Turkey's entering ww2 Alternative History !

[Asena_great]

misak i milli was the main geopolitical goal of turkish republic during atatürk's era that turkey have followed ! ! ! only hatay were returned to turkey and with atatürk's death mostly forgotten !! im given an alternative time line where turkey perpared for ww2 and enter the war to achive its geopolitical goal !! by late 1943 where germans pushed to carparthan mountins and americans and biritish landed in italy before surrender of italy and bulgaria should be the time turkey joins the war on allied side !!

the problems before i start is the fact that not only turkey didnt had industries and white collier experts but also only 5% of people were illeitrate and even them were educated either by quran and hadith or by military academy !! also turkey didnt had national railway they were owned y forginers and were disconnected moreover atatürk had crippling ottoman debte to deal with + the Orphne generation and maimed and mutalated manpower in ww1

for turkey to enter ww2 Mosul and Kirkuk must be taken by Lausanne treaty even though the oil production was in its infancy it can kick start turkish industrization effort


for industries i will make another post but lets say turkey quickly industrized and produced metals and food + alot of steel and oil which were stratigc recourse !! to pervent german's access to oil biritish probliy would buy all oil production for next 20 years above market price which turkey can use this deal to pressure biritish to license airplane engine in turkey such as mercury viii 830HP which they export to their close alined natural countries

the main supplier of weapons and tach transferrer would be the natural countries mainly czechslovakia netherland and sweden and turkey could leverage its strategic resources to gain license production !! turkey offer them resource in dire situation when german pressure is at it's highest

for airforce netherland can offer

Fokker D.XXI as fighter​

Fokker G1 as close air support and with some modification anti submarine and torpeo plane !!​

fokker D.X.X.I would act as back bone of turkish airforce as fighter plane its decent plane and the one most realistcly be allowed to be produce in turkey as most countries wont allow that !! while fokker g1 which act as heavy fighter with 8 MG and a bomb bay which can carry close to 500kg bomb and a back MG to shoot back at enemy behind the plane ! it can replace some of its MG with autocannon and being used as CAS or modified remove the rare MG and replace it with fuel tank and add torpedo and depth chargers for anti ship and anti submarine opration !! also fokker T.V can act as heavy airplane of turkish airforce for cargo plane, paratrooper carrier, bomber , VIP transport !

for navy like airforce netherland would be the main supplier of ships

some ships could be build in istanbul shipyard and some can be build in netherland to meet the demand of the navy

LT 35

LT38

for tanks turkey's only option is the czechslovakia's LT 35 and LT 38 the latter especially was considered advanced for its time and later used by germanz as Panzer 38 t. these tanks are the only one turkey could realistically hope to get a licence production in home territories ! and must secure it before they are taken over by Germany

 

[Perun]

Interesting topic. Do you have historical OOB for Turkish armed forces for that period (1943.)?

 

[Nilgiri]

misak i milli was the main geopolitical goal of turkish republic during atatürk's era that turkey have followed ! ! ! only hatay were returned to turkey and with atatürk's death mostly forgotten !! im given an alternative time line where turkey perpared for ww2 and enter the war to achive its geopolitical goal !! by late 1943 where germans pushed to carparthan mountins and americans and biritish landed in italy before surrender of italy and bulgaria should be the time turkey joins the war on allied side !!

the problems before i start is the fact that not only turkey didnt had industries and white collier experts but also only 5% of people were illeitrate and even them were educated either by quran and hadith or by military academy !! also turkey didnt had national railway they were owned y forginers and were disconnected moreover atatürk had crippling ottoman debte to deal with + the Orphne generation and maimed and mutalated manpower in ww1

for turkey to enter ww2 Mosul and Kirkuk must be taken by Lausanne treaty even though the oil production was in its infancy it can kick start turkish industrization effort


for industries i will make another post but lets say turkey quickly industrized and produced metals and food + alot of steel and oil which were stratigc recourse !! to pervent german's access to oil biritish probliy would buy all oil production for next 20 years above market price which turkey can use this deal to pressure biritish to license airplane engine in turkey such as mercury viii 830HP which they export to their close alined natural countries

the main supplier of weapons and tach transferrer would be the natural countries mainly czechslovakia netherland and sweden and turkey could leverage its strategic resources to gain license production !! turkey offer them resource in dire situation when german pressure is at it's highest

for airforce netherland can offer

Fokker D.XXI as fighter​

Fokker G1 as close air support and with some modification anti submarine and torpeo plane !!​

View attachment 74807

fokker D.X.X.I would act as back bone of turkish airforce as fighter plane its decent plane and the one most realistcly be allowed to be produce in turkey as most countries wont allow that !! while fokker g1 which act as heavy fighter with 8 MG and a bomb bay which can carry close to 500kg bomb and a back MG to shoot back at enemy behind the plane ! it can replace some of its MG with autocannon and being used as CAS or modified remove the rare MG and replace it with fuel tank and add torpedo and depth chargers for anti ship and anti submarine opration !! also fokker T.V can act as heavy airplane of turkish airforce for cargo plane, paratrooper carrier, bomber , VIP transport !

for navy like airforce netherland would be the main supplier of ships

View attachment 74808

some ships could be build in istanbul shipyard and some can be build in netherland to meet the demand of the navy

LT 35

LT38

for tanks turkey's only option is the czechslovakia's LT 35 and LT 38 the latter especially was considered advanced for its time and later used by germanz as Panzer 38 t. these tanks are the only one turkey could realistically hope to get a licence production in home territories ! and must secure it before they are taken over by Germany

Which window of years are you exactly proposing in this hypothetical/AH?

Also does rest of WW2 go about the way it does largely "as is"? (Because there will be follow up on TR potentially after completion there)

 

[Asena_great]

i put the aims of military equipments now i will focuse on industries !! turkey have 20 years from 1923 to 1943 to be industrialized and be combat ready ! as i previously mention turkey need to own kirkuk and mosul with treaty of Lausanne as well as ottoman debts need to be forgiven !

for a nation to stay in war 3 thing are needed 1 is food second is industry 3rd is fuel !

1st lets take a look at industry. back in time turkey had mainly riffle , ammo as well as armillary factory for military and limited homemade aircraft but they were

kayseri aircraft and engine factory opend by order of atatürk and closed after his death ! this factory and its workers are essential in producing advanced dutch aircraft under license

pilot Vecihi Hürkuş was the first guy in turkey to produced indiginise aircraft in turkey called VECİHİ K-VI

next guy who open aircraft factory was Nuri Demirağ who crated Nu.D-36 aircraft this shows high potential for Turkish aircraft manufacturing

metal working industry need to expaned for prodycing tools for farming and mining as well as manufacturing and constructions expacially for war torn country such as turkey !

next era is brick and cement and glass factories in real timeline turkey opend them later but these are essensal that need to be done in early 1920s !

next is steel productions !

 

[Asena_great]

next is heavy industries that can be constructed by the help of forginers ! first is hydroelectric dams ! these provided waters for farming and electricity for industries ! mainly in the traingle of anakara izmir and istanbul ! at least 2 or 3 dams need to be finished between 1923 to 1932 to provide electricity and expand farming !! ofc roads and railways need to be constructed as well !!

with these the expansion farming mining sectors as well as start manufacturing military equipment by 1936 will be possible !

to make boom in farming turkey need to moved toward machinery especially trucks and tractors with kirkuk and mosul oil the fuel wont be a problem for turkey ! these later will later be useful during war !

ford model F tractor

ford model T car the car that revelutionzed america becuse it was so cheap and good !

ford model TT trucks that change the face of villages in usa

for turkey to license produce these are tricky since countries are protective of their technology rather then ful productions in home maybe partially production + montaging some vehicles with American made parts be possible what is important is to open the factories by early 1930s ! since the plane for millitary production starts from 1936 !

 

[Asena_great]

Interesting topic. Do you have historical OOB for Turkish armed forces for that period (1943.)?

well i dont internet is somehow vage on the topic ! but i know most of the land forces where infintray armed with rifels and arittlary + mechine guns but they had small number of french made tanks for navy mostly ww1 ear destroyers cruisers etc + some new submarine created in istanbul shipyards ! for airforce they had mix of aircraft made by germans and french and biritish + some dutch such as fokker g1 + some turkish made aircraft !

turkey lunching its new submarine from istanbul shipyard

turkish army !

 

[Asena_great]

Which window of years are you exactly proposing in this hypothetical/AH?

well from 1923 to 1943 ! this is the period of industrilization and perparation for ww2 !

Also does rest of WW2 go about the way it does largely "as is"? (Because there will be follow up on TR potentially after completion there)

turkey was natrual country during ww2 same will be in this AH but they will be perparing for war and enter the war in later 1943 when red army pushed germans to Carpathian mountains and usa british landed in italy but before surrendering of bulgaria and italy !