TR Defence Exports & Updates

[Yasar_TR]

Portugal don't have the money, manpower and expertise to operate 6 large frigates. Their tenders are always slow, small and take years to conclude with everchanging requirements. Present Istif with Euro equipment for Portugal do make sense. I expect to see 1-2 F110s for commonality with Spanish, and 2-4 other lighter designs to be picked, with very possibly seeing just 2 F110s and cancelling the rest, restarting a light frigate/heavy OPV program instead.

With 10.6 million population and 290 billion dollar GDP they are similar to Greece in population and 20% richer in GDP.
I guess their naval security is not amongst their priorities. But being a NATO member country and having to spend 3% to 5% of their GDP on defence, they are “expected” to spend between 10 billion to 14 billion dollars on defence every year.
They do have few good shipyards that build naval vessels. But as you say they are slow and their naval investment program seems a bit anaemic.
It is a shame to see such a once powerful seafaring nation to be in such pitiful state. From late 1500s to late 1600s the Portuguese navy was probably the most powerful navy in the world.

 

[Sanchez]

Romanian Heavy IFV tender with Tulpar as a participant.

"Local manufacture starting from 27th vehicle
Tech transfers like ballistic protection (incl add-on armor)
Deciders: price, mobility stats, armor, ammo capacity
Space - 8 seats
It will come down to the most cost/performance. 35% cost 65% stats"

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1943318470264852896

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1945812004435849584

 

[Sanchez]

Or maybe it was. Claim of Romania buying a single Hisar Class ship, maybe one of the already built ones.

"The strange case of a single corvette: The mysterious corvette that Romania is buying is from Turkey and it knows the class and specifications. Political and defense industry sources have confirmed to DefenseRomania on various channels that Romania will acquire a light corvette from Turkey. A decision that is raising many eyebrows.

"In this security context, the members of the Council analyzed and approved, in today's meeting, the provision of the Romanian Naval Forces with a new light corvette-type ship, capable of executing, in the shortest possible time, a multitude of missions, in order to initiate the necessary steps by the Ministry of National Defense to carry out the acquisition.

Our sources later confirmed that the purchase of a "single light corvette" will be made from Turkey. However, we do not know what offset component there will be - if any - and how the Romanian defense industry will be involved. Our sources also told us that it is a Hisar-class corvette."

Ciudatul caz al unei singure corvete: Misterioasa corvetă pe care România o cumpără e din Turcia și cunoaște clasa și specificațiile

Surse politice și din industria de apărare au confirmat pe canale diferite pentru DefenseRomania că România va achiziționa o corvetă ușoară din Turcia. O decizie care ridică multe...

www.defenseromania.ro

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1945954253387780120

"The total value for achieving operational capability is approximately 265 million Euros, excluding VAT, less the NSM ship-to-ship missile launch system. The estimated acquisition value of the ship from Turkey, in the current configuration, is approximately 223 million Euros, excluding VAT. The delivery time is extremely short: almost 6 months, in the current configuration. The ship will then be equipped with the combat systems requested by the Naval Forces, in a shipyard in Romania," the Ministry of National Defence claims."

Detalii despre corveta ușoară pe care România o cumpără din Turcia: Cât va costa nava și ce pregătește Armata în paralel - HotNews.ro

Diferențele față de corveta Sigma țin de lipsa sonarului din chilă, a unor elemente constructive de tip stealth (greu detectabile de către radar), precum și

hotnews.ro

Desan had contracted/rented a shipyard in Romania this year. Maybe that facility will be used for the retrofit. Desan is one of the shipyards that will build a new Hisar Class ship.

Piece is not great on details. For one, there's no Hisar SAM on Akhisar, it wasn't delivered with one and there's no prototype for it even, only drawings. How can it be delivered with SAMs in 6 months if they don't exist yet. Same with Gökdeniz, it doesn't have one and it wasn't contracted with one. If Romania wants it, they need to sign another deal with Aselsan for it.

 

[Sanchez]

Interestingly no geographical signifier this time.

"ASELSAN has signed export contracts with its international customers with a total amount of 75 Million USD regarding the sales of radar and guided munitions systems."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947189430332367212

 

[Umigami]

Detail of Indonesian Merah Putih Frigate with some Turkish systems
View attachment 76153

I think this is the mete han radar

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947667248581128265

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947687520793464948

 

[Sanchez]

I think this is the mete han radar

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947667248581128265

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947687520793464948

It is. Indonesia is its first user. It was redubbed as Cenk-350N few months ago.

 

[Sanchez]

Multiple Ejder 6x6s at Kayseri 2. ABFM, including those with Georgian camo. We haven't saw any Georgian Ejders in years. I wonder if they are being serviced here or were returned and being refurbished to be sold to other countries. One on the left both have the Georgian camo and the more recent sand color on rear door.

View attachment 75921

Here they are.
View attachment 76279

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1941239803166720457

And the saga continues! Ejder 6x6 spotted in Syria.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947780150579630398

 

[Ripley]

Maybe...

Chief of Japan's Naval Forces visiting IDEF:

I came to discover the excellent systems produced by Turkey.

Reconnaissance, surveillance, and intelligence operations are very critical in Japan. That’s why we are very interested in Bayraktar’s UAVs.

Turkey makes decisions very quickly. This is very different from Japan. We are learning a lot from Turkey.

I believe that cooperation between Turkish and Japanese companies will deepen even further.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947913955415908493

When a Japanese official admires your way and says they are learning from you, they are not complimenting you, they really mean they learn from you to better theirs.

Moral of the story, there’s always a better or efficient or faster one. Look for it.
“Seek knowledge even if it be in China” (Prophet Muhammed (sav))

 

[Ripley]

Bro, @Anmdt had clarified few years ago that Istif Class had found its natural size and weight limit in TCG Istanbul. So anything bigger and heavier is not going to be Istif Class.
Portuguese are looking for various classes of ships from 4000 tons up 5000 tons to 6000 tons; probably 2 each. (please see the translation below). Our Istanbul Class is a 3100 ton ship (A very light frigate).

Portugal has two overseas territories; Azores (1500km away) and Madeira (1000km away) out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean which is prone to heavy swells and adverse sea conditions. So they need ships with hulls that can manage the weather of the Atlantic ocean.

quote:
@Defence360 recently received information that the @MarinhaPT is seeking to replace the Vasco da Gama and Bartolomeu Dias Class frigates with 6 frigates. @MarinhaPT is considering the acquisition of ships with 4000 t, 5000 t and 6000 t of displacement, according to the same source.
unquote.

We can offer them smaller versions of our TF2000 destroyer. But would you want to buy a ship that is not even materialised? There has to be real good incentives to bring them round to us!

We need 4000 to 5000 ton ships ourselves. May be developing and building them together can be the incentives to swing them round.

Portugal don't have the money, manpower and expertise to operate 6 large frigates. Their tenders are always slow, small and take years to conclude with everchanging requirements. Present Istif with Euro equipment for Portugal do make sense. I expect to see 1-2 F110s for commonality with Spanish, and 2-4 other lighter designs to be picked, with very possibly seeing just 2 F110s and cancelling the rest, restarting a light frigate/heavy OPV program instead.

There are so many discussions about the necessity of a 5000 t design in the forum, I really lost track of it.
I was wondering, can we convince them with price range and a fast time line from design to delivery for a new hull. A lighter TF2000, of course, would be among the options as well.

 

[Yasar_TR]

There are so many discussions about the necessity of a 5000 t design in the forum, I really lost track of it.
I was wondering, can we convince them with price range and a fast time line from design to delivery for a new hull. A lighter TF2000, of course, would be among the options as well.

It all depends on how the buyer is manipulated whilst listening to the buyer’s needs, and putting that at the top of the list. There is also the matter of how these negotiations are conducted behind closed doors.

Regarding TF2000, the real question is whether we want a ”Jack-of-all-trades” kind of ship or an “expert” in what it is designed to do kind of ship.
A smaller but still capable midsize frigate can give you the latter in abundance if you design it correctly. Portuguese approach is clever. They want 4000ton, 5000ton and 6000 ton ships. That will address many individual areas of their navy.

 

[Oublious]

 

[Oublious]

They have already sign export contract for the new CENK 4 axis radar.

 

[Sanchez]

They have already sign export contract for the new CENK 4 axis radar.

Yes, to Indonesia. Old news.

 

[Oublious]

Yes, to Indonesia. Old news.

yes not cenk350...

he says this solution refering to CENK350.

ASELSAN Provides Mete Han MFR to Indonesia’s Future Frigates | TURDEF

Indonesia’s future Merah Putih-class frigates will be equipped with ASELSAN’s Mete Han multi-function AESA radar, marking a new export in naval radars.

turdef.com

 

[Shtr]

Gürcan Okumuş is a really great man. He deserves more.

 

[TheInsider]

Tomorrow, TUSAŞ will sign the biggest export deal in the history of the republic.

 

[Oublious]

Tomorrow, TUSAŞ will sign the biggest export deal in the history of the republic.

?

what...

 

[2033]

Tomorrow, TUSAŞ will sign the biggest export deal in the history of the republic.

It's definitely Saudi Arabia.

? 100 Kaan ?
? $20 billion ?

 

[Fuzuli NL]

It's definitely Saudi Arabia.

? 100 Kaan ?
? $20 billion ?

Sounds about right. Ballpark of what I predicted too.

 

[Saithan]

It all depends on how the buyer is manipulated whilst listening to the buyer’s needs, and putting that at the top of the list. There is also the matter of how these negotiations are conducted behind closed doors.

Regarding TF2000, the real question is whether we want a ”Jack-of-all-trades” kind of ship or an “expert” in what it is designed to do kind of ship.
A smaller but still capable midsize frigate can give you the latter in abundance if you design it correctly. Portuguese approach is clever. They want 4000ton, 5000ton and 6000 ton ships. That will address many individual areas of their navy.

I do not believe Portugal is going to be jumping on the cheap ADA class solutions or Istif. Please look at the country's location and you'll realize that it's different kind of sea than Med. Sea. If there is a 4-6k ton Frigate design out there that they can use they'll get that.