investment. they invested large sums of money in exchange for political support which was

1) turkey's support of iraq and afghanistan wars
2) handing over cyprus during 2004 referendum aka Cyprus unification
3) remove the mines from border
4) change of constitution and federalization of turkey aka peace process
5) get ride of army who was opposing west and were against Iraq war as well as any peace process

in exchange they give large investment and they promise to let turkey into EU but after the mines on border cleared and the army removed, they show their true color they remove their investment and help YPG and abandon erdogan to his own fate with millions of afghans, pakistanis and arabs

As such, no government feels subservient to the people's will; to them, the Turkish people are theirs to shape however they please. Turkey's institutions reflect this reality mainly in the electoral system, thus cementing this culture of carelessness, self-aggrandising, and treachery.

before the last election erdogan and bahçeli run on the premise that KK and CHP are in leageth with PKK and if KK become president he will release selahattin demirtaş leader of HDP from prison as KK was promising it to Kurdish voters to win the election ,which BTW it must be banned, and people vote for AKP because of that, however after election Erdogan and bahçeli make a U turn and say they will release öcalan leader of PKK and change the constitution for the federalization of turkey tell me again how this is related to Ataturk's reform as the reform which state democracy which is the will of people for self govern republicanism which means separating of power rule of law by constitution and guarantee right for every citizen ????

 

[Ripley]

The question is however, these days, who is running the military?

A good question and I think we all know the answer after the purge in the ranks of Turkish Military from NCOs to all the way to top brass following the 2015 coup attempt.
However, we also should remember the fact that Turkish military brought it upon itself, in a way, by engaging Turkish political arena and resultingly social life and culture of the people in general, if not on a daily basis.

2007 was the last time Turkish military establishment attempted through another ultimatum to straighten up the political life of Turkey and resulted in something never happened before.
AKP after staying silent for an entire day gave their counter ultimatum, stating that elected ones would go nowhere whereas the appointed ones will continue to serve under people’s representatives.
Love ‘em, hate ‘‘em but that hit the right key there everyone danced to this tune because old fashion reshaping of society by military had to reach its end at one point after five decades. The “yat eşek, kalk eşek” societal restructuring by military ended then and there.

You see, I’ll never forget this rough definition of legitimacy (or should say when does it end) among thousand others.
It went something like this.
Actors involved in any given establishment, be it a governmental agency or even be a private organization, giving in, submitting to one actor’s authority will yield to the said establishment’s legitimacy.
However, as one of the actors pulls off it’s submission, the whole legitimacy damaged or destined to collapse entirely.

That was exactly what I had observed at 2007 counter ultimatum by AKP. Unlike previous numerous attempts, the elected government did not say “şapkamızı alır, gideriz”. Instead, for the first time in Turkish history an elected government said “buck stops here”.

That’s how I saw the Turkish military‘s Praetorian guard role ended and eradicated from Turkish political life. After that, it became one of the actors that was submitting to authority.

A military that lost its power and purged and filled with reactionary religious sects by political power that was elected by the people!

I don’t see this particular military can achieve such a task.

 

[Asena_great]

A good question and I think we all know the answer after the purge in the ranks of Turkish Military from NCOs to all the way to top brass following the 2015 coup attempt.
However, we also should remember the fact that Turkish military brought it upon itself, in a way, by engaging Turkish political arena and resultingly social life and culture of the people in general, if not on a daily basis.

2007 was the last time Turkish military establishment attempted through another ultimatum to straighten up the political life of Turkey and resulted in something never happened before.
AKP after staying silent for an entire day gave their counter ultimatum, stating that elected ones would go nowhere whereas the appointed ones will continue to serve under people’s representatives.
Love ‘em, hate ‘‘em but that hit the right key there everyone danced to this tune because old fashion reshaping of society by military had to reach its end at one point after five decades. The “yat eşek, kalk eşek” societal restructuring by military ended then and there.

You see, I’ll never forget this rough definition of legitimacy (or should say when does it end) among thousand others.
It went something like this.
Actors involved in any given establishment, be it a governmental agency or even be a private organization, giving in, submitting to one actor’s authority will yield to the said establishment’s legitimacy.
However, as one of the actors pulls off it’s submission, the whole legitimacy damaged or destined to collapse entirely.

That was exactly what I had observed at 2007 counter ultimatum by AKP. Unlike previous numerous attempts, the elected government did not say “şapkamızı alır, gideriz”. Instead, for the first time in Turkish history an elected government said “buck stops here”.

That’s how I saw the Turkish military‘s Praetorian guard role ended and eradicated from Turkish political life. After that, it became one of the actors that was submitting to authority.

A military that lost its power and purged and filled with reactionary religious sects by political power that was elected by the people!

I don’t see this particular military can achieve such a task.

your comment is wrong in so many level idk where to start explaining The “yat eşek, kalk eşek” what are you talking about ?? you know nothing about 90s nor 2000s and im tried to post long long post explaining everything