TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

Yasar_TR

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I expect to see a KE onlyfans video before we actually see an inner weapon bay missile firing video at this point.
They are talking about KE joining the inventory early this year. Yet this “stealthy” aircraft yet to carry munition and test firing it from its internal weapon bays.
This is not a cheap piece of equipment that can be discarded. All munitions must be carried in its IWB if it needs to stay stealthy.
It is supposed to carry it’s a2a BVR missiles and it‘s air to ground munition like SOM-J in it’s IWB.
It is high time they tested that capability before they deliver these birds to the airforce.

Mind you, same goes for the Anka-3 too!


EDIT

Just been reminded about “Tolun” firing from Anka 3
So Anka-3 is on the right track.
 
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boredaf

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They are talking about KE joining the inventory early this year. Yet this “stealthy” aircraft yet to carry munition and test firing it from its internal weapon bays.
This is not a cheap piece of equipment that can be discarded. All munitions must be carried in its IWB if it needs to stay stealthy.
It is supposed to carry it’s a2a BVR missiles and it‘s air to ground munition like SOM-J in it’s IWB.
It is high time they tested that capability before they deliver these birds to the airforce.

Mind you, same goes for the Anka-3 too!
Couldn't agree more mate. Sure, they can carry long range stuff on the pylons attack from stand-off distance yadayadayada but the main purpose of having both KE and Anka-3 is for them to have low observability, otherwise the only thing that is separating them from Akıncı is their speed because Akıncı can carry as much as either one of them as well.
 

Yasar_TR

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Couldn't agree more mate. Sure, they can carry long range stuff on the pylons attack from stand-off distance yadayadayada but the main purpose of having both KE and Anka-3 is for them to have low observability, otherwise the only thing that is separating them from Akıncı is their speed because Akıncı can carry as much as either one of them as well.
It is not an easy task to use Internal Weapons Bay to fire missiles. There are various technical issues that need to be addressed.
The primary issues stem from complex, unsteady aerodynamics during transition from the enclosed bay conditions to the free airstream conditions. This is even harder in supersonic state.

Some of the Aerodynamic and Launch Challenges

Complex and Unsteady Flow: When doors open at high speeds, they introduce complex air flow, including shock waves, which create an unstable, turbulent environment for the missile.

Aerodynamic Interference: Strong interference between the aircraft and the separating missile, particularly in supersonic flight, can cause unpredictable trajectories and threaten plane’s safety.

Aeroelastic Effects: Due to the high speed and force of ejection, elastic deformation of the missile (and the aircraft wing) can significantly affect the launch, changing the missile's attitude angles (pitch, yaw, roll) and potentially leading to unsafe separations.

Ejection Requirements: Missiles must be forcibly ejected (using pneumatic or hydraulic rams) rather than just dropped to ensure they clear the boundary layer and do not re-impact the aircraft.

Missile Design : missiles designed for internal weapon bays must adhere to very specific, stringent, and often custom-tailored criteria that differ significantly from those carried on external wing pylons.

But nothing is easy in this world. If it were everyone would be doing it. Besides; Kaan engineers will have to address these difficulties too. So it would be a good rehearsal exercise to fit that capability to these aircraft.
 

MonteCarlo

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They are talking about KE joining the inventory early this year. Yet this “stealthy” aircraft yet to carry munition and test firing it from its internal weapon bays.
This is not a cheap piece of equipment that can be discarded. All munitions must be carried in its IWB if it needs to stay stealthy.
It is supposed to carry it’s a2a BVR missiles and it‘s air to ground munition like SOM-J in it’s IWB.
It is high time they tested that capability before they deliver these birds to the airforce.

Mind you, same goes for the Anka-3 too!
I agree that iwb test are crucial for Kızılelma to be considered operationally ready. However I wouldn't subject to 2-3 Kızılelma's being delivered(all with Murad, one with Karat and one with Toygun at least) to hvkk test squadron without bring able to carry any weapons at all let alone bring able to carry it it's internal bay. I think there are several why Kızılelma entering inventory early is beneficial:

1. Kızılelma is in a unique position that there is no set doctrine in the world for a vehicle in its class. It will take a long time for air force to smooth out the details about its use case and incorporate it to the chain of command.

2. Creating threat libraries for Murad is an hard and laborious task that neither Baykar or Aselsan can do by themselves. Under HVKK Kızılelma can actually fly over the Syria border for example and gather SAR signatures of tanks and APC's used there

3. In the same vein getting real world long wave ir signatures of fighters like F-16V or Rafale for Karat is something you can only do when Kızılelma is in Hvkk inventory and it can perform these operations without any risk in peace time

4. We desperately need modern AESA radars in the air even if it can't carry missiles in the internal bay Kızılelma is way more capable of long range detection compared to our current f-16's

5 - Training of maintance crews and establishing the infrastructure for maintance is another process that takes a long time. Earlier we start the better.

6 - creating MUM-T mission profiles and laying out the rules for manned unmanned formation flight is another necessity that will take a long time.

In short even if Kızılelma with fully functional IWB was delivered today we would need to spend a lot of time going through these preparation stages. It is much better to start working on these things in parallel to Kızılelma's tests so when all the test are done it can be fully operational in a shortest possible time.
 
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Sanchez

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They are talking about KE joining the inventory early this year. Yet this “stealthy” aircraft yet to carry munition and test firing it from its internal weapon bays.
This is not a cheap piece of equipment that can be discarded. All munitions must be carried in its IWB if it needs to stay stealthy.
It is supposed to carry it’s a2a BVR missiles and it‘s air to ground munition like SOM-J in it’s IWB.
It is high time they tested that capability before they deliver these birds to the airforce.

Mind you, same goes for the Anka-3 too!


EDIT

Just been reminded about “Tolun” firing from Anka 3
So Anka-3 is on the right track.
Both Anka-3 and KE are developed using company funds, they are not SSB or MSB projects. Nothing wrong with incurring few of them each into service to fund further development and get to know the platforms during actual testing by the air force.

Both platforms still need some more time to cook, but they are getting there. I don't see IWB as a dealbreaker for platforms as young as these.

KE now flies with "FEWS-U"
 

mehmed beg

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I believe that it is very useful for Siper batteries crews to assess the performance of their radars in dealing with the small stealthy objects.
And I am sure that the findings of Kizilelma stealth capabilities are already passed to KAAN design team.
 

Tonyukuk

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Both Anka-3 and KE are developed using company funds, they are not SSB or MSB projects. Nothing wrong with incurring few of them each into service to fund further development and get to know the platforms during actual testing by the air force.

Both platforms still need some more time to cook, but they are getting there. I don't see IWB as a dealbreaker for platforms as young as these.

KE now flies with "FEWS-U"
What's FEWS-U in English?
 

Sanchez

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Fighter Electronic Warfare System it was originally developed for Özgür modernisation project I think
Yes, FEWS is the Fighter Electronic Warfare System; it's being developed for Özgür. -U must mean Unmanned; so Fighter Electronic Warfare System-Unmanned
 

Yasar_TR

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Both Anka-3 and KE are developed using company funds, they are not SSB or MSB projects. Nothing wrong with incurring few of them each into service to fund further development and get to know the platforms during actual testing by the air force.

Both platforms still need some more time to cook, but they are getting there. I don't see IWB as a dealbreaker for platforms as young as these.

KE now flies with "FEWS-U"
Bro,
Testing and integrating is one thing; But to accept a fighter jet in to inventory means it is ready to go out in to battlefield. Currently a number of TB3s are operating from TCG Anadolu. But they are still being tested by Baykar and are still being initiated to be full fighting tools of the part of Anadolu. When a full complement of those UCAVs are on board that ship, that is when they are truly in the operational inventory. (By the way, the NATO exercise has given them fantastic opportunity and testing ground to prove

Same goes for KE. Baykar hasn’t completed the maturation process of the KE yet. If I remember correctly, they are supposed to deliver 6 of those jets to the Airforce this year. They won’t be part of the operational inventory until all particulars of the jet is in working order.
What makes KE so special is it‘s low observability. Without it it is not a big deal.
I mean, look at the ships we build. Even after delivery to the Navy, it takes up to a year before they accept it in to the inventory as fully operational.

I understand and appreciate what you and @MonteCarlo are saying. But these planes have been flying and weapons testing for quite sometime now. I am just as anxious as many here, to see these “low-observable” planes to make use of their primary capability.
 

Sanchez

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But to accept a fighter jet in to inventory means it is ready to go out in to battlefield.
I don't really agree with this. That process is long and have many layers. Air force by its nature is different than the navy. Air force will take drones into service; they will be IOC later.

I also don't really think IWB is a necessity to take them into service. They will still have many qualities we will like even with reduced lower visibility characteristics.
 

Yasar_TR

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I don't really agree with this. That process is long and have many layers. Air force by its nature is different than the navy. Air force will take drones into service; they will be IOC later.

I also don't really think IWB is a necessity to take them into service. They will still have many qualities we will like even with reduced lower visibility characteristics.
We will have to agree to disagree then.

It is an accepted form that;

A jet fighter is considered ready to be part of the operational inventory when it achieves Initial Operational Capability (IOC). This is a formal, high-level military milestone indicating that a sufficient number of aircraft, trained personnel, and support infrastructure (maintenance, training simulators, logistics) are available to deploy and conduct specific combat missions.

Beyond this it can not be classified as being in inventory. Whether it be drones, aircraft, trainers, ships or tanks . They are just deadweights being ready to be suitable for fighting.

A naval ship is generally considered ready to be part of the active inventory upon commissioning, which signifies it has passed sea trials, met construction milestones, and is officially accepted for service by the navy.

A battle tank is considered ready to be part of an official military inventory when it has passed rigorous inspection, testing, and acceptance procedures, ensuring it is fully operational and compliant with the military's technical standards
 
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