Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[Madokafc]

Indonesian Navy receives first-ever locally assembled submarine​

by Gabriel Dominguez



The Indonesian Navy (Tentara Nasional Indonesia – Angkatan Laut: TNI-AL) has taken delivery of the third and final Nagapasa (DSME 209/1400)-class diesel-electric submarine (SSK) that it ordered in 2011.

Named Alugoro (with pennant number 405), the 61.2 m-long boat was handed over by state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL Indonesia in a ceremony held on 17 March at the company’s facilities in Surabaya that was presided over by Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto.

[IMG alt="
The TNI-AL took delivery of its third Nagapasa-class SSK in a ceremony held on 17 March at the facilities of state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL in Surabaya.
Alugoro
is the first-ever SSK to be assembled in Indonesia.
(Indonesian MoD)"]https://www.janes.com/images/defaul...3921423-jdw-11158.jpg?sfvrsn=d621f70a_2[/IMG]
The TNI-AL took delivery of its third Nagapasa-class SSK in a ceremony held on 17 March at the facilities of state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL in Surabaya. Alugoro is the first-ever SSK to be assembled in Indonesia. (Indonesian MoD)
Alugoro, which was launched in April 2019, is the first-ever SSK to be assembled in Indonesia. The construction was done in collaboration with engineers from South Korean shipbuilder Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering (DSME) under a technology transfer arrangement.

First-of-class KRI Nagapasa (403), which was commissioned in August 2017, and second-of-class KRI Ardadedali (404), which entered service in April 2018, were both built at DSME’s Okpo shipyard on South Korea’s Geoje Island.

The submarines are part of a KRW1.3 trillion (USD1.15 billion) contract signed between DSME and the Indonesian Ministry of Defense in December 2011.

In 2019 Jakarta signed a contract with DSME for three follow-on boats. However, as Janes reported, Indonesian defence planners began rethinking that decision in April 2020 and are still considering several options with regards to the country’s submarine programme, including terminating the contract with DSME.

Indonesian Navy receives first-ever locally assembled submarine

The Indonesian Navy (Tentara Nasional Indonesia – Angkatan Laut: TNI-AL) has taken delivery of the third and final Nagapasa (DSME 209/1400)-class diesel-electric...

www.janes.com

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1373136834797006848

 

[Stuka Dive]

IF... IF... it still does, then there is no point to paying anything further for anything related to KF-X. The Chang Bogo should be enough to ease the butt hurt.

The way I see it, it's far better option to bulk buying from (Scorpene, Rafale, etc) and get some lucrative off set deals out of them in return.

Don forget to include Mistral-class Amphibious Assault Ship, wonder if we got the full license of it. Would become a good big-bro for Makassar-class LPDs too....

 

[Anmdt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1373136834797006848

Slamming at that sea state (2) is not really cool though.. it just looks visually cool.

 

[R4duga]

wow , the french are really working hard with this .

https://www.facebook.com/HumasPTPAL/posts/1618373901666423

 

[Madokafc]

wow , the french are really working hard with this .

https://www.facebook.com/HumasPTPAL/posts/1618373901666423

They are looking for possible Submarine deal in near future

 

[whatintarnation]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1374691751110189058

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1374455715700514824

KRI Sultan Iskandar Muda in the Red Sea

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375266209893998594

 

[Madokafc]

First Cavalry regiment of Marine corps

 

[trishna_amrta]

Prabowo Temui Menhan Inggris, Bahas Kerja Sama Pertahanan

Dahnil mengatakan kunjungan itu dilakukan dalam rangka meningkatkan kerja sama bilateral di bidang pertahanan RI-Inggris.

nasional.kompas.com

OMG... OMG... it's the Arrowhead 140

And that's folk is called "ilmu cucoklogi" aka just another logical fallacy by posting what may be related or not related news article and making correlation to something else

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375417291723079682

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Prabowo Temui Menhan Inggris, Bahas Kerja Sama Pertahanan

Dahnil mengatakan kunjungan itu dilakukan dalam rangka meningkatkan kerja sama bilateral di bidang pertahanan RI-Inggris.

nasional.kompas.com

OMG... OMG... it's the Arrowhead 140

And that's folk is called "ilmu cucoklogi" aka just another logical fallacy by posting what may be related or not related news article and making correlation to something else

Or perhaps some portion of used Airplane.

Behind curtain such deal to push Brits presence in SCS also could be occure.

 

[Madokafc]

Prabowo Temui Menhan Inggris, Bahas Kerja Sama Pertahanan

Dahnil mengatakan kunjungan itu dilakukan dalam rangka meningkatkan kerja sama bilateral di bidang pertahanan RI-Inggris.

nasional.kompas.com

OMG... OMG... it's the Arrowhead 140

And that's folk is called "ilmu cucoklogi" aka just another logical fallacy by posting what may be related or not related news article and making correlation to something else

There is a lot of Indonesian Armed Forces system come from British, we are currently Operated Bung Tomo class, Hawk aircraft, Starstreak, Scorpion tanks, Land Rover Defender, and even some Oldies like Saracen and other.

 

[Madokafc]

 

[Anmdt]

Prabowo Temui Menhan Inggris, Bahas Kerja Sama Pertahanan

Dahnil mengatakan kunjungan itu dilakukan dalam rangka meningkatkan kerja sama bilateral di bidang pertahanan RI-Inggris.

nasional.kompas.com

OMG... OMG... it's the Arrowhead 140

And that's folk is called "ilmu cucoklogi" aka just another logical fallacy by posting what may be related or not related news article and making correlation to something else

Actually it is time for indonesia to own a design to work on and carry out all necessary modifications, selection of suite, weapons, integration of them and managing the entire process despite of buying some of the parts from abroad.
This would provide a major know-how and companies who learns how to integrate may later start to work on those parts too (electronics etc).
Iver Huitfeldt was perfect chance even if left in design stage, the platform is highly similar with arrowhead and if Indonesia owns the design as planned with the newly developed frigate from IH, it would provide a base design to work on.
Rest of it will be challenging as well, but at least within a decade indonesia would be at a position to smoothly set requirements, set up shedules and design anything needed and managing whole progress of the acquisition including subsystems.

I still wonder why looking for someone to offer something but not coming up with a design and telling "i want this".

 

[Madokafc]

Actually it is time for indonesia to own a design to work on and carry out all necessary modifications, selection of suite, weapons, integration of them and managing the entire process despite of buying some of the parts from abroad.
This would provide a major know-how and companies who learns how to integrate may later start to work on those parts too (electronics etc).
Iver Huitfeldt was perfect chance even if left in design stage, the platform is highly similar with arrowhead and if Indonesia owns the design as planned with the newly developed frigate from IH, it would provide a base design to work on.
Rest of it will be challenging as well, but at least within a decade indonesia would be at a position to smoothly set requirements, set up shedules and design anything needed and managing whole progress of the acquisition including subsystems.

I still wonder why looking for someone to offer something but not coming up with a design and telling "i want this".

I wish that too, the first major efforts of building significant major combatant warships in Indonesia is for SIGMA 10514 class, in which left many salt during the process and aftermath. But as i said far before, Indonesia should do what South Korean and Turkey done decades ago, by first acquire offset for many of the sub system first (like Engine blocks, Naval radar, Naval gun, air defense radar, ECM, ESM and so on) by secured major deal for Major platform like warships or fighter (Like Turkey Barbaros class or South Korean Pohang class) and doing the negotiation one by one. And for the next efforts i hope they can negotiate much better compared to SIGMA deal yesterday, though i am apreciate the offset of CMS along with installation of other Tacticos components in which benefitted PT LEN greatly as shown by their capability to do much of independen projects lately.

 

[Anmdt]

I wish that too, the first major efforts of building significant major combatant warships in Indonesia is for SIGMA 10514 class, in which left many salt during the process and aftermath. But as i said far before, Indonesia should do what South Korean and Turkey done decades ago, by first acquire offset for many of the sub system first (like Engine blocks, Naval radar, Naval gun, air defense radar, ECM, ESM and so on) by secured major deal for Major platform like warships or fighter (Like Turkey Barbaros class or South Korean Pohang class) and doing the negotiation one by one. And for the next efforts i hope they can negotiate much better compared to SIGMA deal yesterday, though i am apreciate the offset of CMS along with installation of other Tacticos components in which benefitted PT LEN greatly as shown by their capability to do much of independen projects lately.

I am actually surprised, danish terma has offered a lot, they are rather ignored.
Danish OMT has offered a lot, they are again ignored.

These two should have been top partners with what they have been offering, Iver Huitfeld project should have had a higher priority than the remaining to be completed in much shorter time, since in that indonesia would actually own a design with IP rights free to do any modification, a full design freely to be distributed among ship designers, something interns can look at and do brain excersise. Later any kind of modifications can be done if necessary by decision of again the authority, an indonesian company or even given to a foreigner subcontractor (let it be OMT, Korean Daewoo, Japanes HHI or smaller design companies abroad)
While BUMN or any other company maybe act as a middle man , major contractor (like Turkish STM) to handle remaining contracts with providers (engine, sensor selections as desired, weapons as desired, anything as desired)

My point is, indonesia shouldn't sit on table with a shipbuilding company to get more ToT, but rather that should be done for subsystems with OEM, while the ship should be available through know-how from IH.
I know this may cause future ships to resemble each being based on Iver Huitfeldt but at least 10 years later there would be sufficient know-how to make a unique design. Or this would could at least %50 more, take longer time maybe +1-1.5 years per project.

This is done for makassar class, korea has managed first few ships(or the other LPD) and now everything is overseen by Indonesia in majority. I know makassar is a lot simple compared to a frigate in terms of sensors and softwares but still it makes one step ahead reachable.

When Turkey and Korea got into that business there were 5-6 countries who could design and build warships so there wasn't a great offer, but the best to pull off was local production (80s), and getting personnel as much as possible into the projects, send them to offices using "contacts" , forcibly, sometimes semi-legally gain the know-how. (This is rather for Turkey's part but i can say it has been challenging for Korea too)
+Korea had a special levarage, while Turkey played out being a loyal customer of Germany in addition to having a proper background in shipbuilding, it wasn't challenging to grow capable engineers to handle know-how and even work at foreign companies en masse.

Nowadays the number has been doubled, offers are greater, technology is far more advanced and it takes less time to learn or do something compared to the past.

I know there are some roadmaps but instead of focusing to being able to build a submarine entirely ,but still licensed, it is more crucial to be able to set a design (even if not from scratch from a base design) and manage the acquisition progress, manage the project, procurement of subsystems and integration.
This is harder for a submarine (nearly impossible), but achievable for surface combatant.

 

[Madokafc]

I am actually surprised, danish terma has offered a lot, they are rather ignored.
Danish OMT has offered a lot, they are again ignored.

These two should have been top partners with what they have been offering, Iver Huitfeld project should have had a higher priority than the remaining to be completed in much shorter time, since in that indonesia would actually own a design with IP rights free to do any modification, a full design freely to be distributed among ship designers, something interns can look at and do brain excersise. Later any kind of modifications can be done if necessary by decision of again the authority, an indonesian company or even given to a foreigner subcontractor (let it be OMT, Korean Daewoo, Japanes HHI or smaller design companies abroad)
While BUMN or any other company maybe act as a middle man , major contractor (like Turkish STM) to handle remaining contracts with providers (engine, sensor selections as desired, weapons as desired, anything as desired)

My point is, indonesia shouldn't sit on table with a shipbuilding company to get more ToT, but rather that should be done for subsystems with OEM, while the ship should be available through know-how from IH.
I know this may cause future ships to resemble each being based on Iver Huitfeldt but at least 10 years later there would be sufficient know-how to make a unique design. Or this would could at least %50 more, take longer time maybe +1-1.5 years per project.

This is done for makassar class, korea has managed first few ships(or the other LPD) and now everything is overseen by Indonesia in majority. I know makassar is a lot simple compared to a frigate in terms of sensors and softwares but still it makes one step ahead reachable.

When Turkey and Korea got into that business there were 5-6 countries who could design and build warships so there wasn't a great offer, but the best to pull off was local production (80s), and getting personnel as much as possible into the projects, send them to offices using "contacts" , forcibly, sometimes semi-legally gain the know-how. (This is rather for Turkey's part but i can say it has been challenging for Korea too)
+Korea had a special levarage, while Turkey played out being a loyal customer of Germany in addition to having a proper background in shipbuilding, it wasn't challenging to grow capable engineers to handle know-how and even work at foreign companies en masse.

Nowadays the number has been doubled, offers are greater, technology is far more advanced and it takes less time to learn or do something compared to the past.

I know there are some roadmaps but instead of focusing to being able to build a submarine entirely ,but still licensed, it is more crucial to be able to set a design (even if not from scratch from a base design) and manage the acquisition progress, manage the project, procurement of subsystems and integration.
This is harder for a submarine (nearly impossible), but achievable for surface combatant.

To be Frank, it is not all related with how much offset the OEM provided, but which one who can provided the largest kickback for the relevant parties including the Shipyard companies upper level management, that's why some dubious Shipyard designer still persist on their offer, and in turn Made them had a long time cooperation with us. Indonesian "way" is more complex and the red tape along with corruption still very pervacive at many level of government management and industry complex (either private owned or government owned) such practice is very known by long term Indonesian partner like Netherland and Japan.

If Indonesia stick themselves to the road map the government had set since REPELITA 3 in the early 1970's during oil boom era, we should have the same capability on par with South Korean or Turkey today at ship building industries. Indonesia which at the time had acquire offset and design building right from Germany for our Cakra U209 class they intended to building at least six ships by 1990 with some in the PT PAL, Fatahillah class Corvettes from Dutch, Exocet Missiles and so on. I know and had seen in the old archive center or warehouse at PT PAL, IPTN/PT DIRGANTARA and other research center like BPPT, LAPAN and so on our government had acquire a lot of sub system blue print design even tools and jig to produce them and the likes from previous deals and now just wasted gathering dust.

 

[trishna_amrta]

To be Frank, it is not all related with how much offset the OEM provided, but which one who can provided the largest kickback for the relevant parties including the Shipyard companies upper level management, that's why some dubious Shipyard designer still persist on their offer, and in turn Made them had a long time cooperation with us. Indonesian "way" is more complex and the red tape along with corruption still very pervacive at many level of government management and industry complex (either private owned or government owned) such practice is very known by long term Indonesian partner like Netherland and Japan.

Was about to write within a similar line, but you get to it first. dang.. I'm really slow lately

 

[Anmdt]

---

To be Frank, it is not all related with how much offset the OEM provided, but which one who can provided the largest kickback for the relevant parties including the Shipyard companies upper level management, that's why some dubious Shipyard designer still persist on their offer, and in turn Made them had a long time cooperation with us. Indonesian "way" is more complex and the red tape along with corruption still very pervacive at many level of government management and industry complex (either private owned or government owned) such practice is very known by long term Indonesian partner like Netherland and Japan.

If Indonesia stick themselves to the road map the government had set since REPELITA 3 in the early 1970's during oil boom era, we should have the same capability on par with South Korean or Turkey today at ship building industries. Indonesia which at the time had acquire offset and design building right from Germany for our Cakra U209 class they intended to building at least six ships by 1990 with some in the PT PAL, Fatahillah class Corvettes from Dutch, Exocet Missiles and so on. I know and had seen in the old archive center or warehouse at PT PAL, IPTN/PT DIRGANTARA and other research center like BPPT, LAPAN and so on our government had acquire a lot of sub system blue print design even tools and jig to produce them and the likes from previous deals and now just wasted gathering dust.

SUT torpedo is also a good example, it wasn't further than assembly of critical parts but still some parts were produced in there, at least there was a production line. It was achieved in 90s.

Actually yes, if the first chance taken,then +2 Cakra would be produced in Indonesia but there was a second chance in 90s with refit of Type 206 and transferring those to Indonesia for MLU (rather extending operational life upgrade). I know +2 Cakra didn't pass beyond negotiation. And I presume the Type 206s were fallen because of the transition from Suharto and asian economic crisis.
So my bet would be those blueprints and tools belong to Type206s, since first two hulls were about to be shipped and cancelled in last minute. So some preps might have taken place in Indonesia to start refit. MLU is a much effective way to learn how to build something,and how to integrate it so it was much better and cheaper chance.

And i think corruption shouldn't be an excuse for that, it is just cheaper, simpler and easier to buy it through credits which paid in portions, and hand's not getting dirty in mud. I know what you refer to with some people tend to love some products, that was happening in Turkey too and even still creates a resistance in acquisition. (Also happened in Korea, some high ranks resisted to local products implying "lower performance")