Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

Madokafc

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Tribal class Frigate name

KRI Martha Christina Tiahahu (331)
KRI Wilhelmus Zakaria Johannes (332)
KRI Hasanuddin (333)

Claude Jones Destroyer Escort class name

KRI Samadikun (341)
KRI Martadinata (342)
KRI Monginsidi (343)
KRI Ngurah Rai (344)
 

Madokafc

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There is also KRI Gajah Mada once was a J,K N class Destroyer, KRI Slamet Riyadi ex Van Speijk class which recently retired and KRI Hajar Dewantara Frigate Training Ship
 

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Should our would be FREMM and Iver Huitveld class design Frigates (pseudo Destroyer) using the ex name or using newly ones?
 

Mandala

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Italian media responded to the French La Tribune article.

The Italian slap that angers France

Lorenzo Vita
19 JUNE 2021

France is not there. The Italian move (by Fincantieri) to grab a contract with Indonesia of about 4 billion for the sale of six Fremm frigates plus modernization and sale of two other Maestrale class frigates continues to hold ground in Paris. And there are many who are now wondering about the reasons behind an agreement which, if it demonstrates the excellent Italian ability to snatch business around the world, at the same time proves more than one difficulty on the French side. Difficulty that burns even more to the French because they are partners, together with Fincantieri, precisely for the realization of the Fremm.

Something has obviously gone wrong. La Tribune, a French newspaper very involved in issues related to defense and the war industry, described not only the anger of Naval Group, which is part, together with Fincantieri, of the Naviris group, but also the disappointment of the general delegate for armaments, Joël Barre, who spoke about it during a hearing at the National Assembly. An economic question, of course, but above all of national pride, because it is clear that being outclassed by a country that shares the same industrial group is a setback that also represents a warning signal for the entire French war industry. There are even those who have suggested that there is a secret agreement between the French and Italian giant to divide up the customers, and therefore Italy would have had a sort of priority for Indonesia and the Philippines. But what transpires from these first reports is that the entire French defense industry is in turmoil: a sector characterized by silence, hidden moves and little desire to speak in the press. If this time this boiling reaches the surface, involving media and politics, it therefore means that the underground earthquake was much greater than we could expect.

In fact, the issue does not only concern Indonesia, but the entire French industrial plan and the ability to export it abroad. In the military field, Emmanuel Macron (like all his predecessors) has always shown off the military sector as a cornerstone of his diplomacy. Sales of the Rafale, Dassault's fighters, are exemplary in this sense. Where the Elysée arrives, French warplanes usually also arrive, as demonstrated by the contracts signed with Qatar, Egypt, India and Greece. The latter, in particular, was the subject of a real enveloping maneuver by Paris, which first supported it against Turkey and then convinced it to buy 18 Rafale, 12 of which have already been used by the French Air Force.

However, if the air sector still manages to express its own "geopolitics", the naval question is different. Italy, which has excellent relations with France in this area confirmed by the Fremm and Horizon projects, has managed to maneuver with great intelligence even in countries considered not strictly linked to the Made in Italy defense industry. The clearest demonstration of this Italian strategy came from the sale of the Fremms to Egypt, which, in addition to being described in the framework of the complex bilateral relationship due to the Regeni case, should also be framed as an agreement that wrested billions from Cairo which, very much probably, they would go to Paris. But in addition to the sale of the two ships to the Egyptian Navy, we must not forget the numerous agreements with the American Navy, with the Qatari Navy, the agreements with the United Arab Emirates and finally a whole series of operations that have very often represented a real thorn in the side of French industrial diplomacy.

And now, after the Indonesia question, another front could also open up: the Greek one. In these days, Naval News confirmed that in a meeting on the acquisition of new frigates which was also attended by Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis, the Greek government would have selected the offers of six countries: France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom and United States. Spain, which had come forward with Navantia's offer, would therefore have been excluded. Fincantieri should always propose the Fremm in Athens, by now a real Italian asset for surface vehicles. France thought it already had the agreement in hand after the one signed for the Hellenic Air Force. A new slap in the face from the Italian side, in a country that it considers partners both on the Libyan front and on that of the eastern Mediterranean, could be much heavier than that already suffered in Indonesia.

 
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NEKO

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Italian media responded to the French La Tribune article.

The Italian slap that angers France

Lorenzo Vita
19 JUNE 2021

France is not there. The Italian move (by Fincantieri) to grab a contract with Indonesia of about 4 billion for the sale of six Fremm frigates plus modernization and sale of two other Maestrale class frigates continues to hold ground in Paris. And there are many who are now wondering about the reasons behind an agreement which, if it demonstrates the excellent Italian ability to snatch business around the world, at the same time proves more than one difficulty on the French side. Difficulty that burns even more to the French because they are partners, together with Fincantieri, precisely for the realization of the Fremm.

Something has obviously gone wrong. La Tribune, a French newspaper very involved in issues related to defense and the war industry, described not only the anger of Naval Group, which is part, together with Fincantieri, of the Naviris group, but also the disappointment of the general delegate for armaments, Joël Barre, who spoke about it during a hearing at the National Assembly. An economic question, of course, but above all of national pride, because it is clear that being outclassed by a country that shares the same industrial group is a setback that also represents a warning signal for the entire French war industry. There are even those who have suggested that there is a secret agreement between the French and Italian giant to divide up the customers, and therefore Italy would have had a sort of priority for Indonesia and the Philippines. But what transpires from these first reports is that the entire French defense industry is in turmoil: a sector characterized by silence, hidden moves and little desire to speak in the press. If this time this boiling reaches the surface, involving media and politics, it therefore means that the underground earthquake was much greater than we could expect.

In fact, the issue does not only concern Indonesia, but the entire French industrial plan and the ability to export it abroad. In the military field, Emmanuel Macron (like all his predecessors) has always shown off the military sector as a cornerstone of his diplomacy. Sales of the Rafale, Dassault's fighters, are exemplary in this sense. Where the Elysée arrives, French warplanes usually also arrive, as demonstrated by the contracts signed with Qatar, Egypt, India and Greece. The latter, in particular, was the subject of a real enveloping maneuver by Paris, which first supported it against Turkey and then convinced it to buy 18 Rafale, 12 of which have already been used by the French Air Force.

However, if the air sector still manages to express its own "geopolitics", the naval question is different. Italy, which has excellent relations with France in this area confirmed by the Fremm and Horizon projects, has managed to maneuver with great intelligence even in countries considered not strictly linked to the Made in Italy defense industry. The clearest demonstration of this Italian strategy came from the sale of the Fremms to Egypt, which, in addition to being described in the framework of the complex bilateral relationship due to the Regeni case, should also be framed as an agreement that wrested billions from Cairo which, very much probably, they would go to Paris. But in addition to the sale of the two ships to the Egyptian Navy, we must not forget the numerous agreements with the American Navy, with the Qatari Navy, the agreements with the United Arab Emirates and finally a whole series of operations that have very often represented a real thorn in the side. of French industrial diplomacy.

And now, after the Indonesia question, another front could also open up: the Greek one. In these days, Naval News confirmed that in a meeting on the acquisition of new frigates which was also attended by Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis, the Greek government would have selected the offers of six countries: France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom and United States. Spain, which had come forward with Navantia's offer, would therefore have been excluded. Fincantieri should always propose the Fremm in Athens, by now a real Italian asset for surface vehicles. France thought it already had the agreement in hand after the one signed for the Hellenic Air Force. A new slap in the face from the Italian side, in a country that it considers partners both on the Libyan front and on that of the eastern Mediterranean, could be much heavier than that already suffered in Indonesia.

Mama mia they are rubbing the wound with salt, wkwkwk
 

Mandala

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"And now, after the Indonesia question, another front could also open up: the Greek one."

^^ Well if the Greek finally selected the Fincantieri FREMM it will no longer be considered as a SLAP but a PUNCH. Lol.
 
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France FREMM and FDi lack off CIWS, and i think every HN frigate has Phalanx or RIM as CIWS, while Italian FREMM has Leonardo Strales as CIWS, aside from political support from france for HN, naval group would face hardship against Fincantieri.
 

Mandala

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For TNI-AL FREMM what is more suitable for the main gun the Volcano or the Strales?
 

trishna_amrta

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surely that will be interesting

Officer : Captain! Warship Ahead, Collision is Inevitable!
Capt : F*ck that, Just ram it over!! View attachment 23622


and i also think that this features should be "wajib" exists in any of our patrol vessel, strengthen hull can withstand some damage, and if unstrengthen-hull ship doing some police chase and some bumping over, so there are no wonder if after that the ship will having some damage over it's hull, and in some cases the damages is so great that they are unable to maintain the ship

one good case of ship ramming another ship
Bumping hull isn't uncommon in maritime practice. Which is why I always sternly against any naval or even patrol vessel that is made from plastic (example, that overhype trimaran boat)
 

Madokafc

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Italian media responded to the also arrive, as demonstrated by the contracts signed with Qatar, Egypt, India and Greece. The latter, in particular, was the subject of a real enveloping maneuver by Paris, which first supported it against Turkey and then convinced it to buy 18 Rafale, 12 of which have already been used by the French Air Force.

However, if the air sector still manages to express its own "geopolitics", the naval question is different. Italy, which has excellent relations with France in this area confirmed by the Fremm and Horizon projects, has managed to maneuver with great intelligence even in countries considered not strictly linked to the Made in Italy defense industry. The clearest demonstration of this Italian strategy came from the sale of the Fremms to Egypt, which, in addition to being described in the framework of the complex bilateral relationship due to the Regeni case, should also be framed as an agreement that wrested billions from Cairo which, very much probably, they would go to Paris. But in addition to the sale of the two ships to the Egyptian Navy, we must not forget the numerous agreements with the American Navy, with the Qatari Navy, the agreements with the United Arab Emirates and finally a whole series of operations that have very often represented a real thorn in the side. of French industrial diplomacy.

And now, after the Indonesia question, another front could also open up: the Greek one. In these days, Naval News confirmed that in a meeting on the acquisition of new frigates which was also attended by Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis, the Greek government would have selected the offers of six countries: France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom and United States. Spain, which had come forward with Navantia's offer, would therefore have been excluded. Fincantieri should always propose the Fremm in Athens, by now a real Italian asset for surface vehicles. France thought it already had the agreement in hand after the one signed for the Hellenic Air Force. A new slap in the face from the Italian side, in a country that it considers partners both on the Libyan front and on that of the eastern Mediterranean, could be much heavier than that already suffered in Indonesia.


Seems the contract already done deal not only LoI or pre eliminary contract. Btw the Italian and Indonesian MoD quite sneaky to hold the ground until the last event.
 

trishna_amrta

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Italian media responded to the French La Tribune article.

The Italian slap that angers France

Lorenzo Vita
19 JUNE 2021

France is not there. The Italian move (by Fincantieri) to grab a contract with Indonesia of about 4 billion for the sale of six Fremm frigates plus modernization and sale of two other Maestrale class frigates continues to hold ground in Paris. And there are many who are now wondering about the reasons behind an agreement which, if it demonstrates the excellent Italian ability to snatch business around the world, at the same time proves more than one difficulty on the French side. Difficulty that burns even more to the French because they are partners, together with Fincantieri, precisely for the realization of the Fremm.

Something has obviously gone wrong. La Tribune, a French newspaper very involved in issues related to defense and the war industry, described not only the anger of Naval Group, which is part, together with Fincantieri, of the Naviris group, but also the disappointment of the general delegate for armaments, Joël Barre, who spoke about it during a hearing at the National Assembly. An economic question, of course, but above all of national pride, because it is clear that being outclassed by a country that shares the same industrial group is a setback that also represents a warning signal for the entire French war industry. There are even those who have suggested that there is a secret agreement between the French and Italian giant to divide up the customers, and therefore Italy would have had a sort of priority for Indonesia and the Philippines. But what transpires from these first reports is that the entire French defense industry is in turmoil: a sector characterized by silence, hidden moves and little desire to speak in the press. If this time this boiling reaches the surface, involving media and politics, it therefore means that the underground earthquake was much greater than we could expect.

In fact, the issue does not only concern Indonesia, but the entire French industrial plan and the ability to export it abroad. In the military field, Emmanuel Macron (like all his predecessors) has always shown off the military sector as a cornerstone of his diplomacy. Sales of the Rafale, Dassault's fighters, are exemplary in this sense. Where the Elysée arrives, French warplanes usually also arrive, as demonstrated by the contracts signed with Qatar, Egypt, India and Greece. The latter, in particular, was the subject of a real enveloping maneuver by Paris, which first supported it against Turkey and then convinced it to buy 18 Rafale, 12 of which have already been used by the French Air Force.

However, if the air sector still manages to express its own "geopolitics", the naval question is different. Italy, which has excellent relations with France in this area confirmed by the Fremm and Horizon projects, has managed to maneuver with great intelligence even in countries considered not strictly linked to the Made in Italy defense industry. The clearest demonstration of this Italian strategy came from the sale of the Fremms to Egypt, which, in addition to being described in the framework of the complex bilateral relationship due to the Regeni case, should also be framed as an agreement that wrested billions from Cairo which, very much probably, they would go to Paris. But in addition to the sale of the two ships to the Egyptian Navy, we must not forget the numerous agreements with the American Navy, with the Qatari Navy, the agreements with the United Arab Emirates and finally a whole series of operations that have very often represented a real thorn in the side of French industrial diplomacy.

And now, after the Indonesia question, another front could also open up: the Greek one. In these days, Naval News confirmed that in a meeting on the acquisition of new frigates which was also attended by Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis, the Greek government would have selected the offers of six countries: France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom and United States. Spain, which had come forward with Navantia's offer, would therefore have been excluded. Fincantieri should always propose the Fremm in Athens, by now a real Italian asset for surface vehicles. France thought it already had the agreement in hand after the one signed for the Hellenic Air Force. A new slap in the face from the Italian side, in a country that it considers partners both on the Libyan front and on that of the eastern Mediterranean, could be much heavier than that already suffered in Indonesia.

Putus Kongsi
 

Lordimperator

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For TNI-AL FREMM what is more suitable for the main gun the Volcano or the Strales
Strales to double the ciws capability, or Vulcano if aiming for the longer range and firepunch, personally i vote Vulcano the bigger the better hehe
 

Mandala

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Strales to double the ciws capability, or Vulcano if aiming for the longer range and firepunch, personally i vote Vulcano the bigger the better hehe
A mix of both of them like the Italians would be nice...3 FREMMs with Volcano and the other 3 with Strales.
 

NEKO

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Btw the Italian and Indonesian MoD quite sneaky to hold the ground until the last event.
Biar ga digoyang bisikan bisikan lain.

If its really a done deal then its just a matter of time.
 

Van Kravchenko

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Seems the contract already done deal not only LoI or pre eliminary contract. Btw the Italian and Indonesian MoD quite sneaky to hold the ground until the last event.
Is it so ?
Only a matter of time for the hull being constructed then ?

If this true, perhaps this is one of little "state of the art" weaponery Indonesia used to buy.(or rather, ngutang)
 

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Only a matter of time for the hull being constructed then ?
Do we have to wait for italian or Egyptian FREMM being built first? 2 latest Italian FREMM sold to Egypt, and i think they want to order more.
 

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"And now, after the Indonesia question, another front could also open up: the Greek one."

^^ Well if the Greek finally selected the Fincantieri FREMM it will no longer be considered as a SLAP but a PUNCH. Lol.

The Greek will be Italianing the French soon.
 

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