TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

Oublious

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They were never modernized for BVR, they don't even carry AIM-120. Another big modernization would require another full replacing of cabling, modernizing the cockpit and so much more for a squadron worth of aircraft that is already outdated by 40 years, to be replaced in 5 years after they are delivered. Which to be honest after reading it, remembering F-5 2000, Şimşek and Işık, does make sense from HvKK's point of view. They love modernizing old stuff to throw the towel 5 years later.

Maybe we can also transfer them to DzKK to be used on the new CATOBAR carrier.

For the love of J79's roar, someone please sign the Eurofighter deal already.

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It's a fucking Greek tragedy.

"On the way we set out to replace the F-4s with the F-35, we could not get the F-35s and were removed from the project, ordered F-16Vs to the country that removed us, made the first payment and said "actually, I wonder if we should go back to the F-35", on the other hand, we pretended to buy Typhoon and finally found ourselves in F-4 modernization."


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I think we can also discuss modernizing these F-104s in high speed interception duties again, who needs eurofighters with high climb rate when you can just use a rocket motor with wings. Slap a Murad on the nose and 2 Gökhans and should be good enough.

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I'm jesting, because this is genuinely funny at this stage. Air force is bleeding for new fighters since 2010. 15 years have passed with no end in sight. With all these talk of high and mighty, evergrowing number of missions in different parts of the world, but contemporarily, air force is at its lowest point since 1950s. It is a tragedy.


But the B52 is more then 50 years old still going on :D , i am thinking like you. Just buy that EF...
 

Strong AI

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It is hilarious to see people connecting a possible F-4 modernization with the failure of buying new Jets. You will buy those new Jets for Air dominance. So we have two different roles here. We don't even know the scope of what they have discussed, but our so called "experts" started already sh*tting and hating. That's why they are only seen in Türkiye as "experts".
 

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It is hilarious to see people connecting a possible F-4 modernization with the failure of buying new Jets.
There is no other connection to be made there. Air force planned to replace F-4s beginning from 2018 with F-35s, they planned all this, retired squadrons, modernized Malatya AFB for this exact reason beginning from early 2010s. In the original plan, last F-4 would have been retired years ago. Remaining 20 something F-4s being modernized is only possible because of the failure to buy new jets.

You will buy those new Jets for Air dominance. So we have two different roles here.
F-4 is a fuel guzzling turbojet aircraft with mediocre combat radius and now obsolete avionics. We paid more than 600 million dollars to modernize 50 F-4Es to 2020 back in 1999. With added inflation and new stuff costing more, we can easily expect 20 aircraft to come at a billion USD easily. You can't create a JH-7 out of F-4E and make the costs make sense for 20 aircraft to use it as a bomb truck, F-4 2020 is the last stop of that route already. In 2025, F-4 is not surviving more than a single sortie when Rafales are being swatted out of sky at ranges of up to 150 kilometers. Is using F-4s to send TRLG-300 ALBMs is really what this air force needs?

We don't even know the scope of what they have discussed
Here's hoping they discussed converting F-4s to drones to be used in Göktuğ missile tests as target aircraft.

but our so called "experts" started already sh*tting and hating. That's why they are only seen in Türkiye as "experts".
I'm an amateur, but I bet it doesn't take an expert to see this is not "hating". Hating would be to argue to modernize 60 year old airframes to fight another day, if I hated the aircraft, the pilots, maintenance crews, planners and the armed forces overall.
 

Strong AI

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In 2025, F-4 is not surviving more than a single sortie when Rafales are being swatted out of sky at ranges of up to 150 kilometers. Is using F-4s to send TRLG-300 ALBMs is really what this air force needs?

Who is talking about TRLG-300? I am talking about Gezgin, Air Bora, SOM.
Plus there is a reason why a strike package includes Escort and Sweep. You write it like they will send F-4s on their own, not only that but you also suggest to use fighter, which main role would be BVR, as bomber.
Only because F-35s should replace F-4s, it doesn't mean that they would have the same role. F-35's main role is air superiority. You would use your only stealth fighter, which you have in limited numbers, as bomber and protect them with F-16/EF?
We are not USA.
Your suggestion is to throw F-4s away, because we failed to get new Jets?
 

I_Love_F16

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There is no other connection to be made there. Air force planned to replace F-4s beginning from 2018 with F-35s, they planned all this, retired squadrons, modernized Malatya AFB for this exact reason beginning from early 2010s. In the original plan, last F-4 would have been retired years ago. Remaining 20 something F-4s being modernized is only possible because of the failure to buy new jets.


F-4 is a fuel guzzling turbojet aircraft with mediocre combat radius and now obsolete avionics. We paid more than 600 million dollars to modernize 50 F-4Es to 2020 back in 1999. With added inflation and new stuff costing more, we can easily expect 20 aircraft to come at a billion USD easily. You can't create a JH-7 out of F-4E and make the costs make sense for 20 aircraft to use it as a bomb truck, F-4 2020 is the last stop of that route already. In 2025, F-4 is not surviving more than a single sortie when Rafales are being swatted out of sky at ranges of up to 150 kilometers. Is using F-4s to send TRLG-300 ALBMs is really what this air force needs?


Here's hoping they discussed converting F-4s to drones to be used in Göktuğ missile tests as target aircraft.


I'm an amateur, but I bet it doesn't take an expert to see this is not "hating". Hating would be to argue to modernize 60 year old airframes to fight another day, if I hated the aircraft, the pilots, maintenance crews, planners and the armed forces overall.

The only proper and logical thing to do with those F-4’s is to put them into a museum. It’s a beautiful aircraft that did what it was supposed to do for so many years now. They deserve to retire.
 

Sanchez

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I am talking about Gezgin, Air Bora, SOM
We don't know the details on Gezgin, but doubt we can use an F-4 to launch a Bora, centerline station is like 2000kg tops, unless you go for some extensive modifications to the 60 year old airframe. SOM also falls to the same category as the Rafales last month. With 250km range, you're too close to the enemy in a huge F-4 with no thermal dampening and RCS at least 2-3 times F-16.

but you also suggest to use fighter, which main role would be BVR, as bomber
Terminator modernization made these aircraft to be bomb slingers. They were never rated for AIM-120. F-4 squadrons haven't trained for BVR for over 2 decades.

F-35's main role is air superiority
It isn't, it's a multi role strike fighter, it's in the name, Joint Strike Fighter. Exactly the role we use F-4s for, actually.

Your suggestion is to throw F-4s away, because we failed to get new Jets?
My suggestion is to not prolong the suffering of the last remaining single F-4 squadron because F-4 is obsolete and there are much better places we can spend that billion dollars and years of development on, like buying 2 more Siper batteries.

We are all guessworking here. If the idea is to add Link-16 to squeeze 5 more years of them, sure. Anything larger than that and it's a waste.
 

Strong AI

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Rafales will be busy with Sweep and Escort.

Terminator modernization made these aircraft to be bomb slingers. They were never rated for AIM-120. F-4 squadrons haven't trained for BVR for over 2 decades.

I refered to F-35 and EF, not to F-4.

It isn't, it's a multi role strike fighter, it's in the name, Joint Strike Fighter. Exactly the role we use F-4s for, actually.

Really? Then look at this.

"The F-35 is essential to securing air dominance and ensuring mission success across every domain."
"As adversaries advance and legacy aircraft age, the F-35 is critical to maintaining air dominance for decades to come."

A F-35 as bomber with these specs?

1748988270442.jpeg



 

Sanchez

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Really? Then look at this.

"The F-35 is essential to securing air dominance and ensuring mission success across every domain."
"As adversaries advance and legacy aircraft age, the F-35 is critical to maintaining air dominance for decades to come."

A F-35 as bomber with these specs?
F-35 being a marvel of engineering and the best there in multiple aspects has no bearing on whether it's a strike fighter or not. It's a tad small deep strike fighter with capability to carry 2 MK-84s internally, unlike any air superiority fighters. For smaller air forces, ours included it could very well be the best thing in the skies as well, but not for larger powers like US and China.

Word bomber in modern sense is reserved for larger aircraft, like the B-1s, B-21s, Tu-22s etc. I never said bomber.
 

Strong AI

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F-35 being a marvel of engineering and the best there in multiple aspects has no bearing on whether it's a strike fighter or not. It's a tad small deep strike fighter with capability to carry 2 MK-84s internally, unlike any air superiority fighters. For smaller air forces, ours included it could very well be the best thing in the skies as well, but not for larger powers like US and China.

Word bomber in modern sense is reserved for larger aircraft, like the B-1s, B-21s, Tu-22s etc. I never said bomber.

Ok this discussion drifted a little bit, so here is basically my point.
TURAF can't buy Jets on their own.
What does TURAF have currently?
F-16 and F-4.
Which one can do BVR?
F-16 only.
Does TURAF have many F-16?
Not really and some of them are being used for SEAD.
So TURAF, who can't buy Jets on their own, probably decided to further use F-4, because they probably don't want to limit their already limited BVR capability.
And this is the reason why i said, don't connect it with the failure to buy new Jets (i was more refering to our twitter "experts"). Because TURAF can't buy new Jets. You can sh*t on politicians but not on TURAF.
 

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mTT

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They removed the part about HvKK chief's visit completely. Someone didn't like all that chatter from the last 2 days.
OLD PDF
create_date : 2025:06:02 10:33:09+03:00
NEW PDF
create_date : 2025:06:04 10:41:47+03:00

Tweet Post: 2025-06-03T14:24:54.000Z


:unsure:
 

Saithan

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In short TUAF is cornered and wants to prevent any leakage of how bad the situation is.

Anyone thinks they'd give a damn if they had replaced all the F-4 and F16 with new ones less than 20 years old ?
 

Hannibal

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After Kaan, the government should launch a new fighter program, this time it should be a strike fighter, specialized for air to ground missions. Those F35s are not coming, so Turkish Air Force better have a contingency plan.
 

Strong AI

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After Kaan, the government should launch a new fighter program, this time it should be a strike fighter, specialized for air to ground missions. Those F35s are not coming, so Turkish Air Force better have a contingency plan.

Afaik KAAN will be able to carry more internally than F-35 does.
And there is a reason why KAAN will have Toygun EOTS.
 
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