TR Defence Exports & Updates

Saithan

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Effing sh*tshow. Tbh we should build and prioritize for ourselves. Once we have 80+ KAAN airframes and we've proven what they can do. We can much easier find customers who will pay with hard cash.

Anything else is just political acting. And possibly treason if they end up prostituting our projects
 

Umigami

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Saithan

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it's just a MOU. Indonesia does what it deems necessary for the countries security. KF-21 is fine, F-15 is nice, Rafaele is European, and only dependent on France and not whole of EU.

IMO I think they rely too much on western tech, if possible a little Russian wouldn't hurt, but I doubt that would be a wise choice considering the implications.
 

Yasar_TR

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What Indonesians are doing is, not putting all their eggs in one basket and hedging their bets for one fighter with another.
In August 2023 they signed a 13.9 billion dollar MOU with Boeing for 24 F15EX fighters.
As Indonesia is also in the process of buying Rafale fighters, and showing interest in Chinese jets, Boeing, to sweeten the deal has now offered to produce 85% of the plane locally.
To keep the 42 Rafale orders alive, Indonesia has recently signed a new MOU to purchase a further 18 Rafale jets. No planes have yet been delivered.
Although no teams have gone to negotiate with China, military watch magazine claims that a deal is close to ink for 42 J10 planes. This deal may be for quick delivery of jets from PLA’s current stock. Could be just rumours!
For 5th generation plane, they have chosen to go forward with KAAN.
Why? Because F35 is not being offered. J20 is for China only. SU57 not as stealthy and will attract Caatsa sanctions. That leaves KAAN as only contender.
But Boramae is a Low Observable plane too. If it had the right engines (which I believe Koreans are working on as the prototype has already been fired) and internal weapons bays (later iterations are going to have it) , it would become a 5th generation jet. It is already flying and being serially produced in which Indonesia has a small stake. Why not keep it alive too.
More the merrier! If Türkiye cocks up the KAAN deliveries, they will have something to fall back on.
 
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Umigami

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Although no teams have gone to negotiate with China, military watch magazine claims that a deal is close to ink for 42 J10 planes. This deal may be for quick delivery of jets from PLA’s current stock.
Local news deny this.
It's only just initial stage of talk.

Even Kaan already few steps ahead comapare to J10 because it's already in MoU
 

Nutuk

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I am tended to see this as Indonesia using these MOU's to negotiate a more favorable price for the KF21.

I have my doubts that Indonesia is really interested in Kaan
 

mehmed beg

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After yesterdays enthusiasm, I came to my senses. Nothing out of this.
Serious country doesn't procure 5 various things for basically the same thing or a bit different.
KAAN,Bromae, Su30, F16, Rafale, J10,F15.
These are not serious people, just like the Gulf countries, it is al Jizziya.
Who can plan something like this and be serious.
In my opinion, it is better to have a single weapon which you can use properly, even if it is not best, then to have something that you don't fully understand or support.
This is a joke
 

IC3M@N FX

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Perhaps Indonesia has a bigger plan here. Maybe they want to bring all Airplane providers on board but play them off against each other to get the best package in terms of price-performance ratio.
At least, that's how I would proceed. Why should I pay more and get less when I can get the same for less?
Secondly, Turkey is not stupid; it has been branded for decades when it comes to embargoes and sanctions. It will not share technology with anyone or outsource production lines unless it gets something binding and tangible in return.
Especially not when Indonesia has behaved so unreliably toward South Korea.
At the same time, however, one must also understand Indonesia. The KF 21 is burdened with tons of US equipment in the aircraft with ITAR regulations, which means that the US can kick Indonesia out of the production line overnight or withhold spare parts even though it is a co-developer.
For a nation that wants to be as independent as possible from the US and China and wants to export, this is a no-go.
 

mTT

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EXCLUSIVE | Roketsan Exports ÇAKIR Cruise Missile to Indonesia!


— According to information obtained by SavunmaSanayiST; ÇAKIR has achieved multiple export successes even before entering service. Joint production of ÇAKIR will also be carried out in Indonesia.


— With a range of over 150 kilometers, the ÇAKIR Missile Family consists of 8 different missiles in 3 separate groups, enabling the simultaneous fulfillment of various security units' needs.


— Developed with a modular architecture, the ÇAKIR Missile Family is categorized into four main groups: Anti-Ship Missiles (IIR, RF, Hybrid), Electronic Warfare Missiles, Cruise Missiles (IIR, RF, Hybrid), and Swarm Sensor Cruise Missiles. This design aims to meet the operational needs of institutions such as the Turkish Land Forces Command, Naval Forces Command, Air Forces Command, and the National Intelligence Organization.


— Weighing 275 kilograms, the ÇAKIR Missile stands out with its over-150-kilometer range. Thanks to its relatively light weight for its range, the ÇAKIR Missile can be carried in multiples even on aerial platforms with limited payload capacity.


— Equipped with a warhead weighing approximately 70 kilograms, the missile uses a "High-Explosive Semi-Penetrating Fragmentation-Effect Thermobaric" warhead, making it effective against all types of targets, whether armored or unarmored.

 

uçuyorum

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Not putting all your eggs in one basket is something, but you buy like 2 different types of jet for that, not 5. Although we are also considering F16 or F35 and Eurofighter in addition to Kaan, but our situation is we don't know if any of those would be sold to us so we pursue all possibilities. Indonesia already has options. They may still buy it but will they be able to use it effectively? Will they waste too much money?
 

TheInsider

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Kaan is the main target for Indonesia, but they want to reduce the risks associated with the Kaan project, which is why they wanted Kaan with a national engine. BTW, T+0 of the project will start with the flight of the second prototype. The first delivery in the 84th month and the final delivery in the 120th month. Rafale/J-10C is a stop gap measure until Indonesia gets 5th generation fighters. They are not direct competitors. Indonesia also doesn't want to ditch KFX just in case Kaan fails.

IMHO, Koreans made a huge mistake with KFX. Even if they manage to turn it into a true 5th-generation fighter, it will have many shortcomings compared to KAAN. It will have lower MTOW, a smaller internal weapons bay, and shorter range, which is not good for a country like Indonesia, which has countless islands and is surrounded by a huge ocean. A fighter designed from scratch as a 5th-generation fighter will always have an advantage against something that is reengineered to be a 5th-generation fighter. Kaan also has ample space for future expansions.
 

Kitra

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After yesterdays enthusiasm, I came to my senses. Nothing out of this.
Serious country doesn't procure 5 various things for basically the same thing or a bit different.
KAAN,Bromae, Su30, F16, Rafale, J10,F15.
These are not serious people, just like the Gulf countries, it is al Jizziya.
Who can plan something like this and be serious.
In my opinion, it is better to have a single weapon which you can use properly, even if it is not best, then to have something that you don't fully understand or support.
This is a joke
They are not the same thing.

Indonesia wants a 5th gen figther, hence why the joined the KF21 project but was later refused the 5th gen variant by USA due ITAR. Indonesia were only allowed to join the 4th gen figther program with external weapons. Hence Indonesia more or less lost interest in a very expensive 4th gen KF21.

So, they were looking for alternatives but 5th gen are hard to get by so they looked for cheaper 4th gen figthers. This was their only option until KAAN, hence their interest in our figther with the expressed requirement of domestic engine.


This is a win-win situation, where Indonesia gets 5thbgen figthers and some production/technology, while Turket get financing and a second production site.
 

Nutuk

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The media and also SSM is presenting this as a sale which is misleading.

There is currently no contract or sale, but there is a serious interest and a MOU has been signed to look into 48 + 12 sale. Both sides are going to do studies whether they can come to an agreement, this involves from eventual tech transfer to funding loans.

Regard it as is, first steps towards a possible sale and not the crap that many media outlets make it look like "Kaan is going to Indonesia" euphoria.
 

Zafer

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The media and also SSM is presenting this as a sale which is misleading.

There is currently no contract or sale, but there is a serious interest and a MOU has been signed to look into 48 + 12 sale. Both sides are going to do studies whether they can come to an agreement, this involves from eventual tech transfer to funding loans.

Regard it as is, first steps towards a possible sale and not the crap that many media outlets make it look like "Kaan is going to Indonesia" euphoria.
This means when technical aspects go according to the plan the sales will be realized.
Whether the technicalities will be realized is up to the skills of Turkish engineers, and we Turks trust their skills based on what we have seen so far.
 

urban mine

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They are not the same thing.

Indonesia wants a 5th gen figther, hence why the joined the KF21 project but was later refused the 5th gen variant by USA due ITAR. Indonesia were only allowed to join the 4th gen figther program with external weapons. Hence Indonesia more or less lost interest in a very expensive 4th gen KF21.

So, they were looking for alternatives but 5th gen are hard to get by so they looked for cheaper 4th gen figthers. This was their only option until KAAN, hence their interest in our figther with the expressed requirement of domestic engine.


This is a win-win situation, where Indonesia gets 5thbgen figthers and some production/technology, while Turket get financing and a second production site.
Who is spreading such rumors? Seeing the same nonsense I saw on x here is giving me a headache.

Please tell me the basis for your claim that Indonesia participated in the KF-X program because it wanted a 5th generation fighter jet.

If not, please visit the KF-X thread. I will kindly explain it to you.
 

Huelague

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Well our deliveries take priority, if planned rate is 24 per year ( and not immediately, so it will ramp up slowly) then 3-4 years only deliveries to TurAF
T.Kotil said, we can increase the number to 4 planes per month, without problems.
 

Huelague

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“Not putting all your eggs in one basket” is one thing, but purchasing half dozen baskets, is another. For me, it sounds of a logistical nightmare.
 

Afif

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“Not putting all your eggs in one basket” is one thing, but purchasing half dozen baskets, is another.

But they didn't purchase half a dozen baskets yet. These are MOUs. They can have as many of them as they want.
 

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