TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Sanchez]

Well, that's just funny. HvKK and Aselsan discussed further modernizations to F-4 2020s. F-4 2040 on the horizon?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1929907148542157160

 

[Sanchez]

As long as they are used only for long-range engagements, i don't see a problem to further modernize them.
For example there were talks about air-launched Bora, then Gezgin will enter inventory and we already have SOM.
With Murad and Gökhan it would be a good BVR fighter too, it can fly fast and high.
As a bonus maybe they are working on air-launched SIPER.
So we still need a fighter, which can launch big missiles.

They were never modernized for BVR, they don't even carry AIM-120. Another big modernization would require another full replacing of cabling, modernizing the cockpit and so much more for a squadron worth of aircraft that is already outdated by 40 years, to be replaced in 5 years after they are delivered. Which to be honest after reading it, remembering F-5 2000, Şimşek and Işık, does make sense from HvKK's point of view. They love modernizing old stuff to throw the towel 5 years later.

Maybe we can also transfer them to DzKK to be used on the new CATOBAR carrier.

For the love of J79's roar, someone please sign the Eurofighter deal already.

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It's a fucking Greek tragedy.

"On the way we set out to replace the F-4s with the F-35, we could not get the F-35s and were removed from the project, ordered F-16Vs to the country that removed us, made the first payment and said "actually, I wonder if we should go back to the F-35", on the other hand, we pretended to buy Typhoon and finally found ourselves in F-4 modernization."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1929927689730761000

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I think we can also discuss modernizing these F-104s in high speed interception duties again, who needs eurofighters with high climb rate when you can just use a rocket motor with wings. Slap a Murad on the nose and 2 Gökhans and should be good enough.

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I'm jesting, because this is genuinely funny at this stage. Air force is bleeding for new fighters since 2010. 15 years have passed with no end in sight. With all these talk of high and mighty, evergrowing number of missions in different parts of the world, but contemporarily, air force is at its lowest point since 1950s. It is a tragedy.

 

[Fairon]

Well, that's just funny. HvKK and Aselsan discussed further modernizations to F-4 2020s. F-4 2040 on the horizon?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1929907148542157160

I mean, at this point, maybe we should just call up Boeing and pitch the idea of rebooting the F-4 production in Tusas.(just for 30-40 frames) We’ll change the engines with F404, license just the shell, and stuff the rest with our own gear. Wonder how hard it will be to convince Boeing? Cost should be more or less equal to the modernization, no?(I mean, besides the engines)

I am just slightly joking.

 

[BordoEnes]

I mean, at this point, maybe we should just call up Boeing and pitch the idea of rebooting the F-4 production in Tusas.(just for 30-40 frames) We’ll change the engines with F404, license just the shell, and stuff the rest with our own gear. Wonder how hard it will be to convince Boeing? Cost should be more or less equal to the modernization, no?(I mean, besides the engines)

I am just slightly joking.

F-4 slander will not be tolerated

 

[Oublious]

They were never modernized for BVR, they don't even carry AIM-120. Another big modernization would require another full replacing of cabling, modernizing the cockpit and so much more for a squadron worth of aircraft that is already outdated by 40 years, to be replaced in 5 years after they are delivered. Which to be honest after reading it, remembering F-5 2000, Şimşek and Işık, does make sense from HvKK's point of view. They love modernizing old stuff to throw the towel 5 years later.

Maybe we can also transfer them to DzKK to be used on the new CATOBAR carrier.

For the love of J79's roar, someone please sign the Eurofighter deal already.

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It's a fucking Greek tragedy.

"On the way we set out to replace the F-4s with the F-35, we could not get the F-35s and were removed from the project, ordered F-16Vs to the country that removed us, made the first payment and said "actually, I wonder if we should go back to the F-35", on the other hand, we pretended to buy Typhoon and finally found ourselves in F-4 modernization."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1929927689730761000

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I think we can also discuss modernizing these F-104s in high speed interception duties again, who needs eurofighters with high climb rate when you can just use a rocket motor with wings. Slap a Murad on the nose and 2 Gökhans and should be good enough.

-
I'm jesting, because this is genuinely funny at this stage. Air force is bleeding for new fighters since 2010. 15 years have passed with no end in sight. With all these talk of high and mighty, evergrowing number of missions in different parts of the world, but contemporarily, air force is at its lowest point since 1950s. It is a tragedy.

But the B52 is more then 50 years old still going on , i am thinking like you. Just buy that EF...

 

[Sanchez]

It is hilarious to see people connecting a possible F-4 modernization with the failure of buying new Jets.

There is no other connection to be made there. Air force planned to replace F-4s beginning from 2018 with F-35s, they planned all this, retired squadrons, modernized Malatya AFB for this exact reason beginning from early 2010s. In the original plan, last F-4 would have been retired years ago. Remaining 20 something F-4s being modernized is only possible because of the failure to buy new jets.

You will buy those new Jets for Air dominance. So we have two different roles here.

F-4 is a fuel guzzling turbojet aircraft with mediocre combat radius and now obsolete avionics. We paid more than 600 million dollars to modernize 50 F-4Es to 2020 back in 1999. With added inflation and new stuff costing more, we can easily expect 20 aircraft to come at a billion USD easily. You can't create a JH-7 out of F-4E and make the costs make sense for 20 aircraft to use it as a bomb truck, F-4 2020 is the last stop of that route already. In 2025, F-4 is not surviving more than a single sortie when Rafales are being swatted out of sky at ranges of up to 150 kilometers. Is using F-4s to send TRLG-300 ALBMs is really what this air force needs?

We don't even know the scope of what they have discussed

Here's hoping they discussed converting F-4s to drones to be used in Göktuğ missile tests as target aircraft.

but our so called "experts" started already sh*tting and hating. That's why they are only seen in Türkiye as "experts".

I'm an amateur, but I bet it doesn't take an expert to see this is not "hating". Hating would be to argue to modernize 60 year old airframes to fight another day, if I hated the aircraft, the pilots, maintenance crews, planners and the armed forces overall.

 

[I_Love_F16]

There is no other connection to be made there. Air force planned to replace F-4s beginning from 2018 with F-35s, they planned all this, retired squadrons, modernized Malatya AFB for this exact reason beginning from early 2010s. In the original plan, last F-4 would have been retired years ago. Remaining 20 something F-4s being modernized is only possible because of the failure to buy new jets.


F-4 is a fuel guzzling turbojet aircraft with mediocre combat radius and now obsolete avionics. We paid more than 600 million dollars to modernize 50 F-4Es to 2020 back in 1999. With added inflation and new stuff costing more, we can easily expect 20 aircraft to come at a billion USD easily. You can't create a JH-7 out of F-4E and make the costs make sense for 20 aircraft to use it as a bomb truck, F-4 2020 is the last stop of that route already. In 2025, F-4 is not surviving more than a single sortie when Rafales are being swatted out of sky at ranges of up to 150 kilometers. Is using F-4s to send TRLG-300 ALBMs is really what this air force needs?


Here's hoping they discussed converting F-4s to drones to be used in Göktuğ missile tests as target aircraft.


I'm an amateur, but I bet it doesn't take an expert to see this is not "hating". Hating would be to argue to modernize 60 year old airframes to fight another day, if I hated the aircraft, the pilots, maintenance crews, planners and the armed forces overall.

The only proper and logical thing to do with those F-4’s is to put them into a museum. It’s a beautiful aircraft that did what it was supposed to do for so many years now. They deserve to retire.

 

[Sanchez]

I am talking about Gezgin, Air Bora, SOM

We don't know the details on Gezgin, but doubt we can use an F-4 to launch a Bora, centerline station is like 2000kg tops, unless you go for some extensive modifications to the 60 year old airframe. SOM also falls to the same category as the Rafales last month. With 250km range, you're too close to the enemy in a huge F-4 with no thermal dampening and RCS at least 2-3 times F-16.

but you also suggest to use fighter, which main role would be BVR, as bomber

Terminator modernization made these aircraft to be bomb slingers. They were never rated for AIM-120. F-4 squadrons haven't trained for BVR for over 2 decades.

F-35's main role is air superiority

It isn't, it's a multi role strike fighter, it's in the name, Joint Strike Fighter. Exactly the role we use F-4s for, actually.

Your suggestion is to throw F-4s away, because we failed to get new Jets?

My suggestion is to not prolong the suffering of the last remaining single F-4 squadron because F-4 is obsolete and there are much better places we can spend that billion dollars and years of development on, like buying 2 more Siper batteries.

We are all guessworking here. If the idea is to add Link-16 to squeeze 5 more years of them, sure. Anything larger than that and it's a waste.

 

[Sanchez]

Really? Then look at this.

"The F-35 is essential to securing air dominance and ensuring mission success across every domain."
"As adversaries advance and legacy aircraft age, the F-35 is critical to maintaining air dominance for decades to come."

A F-35 as bomber with these specs?

F-35 being a marvel of engineering and the best there in multiple aspects has no bearing on whether it's a strike fighter or not. It's a tad small deep strike fighter with capability to carry 2 MK-84s internally, unlike any air superiority fighters. For smaller air forces, ours included it could very well be the best thing in the skies as well, but not for larger powers like US and China.

Word bomber in modern sense is reserved for larger aircraft, like the B-1s, B-21s, Tu-22s etc. I never said bomber.

 

[Fatman17]

162 Filo "Harpoon (Zipkin)" (TuAF)

 

[Sanchez]

View attachment 75598 View attachment 75599
162 Filo "Harpoon (Zipkin)" (TuAF)

It's unclear if 162 is still active after it was retired few years ago. I saw it mentioned that it was reopened few years ago but didn't see any photos or videos so far. It's unclear if its aircraft still are in the joint pool with 161.

 

[mTT]

Looks like Aselsan deleted that part.

https://wwwcdn.aselsan.com/api/file/ASELSAN_a-bulten_84.pdf

They accepted advertisements to cover the magazine's expenses!

 

[Sanchez]

Looks like Aselsan deleted that part.

https://wwwcdn.aselsan.com/api/file/ASELSAN_a-bulten_84.pdf

They removed the part about HvKK chief's visit completely. Someone didn't like all that chatter from the last 2 days.

 

[mTT]

They removed the part about HvKK chief's visit completely. Someone didn't like all that chatter from the last 2 days.

OLD PDF
create_date : 2025:06:02 10:33:09+03:00
NEW PDF
create_date : 2025:06:04 10:41:47+03:00

Tweet Post: 2025-06-03T14:24:54.000Z

 

[Saithan]

In short TUAF is cornered and wants to prevent any leakage of how bad the situation is.

Anyone thinks they'd give a damn if they had replaced all the F-4 and F16 with new ones less than 20 years old ?

 

[zio]

Afaik KAAN will be able to carry more internally than F-35 does.
And there is a reason why KAAN will have Toygun EOTS.

Only two more short range AA missile

 

[Oublious]

Only two more short range AA missile

That big fighter can only carry 4 amraams? Are you sure?

 

[Hannibal]

That big fighter can only carry 4 amraams? Are you sure?

F-35 is being upgraded to carry 6 amraams or 6 future aim-260

 

[Azeri441]

After Kaan, the government should launch a new fighter program, this time it should be a strike fighter, specialized for air to ground missions. Those F35s are not coming, so Turkish Air Force better have a contingency plan.

why? Kaan will be able to carry cruise missiles and guided munitions inside its bays, and it will have EOTS

 

[Azeri441]

That big fighter can only carry 4 amraams? Are you sure?

F-35 Block 4 can carry 6 Amraams