TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

Spitfire9 · Apr 18, 2025

Oublious said:
lol

How about israel?

Indeed. Responsible for appalling injustices and war crimes. I find it shameful that the European countries criticise it so little and take even less action against it.

RMZN · Apr 18, 2025

Spitfire9 said:
Indeed. Responsible for appalling injustices and war crimes. I find it shameful that the European countries criticise it so little and take even less action against it.

They do take action, its just that those actions are to enable israel and not hamper its genocidal and expansionist tendencies.

Bottom line is that at the end of the day the Germans have the stronger negotiating position and can do as they want. Imamoglus arrest hast no been of service to Turkish national interest whatsoever and it was entirely predictable that the German government would act in this way. Erdogan practically gave them the best excuse to halt the sale without having to face pressure by the other consortium members.

Spitfire9 · Apr 18, 2025

Zoth said:
You don't even realise how hypocritical you sound with this take, that's all i gotta say.

That's your view.

One thing that surprises me is that in the string of responses to my post, nobody is prepared to acknowledge that what I wrote is true about Turkiye and untrue (written for effect) about the EU countries.

Le Pen? Not a big deal what she did but she should have been more careful. Politicians know that there are strict rules governing the spending of state funds provided to them.

The election of my local MP in the UK was nearly overturned because the expenses incurred in his election campaign (not state funds) might have exceeded the limit allowed. Reason? Ironically a number of government ministers travelled to my town to speak in his support. There was a question as to whether their travel expenses (my MP did not pay them) should be seen as part of his election campaign expenses. He was accused of fraud. It transpired that a party member had deceived him about the actual expenses incurred. In the end a court decided he was not aware of that and was found not guilty of fraud. The party member received a prison sentence.

Politicians need to be very careful to obey the rules. Le Pen was not.

Zoth · Apr 18, 2025

Spitfire9 said:
That's your view.

One thing that surprises me is that in the string of responses to my post, nobody is prepared to acknowledge that what I wrote is true about Turkiye and untrue (written for effect) about the EU countries.

What you don't understand is that we already know what is true and untrue about Turkey and we don't need someone else to parrot it to us the same old song about democracy and freedom stuff.
Anyone who openly states that those sales are blocked/vetoed due to "democratic reasons" is either a delusional person or lying on purpose for some certain agenda or simply they are living in another reality.

Spitfire9 · Apr 18, 2025

Zoth said:
What you don't understand is that we already know what is true and untrue about Turkey and we don't need someone else to parrot it to us the same old song about democracy and freedom stuff.
Anyone who openly states that those sales are blocked/vetoed due to "democratic reasons" is either a delusional person or lying on purpose for some certain agenda or simply they are living in another reality.

Democracy and freedom stuff is important to the people of Europe. Some of us and some of our governments will continue to parrot it to countries wanting to buy our kit. We don't support despots.

If the Turkish government wants to buy Eurofighter, there is an easy way to do that - stop behaving in an autocratic, dictatorial manner. Start behaving as your constitution demands - respect democracy. Europe does not want a de facto dictatorship on its doorstep.

boredaf · Apr 18, 2025

Spitfire9 said:
Some of us and some of our governments will continue to parrot it to countries wanting to buy our kit. We don't support despots.

Fucking hell, isn't air getting a bit thin on your high horse? If you truly believe that UK or other EU countries actually give a flying fuck about "despots" as you put it, then I got a bridge to sell you. It is slightly used but in a great location, you'd love it.

Your condescending tone is truly not appreciated at all, especially when you're spouting bullshit like this. Take a good fucking look at which countries your beacons of democracy sold weapons to, which countries they gifted favourable policy decisions to and educate yourself a bit before spouting this stuff. Europe had no trouble selling weapons to Israel or Saudi Arabia while they were committing genocide but here you come and act as if countries actually give a fuck about this stuff, other than to sell this to people like you so that you can feel superior to others.

Spitfire9 · Apr 18, 2025

boredaf said:
Fucking hell, isn't air getting a bit thin on your high horse? If you truly believe that UK or other EU countries actually give a flying fuck about "despots" as you put it, then I got a bridge to sell you. It is slightly used but in a great location, you'd love it.

Your condescending tone is truly not appreciated at all, especially when you're spouting bullshit like this. Take a good fucking look at which countries your beacons of democracy sold weapons to, which countries they gifted favourable policy decisions to and educate yourself a bit before spouting this stuff. Europe had no trouble selling weapons to Israel or Saudi Arabia while they were committing genocide but here you come and act as if countries actually give a fuck about this stuff, other than to sell this to people like you so that you can feel superior to others.

If they don't, as you put it, 'give a fuck about this stuff' then why is it that they don't all want to take the profit to be made from selling Eurofighter to Turkiye?

boredaf · Apr 18, 2025

Spitfire9 said:
If they don't, as you put it, 'give a fuck about this stuff' then why is it that they don't all want to take the profit to be made from selling Eurofighter to Turkiye?

Because there are factions within these countries, certainly in Germany, that hated us long before Erdogan was even close to power. I don't know how old you are, but I'm certainly old enough to remember their rhetoric from those times. If they truly fucking cared, then they would've applied those principles evenly to every other country. The fact that they don't proves that they only use it as an excuse to bludgeon the countries that they either feel enmity towards, or deem unimportant enough that they can grandstand without much consequence and people like you will gobble it up and then prance around on their high horses.

Go and take a look at weapons sales from UK and other European countries in the last few decades, take a look at where your militaries were deployed and what they did, take a good look at which countries did you sanction and which countries you increased your trade with at the same time. If you still don't see it, you're wilfully ignorant and I have nothing more to say to someone like that.

Spitfire9 · Apr 18, 2025

I'm sorry, locking up the politician most likely to defeat Erdogan in a free election was what prompted this as far as I can see. Before that and all the demonstrations that followed, Germany was agreeable to Eurofighter supply. What you say about German dislike/hatred for Turkiye being the cause does not make sense to me. If that were the reason, how come Germany ever agreed to selling Eurofighter to Turkiye?

Pokemonte13 · Apr 18, 2025

I think what our Turkish friends are angry about is the double standard of nato allies who justify their restrictions on military sales to turkey for 50 on issues of democracy and human rights but in the same breath sell stuff to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar or any other Middle Eastern/north African countries.

Spitfire9 · Apr 18, 2025

Pokemonte13 said:
I think what our Turkish friends are angry about is the double standard of nato allies who justify their restrictions on military sales to turkey for 50 on issues of democracy and human rights but in the same breath sell stuff to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar or any other Middle Eastern/north African countries.

I take your point. Better not to sell to any regime that oppresses its people IMO.

Zoth · Apr 18, 2025

Spitfire9 said:
Democracy and freedom stuff is important to the people of Europe. Some of us and some of our governments will continue to parrot it to countries wanting to buy our kit. We don't support despots.

If the Turkish government wants to buy Eurofighter, there is an easy way to do that - stop behaving in an autocratic, dictatorial manner. Start behaving as your constitution demands - respect democracy. Europe does not want a de facto dictatorship on its doorstep.

Who is "we" in this matter, that "don't supports despots"? Italy who is collaborating with multiple Turkish companies, same with Spain who also does the same or the UK who is trying to sell us Eurofighters? Do you think that you are the only available alternative?

About your second paragraph, you finally showed your true colors, the same old hypocritical european, the same old song again, you guys care about democracy until some right wing party suddenly rises in popularity.

Strong AI · Apr 18, 2025

Spitfire9 said:
I'm sorry, locking up the politician most likely to defeat Erdogan in a free election was what prompted this as far as I can see. Before that and all the demonstrations that followed, Germany was agreeable to Eurofighter supply. What you say about German dislike/hatred for Turkiye being the cause does not make sense to me. If that were the reason, how come Germany ever agreed to selling Eurofighter to Turkiye?

I woud say because Germany was cornered by the rest of the EF consortium. It took many month for them to change Germany's decision. But now Germany has found another excuse.
Is there another consortium member who talks about Ekrem?
But we need to wait for the new german government for a final decision.

Spitfire9 · Apr 18, 2025

Zoth said:
Who is "we" in this matter, that "don't supports despots"? Italy who is collaborating with multiple Turkish companies, same with Spain who also does the same or the UK who is trying to sell us Eurofighters? Do you think that you are the only available alternative?

About your second paragraph, you finally showed your true colors, the same old hypocritical european, the same old song again, you guys care about democracy until some right wing party suddenly rises in popularity.

Spitfire9 · Apr 18, 2025

To me Eurofighter does appear to be the only alternative unless you call Gripen E an alternative and there is no guarantee that would be deliverable in numbers in a suitable timeframe. Same problem with KF-21, I think. Even if Turkiye would buy from France, what I read from India is that it may want to order 40 Rafale for the IAF but delivery would be expected post 2030.

Azeri441 · Apr 18, 2025

Tuvan said:
Handelsblatt

www.handelsblatt.com

Alman hükümeti Türkiye'ye Eurofighter satışını veto etti – DW – 18.04.2025

Handelsblatt gazetesi, İmamoğlu'nun tutuklanması nedeniyle Alman hükümetinin Türkiye'ye Eurofighter tipi savaş uçaklarının satışını engellediğini yazdı.

www.dw.com

Alman basını: Hükûmet, İmamoğlu'nun tutuklanması gerekçesiyle Türkiye'ye Eurofighter satışını engelledi

Alman basını: Hükûmet, İmamoğlu'nun tutuklanması gerekçesiyle Türkiye'ye Eurofighter satışını engelledi

t24.com.tr

Germany vetoed Turkiye's Eurofighter acquisition amidst arrest of Ekrem Imamoglu

German government is changing in May 6 so they might change their policy again. I don't know

Brain dead German government destroying their own defense industry further, specially when they are trying to revamp their industry due to Russian threats.

Absolute morons.

Fuzuli NL · Apr 18, 2025

How would we know that Eko is really a corrupt thief?
When Germany sides with and supports him.

TR_123456 · Apr 18, 2025

Spitfire9 said:
To me Eurofighter does appear to be the only alternative unless you call Gripen E an alternative and there is no guarantee that would be deliverable in numbers in a suitable timeframe. Same problem with KF-21, I think. Even if Turkiye would buy from France, what I read from India is that it may want to order 40 Rafale for the IAF but delivery would be expected post 2030.

Just use logic,if it is about democracy then why sell to KSA,Qatar,Egypt,UAE etc.
This means,it is not about democracy,its about Türkiye specificly.
Remember the weapons embargos by our NATO allies.
So,it is a fact.
What is also a fact is that Germany has no choice but to agree to the deal made.

IC3M@N FX · Saturday at 12:12 AM

There you have it.... Several people say that Imamoglu is a puppet who will protect Western interests at the expense of Turkey.
You have received so many signals and this is the clearest one.

But most here know better..... Turkey is moving out of the spheres of powers like USA & Europe, and wants to cooperate with all globally economically, militarily, to be as independent as possible.

Did you think that would have no consequences and would cause great reluctance economically, politically and strategically against Turkey?
They want to stop with all their might the rise of Turkey as an independent power, which will be neutral, it is a key state, both as a transit for Goods, Energy Hub and as a country it is geographically like an aircraft carrier that has access to the Caucasus, Middle and Far East, Europe and Africa.
But hey, Erdoğan is a dictator and Imamoglu is what Turkey needs....

boredaf · Saturday at 1:14 AM

IC3M@N FX said:
There you have it.... Several people say that Imamoglu is a puppet who will protect Western interests at the expense of Turkey.
You have received so many signals and this is the clearest one.

But most here know better..... Turkey is moving out of the spheres of powers like USA & Europe, and wants to cooperate with all globally economically, militarily, to be as independent as possible.

Did you think that would have no consequences and would cause great reluctance economically, politically and strategically against Turkey?
They want to stop with all their might the rise of Turkey as an independent power, which will be neutral, it is a key state, both as a transit for Goods, Energy Hub and as a country it is geographically like an aircraft carrier that has access to the Caucasus, Middle and Far East, Europe and Africa.
But hey, Erdoğan is a dictator and Imamoglu is what Turkey needs....

They were looking for an excuse and Erdogan gave them one, because he is a bloody dictator ffs. If you truly believe that they suddenly found this stuff just as he was gaining ground as the presidential candidate AND almost all of the polls were showing Erdogan was going to lose, then you're brainwashed. If the roles were reversed and someone who has been in charge for over 20 fucking years had Erdogan arrested just as his popularity rose they would've been one as well.

We're not moving out of anyone's sphere of power, your own messiah has been banging on more cooperation with Europe, including more talks of joining the EU. Cut off our ties to those Westerners you hate so much and we'd be fucking North Korea. Those Turkic countries people love jerking off about just recognised us as an invader on Cyprus and those Islamic countries people want Turkey to become more like has been working more and more with Israel and the West.

Dream all you want, but the reality is we do not have the economical, industrial or even manpower to become a completely independent superpower that support itself completely. Cooperation is still a necessity whether you like it or not. Best thing to do is NOT to give more ammunition in pursuit of personal power and enrichment. A change is what Turkey desperately needs 20 years of Erdogan "stability" has given us nothing but embarrassment overseas and economical downfall in our country.

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