TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Mis_TR_Like]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1948705736973795555

Oh this is awesome. I posted a long time ago about my personal VTOL jet-powered UCAV concept which launches suicide drones.

The great thing about this is you don't risk your own troops, send this bad boy in and let it launch its little minions. Great to see TSK is keen on such a concept.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Does Turkey even need such a Drone?

Before GAZAP and HAYALET, I would have been excited for it, but since those two bombs can do the same thing as a MOAB and MOP but be used by fighters, is there a purpose for an Anka 4 strategic bomber?

You will have to send your manned jets to drop the NEB class bombs literally on top of the target to have the right effect. Stand off bombing is not an option. Also there is a lot of HKG class precision bombs in our inventory. To fire these and Gazap on to ground targets you need to get within enemy HSS ranges. A stealth deep strike bomber, especially an unmanned one, is the ideal solution.

 

[No Name]

You will have to send your manned jets to drop the NEB class bombs literally on top of the target to have the right effect. Stand off bombing is not an option. Also there is a lot of HKG class precision bombs in our inventory. To fire these and Gazap on to ground targets you need to get within enemy HSS ranges. A stealth deep strike bomber, especially an unmanned one, is the ideal solution.

I think that makes sense.

Will any variants of the Anka 4 also serve as a tanker or Missile boat? Or will the bomber design limit its potential uses?

 

[Zafer]

A side note: Such a plane can very well be used to launch low earth orbit space payload. Like 100-500 kg payloads can be launched with such a plane. This is feasible because you don't need range with it and all the carrying capacity can go to the rocket that will carry the payload. See the foreign project in the same category.

https://www.science.org/content/article/rocket-launching-drone-ready-take-satellites-orbit
https://www.defenceturk.net/uydu-firlatici-otonom-hava-araci-ravn-x

 

[Strong AI]

My guess is KE will take off from TCG Anadolu (only take off, no landing). What are your guesses?

First, reminding that they are in the brotherly homeland, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, Bayraktar said the following:

"Where will we be on September 17–21? We're expecting everyone in Istanbul. But before that, we have another surprise. Where will we be on August 30? At TEKNOFEST Blue Homeland, at the Istanbul Shipyard, God willing, we will witness our youth competing with the heroes of the Blue Homeland, the descendants of Barbaros Hayrettin, and with their creations that will leave a mark on high technology and ensure our freedom and independence in the Blue Homeland. The TCG Anadolu will be there. Our Kızılelma will be on top of the TCG Anadolu. Alongside it, the Bayraktar TB3 will be there. Our national frigates will be present as well. And we’ll even have a big surprise. Likewise, we’re expecting all of Yalova at TEKNOFEST Blue Homeland."

Selçuk Bayraktar: TEKNOFEST kuşağıyla ülkemiz tam bağımsız olma yolunda bir adım daha öteye gidecek

TEKNOFEST Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Bayraktar, "TEKNOFEST kuşağının dünyaya damgasını vuracak yüksek teknoloji işlere imza atmasıyla ve milletimizi desteğiyle ülkemiz tam bağımsız ve müreffeh olma yolunda bir adım daha öteye gidecek." dedi. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

 

[Anmdt]

My guess is KE will take off from TCG Anadolu (only take off, no landing). What are your guesses?

First, reminding that they are in the brotherly homeland, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, Bayraktar said the following:

"Where will we be on September 17–21? We're expecting everyone in Istanbul. But before that, we have another surprise. Where will we be on August 30? At TEKNOFEST Blue Homeland, at the Istanbul Shipyard, God willing, we will witness our youth competing with the heroes of the Blue Homeland, the descendants of Barbaros Hayrettin, and with their creations that will leave a mark on high technology and ensure our freedom and independence in the Blue Homeland. The TCG Anadolu will be there. Our Kızılelma will be on top of the TCG Anadolu. Alongside it, the Bayraktar TB3 will be there. Our national frigates will be present as well. And we’ll even have a big surprise. Likewise, we’re expecting all of Yalova at TEKNOFEST Blue Homeland."

Selçuk Bayraktar: TEKNOFEST kuşağıyla ülkemiz tam bağımsız olma yolunda bir adım daha öteye gidecek

TEKNOFEST Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Bayraktar, "TEKNOFEST kuşağının dünyaya damgasını vuracak yüksek teknoloji işlere imza atmasıyla ve milletimizi desteğiyle ülkemiz tam bağımsız ve müreffeh olma yolunda bir adım daha öteye gidecek." dedi. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

@AlterUnd knows - or has an idea about this surprise (i guess). But i am not sure if he would like to leak that, and as far as i am told it is related to Naval Programs.

 

[Strong AI]

Developed by TUSAŞ, Şimşek K took off from the ground for the first time using a rocket-assisted takeoff system (RATO), gaining the capability to be used both as a target drone and in kamikaze missions.

🚀 Savunma sanayiimiz, kritik kabiliyetlerine bir yenisini daha ekledi. TUSAŞ tarafından geliştirilen Şimşek K, roket de…

Haluk Görgün - NSosyal

sosyal.teknofest.app

 

[UkroTurk]

Developed by TUSAŞ, Şimşek K took off from the ground for the first time using a rocket-assisted takeoff system (RATO), gaining the capability to be used both as a target drone and in kamikaze missions.

🚀 Savunma sanayiimiz, kritik kabiliyetlerine bir yenisini daha ekledi. TUSAŞ tarafından geliştirilen Şimşek K, roket de…

Haluk Görgün - NSosyal

sosyal.teknofest.app

If my memory is not mistaken , I proposed here rapid and stealth jet powered "ground attack" UAV from Şimşek. For instance Şimşek UAV with UMTAS missiles.



Another purpose could be Tactical use of Rapid Infiltration behind enemy lines, gathering intelligence.

 

[Strong AI]

BayraktarTB2T-AI
Altitude Record in Its Own Class: 40,023 Feet
High Altitude System Identification and Performance Test

#BayraktarTB2T-AI ✈️🧠🚀 ✈️ Kendi Sınıfında İrtifa Rekoru: 40.023 Feet ✅ Yüksek İrtifa Sistem Tanımlama ve Performans Tes…

BAYKAR - NSosyal

sosyal.teknofest.app

 

[TheInsider]

Developed by TUSAŞ, Şimşek K took off from the ground for the first time using a rocket-assisted takeoff system (RATO), gaining the capability to be used both as a target drone and in kamikaze missions.

🚀 Savunma sanayiimiz, kritik kabiliyetlerine bir yenisini daha ekledi. TUSAŞ tarafından geliştirilen Şimşek K, roket de…

Haluk Görgün - NSosyal

sosyal.teknofest.app

This product should be renamed as Şahin K (Falcon) .

 

[Samba]

BayraktarTB2T-AI
Altitude Record in Its Own Class: 40,023 Feet
High Altitude System Identification and Performance Test

#BayraktarTB2T-AI ✈️🧠🚀 ✈️ Kendi Sınıfında İrtifa Rekoru: 40.023 Feet ✅ Yüksek İrtifa Sistem Tanımlama ve Performans Tes…

BAYKAR - NSosyal

sosyal.teknofest.app

Is tb2t ai powered by in house produced engine?

 

[Strong AI]

Is tb2t ai powered by in house produced engine?

I think they would mention it, if it was their own engine.

 

[Zafer]

I think they would mention it, if it was their own engine.

Most likely it is, as they mentioned turbo engine which identifies their engine with turbo. I believe they wouldn't flight test with foreign engine anymore. It is the engine rather than other aspects that brings the altitude record 0f 40023 feet / 12192 meter which is an altitude passenger planes fly at.

Edit: engine has twin alternators, so it is the new engine unless the old engine has an additional alternator.which is unlikely

 

[mTT]

Most likely it is, as they mentioned turbo engine which identifies their engine with turbo. I believe they wouldn't flight test with foreign engine anymore. It is the engine rather than other aspects that brings the altitude record 0f 40023 feet / 12192 meter which is an altitude passenger planes fly at.

Edit: engine has twin alternators, so it is the new engine unless the old engine has an additional alternator.which is unlikely

View attachment 77131

TM100 Engine

 

[Yasar_TR]

Bayraktar TB2 Flies with the Indigenous TM100 Engine | TURDEF

Baykar’s Bayraktar TB2 flew with the indigenously developed TM100 internal combustion engine, developed as an alternative to foreign-supplied engines.

turdef.com

According to above article it is the indigenous TM100 engine it flew with.

But I find it wrong to publish these so-called record figures. These tests are needed. Yes. It gives the technical staff valuable information about the plane’s capabilities. But in real world with full load (150kg) the standard TB2 won’t go any higher than 5500metres in order to stay long enough to accomplish it’s tasks. How much more “usable” altitude this engine gives is another point of discussion.
Any improvement is a plus point. It is high time Baykar were to come up with a stealthy version of this plane. You can only live off of your past accomplishments for so long. The battlefield is evolving. Baykar needs to do the same.

 

[Turkic]

It is high time Baykar were to come up with a stealthy version of this plane.

That's what I've been expecting from our industry for years. Did we ever have any news regarding this?

Edit: I'm not asking for a fully stealth uav. Just minimizing the RCS with the same design.

 

[boredaf]

It is high time Baykar were to come up with a stealthy version of this plane. You can only live off of your past accomplishments for so long. The battlefield is evolving. Baykar needs to do the same.

I disagree, what TB2 needs is not a new design, especially since trying to make it more stealthy while using propellers is an exercise in futility. On top of that, it's main attraction is the fact that it is cheap, you get the best bang for your buck ratio with it. Making a stealth one just takes that away.

What it needs is munitions with longer range which we are already developing, like Eren, for example. 100 km is a great range, keeps it away from the range of most anti-air systems and since it is a small drone (comparatively) it should be hard to lock onto at that range even for better radars.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I disagree, what TB2 needs is not a new design, especially since trying to make it more stealthy while using propellers is an exercise in futility. On top of that, it's main attraction is the fact that it is cheap, you get the best bang for your buck ratio with it. Making a stealth one just takes that away.

What it needs is munitions with longer range which we are already developing, like Eren, for example. 100 km is a great range, keeps it away from the range of most anti-air systems and since it is a small drone (comparatively) it should be hard to lock onto at that range even for better radars.

Good idea!
But Eren is essentially a turbojet powered loitering munition. So it is not going to be cheap. TB2 made its name with MAM-L, which is a Lumtas missile sans rocket motor. It took out enemy armour right left and centre costing minimum to the user, devastated the receiver. It did that by flying close to targets (16-30km) and usually below cloud cover. Hence took advantage of total air superiority and EW assistance given to it. Of course it’s totally unexpected extra slow speed and size made it all possible.

You are correct. It is near impossible to create a stealthy aircraft when they use propellers. But it is not totally impossible. There are helicopters that are designed to be stealthy. Propellers can be shielded like a fan on a turbofan is one way. Increasing number of propeller blades has also proven useful. Propeller material can be made from radar absorbing substances. Plane can be a flying wing or a delta wing design whereby at least its frontal projection is stealthy by masking propellers. It is Baykar’s job to come up with something..

I was thinking of something like twice the size of Super Simsek with three times it’s weight that can stay long enough to make its worth. At the same time cheap to run.

Stand off munitions are not cheap. Even the trlg122 (50+km range);and trlg230 (150+km range) are not going to be that cheap.

TB2 is not enjoying the initial success it had against Russian armour and AD systems. Drastic renovations and design input will be needed to revamp Baykar’s name soon. Like most tech TB2 needs to evolve too.

 

[MonteCarlo]

Imo main job of a MALE drone is recon then it is to provide air support in places you have the air superiority be it by exploiting the gaps in enemy AD or operating in areas you have total air superiority. The success TB-2 had against Russian systems was an anomaly and should not be regarded as its main function albeit it can be replicated if certain conditions are met(EW support, good intel etc). This does not mean it is a bad or outdated concept but trying to shoehorn it into the role it was used in Libya, Syria and Azerbaijan in a peer to peer modern combat would be ineffective. Helicopter is a good comparison in that regard T-129's are extremely useful in counter-terrorism operations however no one would expect it to operate in contested air space and take out enemy AD. It is better to leave TB-2 as is or make it more useful in stand-off roles by integrating more sensors and long range missiles and give the task of operating in contested air space and gaining air superiority(which should be top priority anyway) to actual fighter jets.

 

[boredaf]

But Eren is essentially a turbojet powered loitering munition. So it is not going to be cheap. TB2 made its name with MAM-L, which is a Lumtas missile sans rocket motor. It took out enemy armour right left and centre costing minimum to the user, devastated the receiver. It did that by flying close to targets (16-30km) and usually below cloud cover. Hence took advantage of total air superiority and EW assistance given to it. Of course it’s totally unexpected extra slow speed and size made it all possible.

Stand off munitions are not cheap. Even the trlg122 (50+km range);and trlg230 (150+km range) are not going to be that cheap.

It would definitely be expensive, no doubt about that, but any scenario where a TB2 user would need to use more expensive munitions wouldn't be the norm. These would only be used in specific cases, possibly even as an alternative to more complex stand-off capabilities.

For a small country, TB2 with Eren or UAV-122 could be a game changer in itself. For us, Eren or Kemankes (or another long range missile/loitering munition) could be used to create a swarm scenario against enemy air defences, targeting them with multiple smaller munitions instead of a big one. After all, you don't have to absolutely obliterate stuff like radars to take them out of the war, at least for a while.

And, I think cost of these systems, drones and munitions, should be calculated by the targets they are used against, especially in a war. An Eren might cost hundreds of thousands but if you can destroy/disable a radar or some other strategic target it would be well worth the price. I'd even argue even if you take out a tank (in the right place) or a fuel truck or something it would still be worth it.

You are correct. It is near impossible to create a stealthy aircraft when they use propellers. But it is not totally impossible. There are helicopters that are designed to be stealthy. Propellers can be shielded like a fan on a turbofan is one way. Increasing number of propeller blades has also proven useful. Propeller material can be made from radar absorbing substances. Plane can be a flying wing or a delta wing design whereby at least its frontal projection is stealthy by masking propellers. It is Baykar’s job to come up with something..

I was thinking of something like twice the size of Super Simsek with three times it’s weight that can stay long enough to make its worth. At the same time cheap to run.

They might do it, of course, (I never even considered propellers can be shielded, for example), but given that Super Simsek has, what, 50 kg highest payload capacity, twice the size would still be too small imo to be worth the trouble. And I'm not sure how cheap that would be, even TB2 goes for 5 million, something with that specs wouldn't be close to that I don't think.