TR Navy Naval Programs

I don't know if anyone has already said this but Tf 2000 will also get dedicated laser weapon from aselsan stated by akyol.

Pokemonte13 said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2091526927416762701

new orders or construction start?

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Man, i wake up to a new day and these guys pump up the number. At least consider omitting the delivered or completed and yet to be delivered ships.

Sanchez said:

All modern "warfighting" ships of Italy are 5500+ ton vessels, FREMMs, Orrizontes, the new PPA. Only the lighter armed flag carrying vessels like OPVs and few remaining corvettes are below 2500 ton. With the future PPX and EPC, even those patrol dutied ships are coming close to 3000 ton.

If we are to see 8 Tepe, then fine. 8 destroyers can do anything we do and more; if they are to stay at 4, current planning doesn't exactly cover all our future needs.

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I believe we need I-classes especially for blacksea and nearby seas for patrol and protection duties mainly and for escort duties, yet i can't seem to understand strike length VLS for gezgin and siper-2ER.

We need a mid-size frigate, yet also we are quite reluctant to develop one. Too much eggs the basket, the aircraft carrier is definitely not today's business.

The need for heavy frigates is among the top deficiencies that naval enthusiasts will focus on over the next decade. Producing a heavy ASW frigate derived from the hull of a Tepe-class Air Defense Destroyer may seem cheaper in terms of "engineering hours and R&D risks" compared to designing a hull from scratch. However, due to ASW criteria such as propulsion, transmission, and silence, as well as the main mast architecture, it would likely cost more in terms of ultimate operational cost and efficiency.

The Tepe-class was designed to utilize a CODOG configuration consisting of a massive main mast, 2 gas turbines, and 2 diesel engines. While this structure is excellent for speed and rapid reaction, it radiates a massive amount of noise underwater.

The primary weapon of a submarine hunter is "listening silently." Therefore, the modern heavy ASW frigate approach is increasingly shifting toward integrated electric propulsion systems (CODLAG/IEP). While hunting submarines, the ship shuts down its diesel engines and gas turbines completely; it proceeds using only the electricity generated by acoustically isolated generators, powered by electric motors that produce ultra-low vibration. To install complex, large electric motors and generator rooms like CODLAG or IEP inside a Tepe-class hull, you would need to redesign the ship's entire internal machinery space layout and shaft lines from scratch.

The Tepe-class will be a massive destroyer of approximately 8,300 tons. Its hull design is likely optimized primarily for hydrodynamic efficiency, seakeeping, and, most importantly, Low Radar Cross Section (RCS). In an ASW ship, managing the acoustic signature (underwater noise) is vital rather than the radar cross-section of the hull. In a heavy ASW ship, there are numerous other details, such as installing double-layer acoustic mounts (raft mounting) under the machinery, integrating special masking systems (Prairie-Masker) that blow air under the hull to prevent cavitation (bubble noise) around the propeller, and shaping the hull form to minimize the water flow noise reaching the bow sonar. Attempting to acoustically isolate an 8,300-ton air defense hull multiplies both the acoustic isolation infrastructure and the costs due to the tonnage. A massive hull means more underwater friction and, consequently, more noise. The ideal range for an ocean-going ASW frigate is to remain within the 5,000 to 6,000-ton band.

Another derivation problem is the main mast architecture. The main mast of the Tepe-class will feature an integrated mast structure with the Multifunctional Phased Array Radar. This will house AESA panels weighing tons, consuming very high power (at the MW level), requiring serious liquid cooling infrastructure, and costing astronomical amounts. A heavy ASW ship does not need a monster like ÇAFRAD on top. To convert a superstructure and mast configured according to the heavy ÇAFRAD architecture for ASW purposes, you need to recalculate the ship's center of gravity (metacentric height). Ballast revisions must be made to maintain the ship's stability in place of the removed heavy radars.

Consequently, deriving the Istif-class hull by enlarging it will also create its own separate web of problems. I believe the cleanest solution is to start project preparations now, ensuring that the construction of an ASW frigate of around 5,000 tons begins immediately after the first Tepe-class destroyer is launched.

Anmdt said:

I believe we need I-classes especially for blacksea and nearby seas for patrol and protection duties mainly and for escort duties, yet i can't seem to understand strike length VLS for gezgin and siper-2ER.

We need a mid-size frigate, yet also we are quite reluctant to develop one. Too much eggs the basket, the aircraft carrier is definitely not today's business.

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Dear , how many billion dollars do you need for your dream Turkish Navy? I would give all money from Turkish treasury without hesitation, if I were Padişah Because I am sure you would spend wisely.

Which warships would you prefer right now?

UkroTurk said:

Dear , how many billion dollars do you need for your dream Turkish Navy? I would give all money from Turkish treasury without hesitation, if I were Padişah Because I am sure you would spend wisely.

Which warships would you prefer right now?

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For the dream i'd need a trillion dollar. If we were being realistic i would simply remove the aircraft carrier and focus at tepe, milden and a multi purpose frigate until the designs mature and reaches to the serial building phase.

I was saying Türkiye's shipbuilding capacity has to expand and good karma, 6 months on hitting 71 simultaneous builds already.

Anmdt said:

I believe we need I-classes especially for blacksea and nearby seas for patrol and protection duties mainly and for escort duties, yet i can't seem to understand strike length VLS for gezgin and siper-2ER.

We need a mid-size frigate, yet also we are quite reluctant to develop one. Too much eggs the basket, the aircraft carrier is definitely not today's business.

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The VLS of first TCG İstanbul can fire Siper 1 or siper 2 ?

Zafer said:

I was saying Türkiye's shipbuilding capacity has to expand and good karma, 6 months on hitting 71 simultaneous builds already.

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İt depends what u count as shipbulding but main warships are just 12 - 15 under constcrution others are landing ships , costat guard boats etc
We are behind Japan , S korea in shipbulding ,They can build massive destroyers and faster , We are in pair of italy i can say .
China , russia , USA are another level since they can build massive SLBM submarines & aircraft carriers

BalkanTurk90 said:

İt depends what u count as shipbulding but main warships are just 12 - 15 under constcrution others are landing ships , costat guard boats etc
We are behind Japan , S korea in shipbulding ,They can build massive destroyers and faster , We are in pair of italy i can say .
China , russia , USA are another level since they can build massive SLBM submarines & aircraft carriers

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In Türkiye, warships and submarines are produced using an advanced modular/block construction method; technically, different blocks can be produced simultaneously in different private and military shipyards and then assembled at the main shipyard.

This block construction model enables private shipyards to adapt rapidly to combat ship programs. Looking at it from this perspective, the fact that the Milgem program (esp. the Istif-class frigate construction activities) has largely been transferred to private shipyards will create a great capacity leverage in the coming years. A shipyard producing frigate blocks in Yalova today will naturally be capable of producing destroyer blocks in 10 years.

Whether this was a planned strategy from the beginning or an organic evolution, the infrastructure necessary to reach a massive regional production capacity has begun to form. In my humble opinion, Turkish shipyards can become major naval hubs for friendly and allied countries in the near future. We're already starting to be associated with this position.

However, this expansion has critical secondary and tertiary dimensions. On the construction side, subsystem development, local component production, and supply chain volumes must grow in parallel. Furthermore, as the navy expands, ensuring a significant increase in qualified naval personnel and engineers is a monumental task. We need comprehensive national programs that will foster maritime consciousness and guide young minds into this.

dBSPL said:

In Türkiye, warships and submarines are produced using an advanced modular/block construction method

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Who doesn't? Isn't it basically industry standard?

The number and size/class of ships we need, is depend on the current and future needs and mission. It looks like Türkiye wants to play big. Which requires a big Naval force. A very simple math.
@Yasar_TR said, we do not have that money for such ships. Maybe he is right, but it doesn’t mean that we do not need these ships, because we can not afford these ships. But who knows, if we can get enough customers for our ships, we will be able to afford these ships.

BalkanTurk90 said:

İt depends what u count as shipbulding but main warships are just 12 - 15 under constcrution others are landing ships , costat guard boats etc
We are behind Japan , S korea in shipbulding ,They can build massive destroyers and faster , We are in pair of italy i can say .
China , russia , USA are another level since they can build massive SLBM submarines & aircraft carriers

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I don't know about type numbers but there is talk that we are next to China now in the current number of navy ships being built. It is a known fact that SK and Japan have bigger shipbuilding capacity I wouldn't argue otherwise and actually I mentioned this in my February 7 post as SK is in for building ships in the US, 20 per year. Shipyard personnel are well paid I am sure there is no supply of people wanting to work in shipyards. Supply chain bottlenecks aside we can possibly have more money to invest in shipbuilding considering the Mecca Pact being in place already. Once Tepe class is go full steam building tonnage totals will be much more than today too. So I am hopeful further expansion will come as we put out our new requirements and complete building our new class first ships.

Full steam ahead!

BalkanTurk90 said:

The VLS of first TCG İstanbul can fire Siper 1 or siper 2 ?

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Yes, it is the strike length version ~8 meters.

Sanchez said:

Who doesn't? Isn't it basically industry standard?

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There are tiers of block construction, dictated by block size, and block equipment. If we put 5 tiers to it, we are at 3 and attempting for 4.
The tier 1 is also called as block construction yet it is primitive.

Anmdt said:

yet i can't seem to understand strike length VLS for gezgin and siper-2ER.

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What about future ASW missiles?

On the other hand The Bigger is the better Incase of operationol changes would be useful.

Türkiye is making the MUGEM, it will have a take off ramp and not a catapult with modularity to enable upgrading to a catapult down the road. Meanwhile President Trump orders the military to use the old school steam catapults for new carrier builds instead of the EMALS system that is installed on their latest carrier USS Gerald R. Ford. So Houston there is a problem with the EMALS system. On the flip side of the world China has made its own electric catapult and we have no idea how effective it is. Chinese EMALS is supposed to be treating smaller planes like drones better as it can adjust acceleration per the launched aircraft.

When comes the time to upgrade the MUGEM to a catapult what will our options be? Below are some options to explore.

• Turkish EMALS capable of launching both smaller drones and large fighters
• Gas to propel the hook system
  • Steam; using some heat source to generate the steam (most suitable with nuclear reactor as it has excess heat)
  • Heated combustion gas system (running underground inside a tube and rails)
    • Gas generated by a rocket engine
    • Gas generated by a jet engine
    • Gas generated by an explosive charge
• Cable
  • Operated by electric motors (using stored energy in batteries and capacitors + mains)
  • By Dropping an elevated mass to gravity

Cycle times is a main factor in effectiveness for sortie generation, nuclear steam has 45 seconds interval

Zafer said:

Meanwhile President Trump orders the military to use the old school steam catapults for new carrier builds instead of the EMALS system that is installed on their latest carrier USS Gerald R. Ford. So Houston there is a problem with the EMALS system.

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No, there isn't, Trump is just a senile old idiot who has no idea what he is talking about. One of the "reasons" he gave for not wanting emals is because the moron thinks magnets stop working when they get wet.

boredaf said:

No, there isn't, Trump is just a senile old idiot who has no idea what he is talking about. One of the "reasons" he gave for not wanting emals is because the moron thinks magnets stop working when they get wet.

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An idiot with major executive power