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The point remains. These are attributes assigned to Rudra; the identification of Rudra with Shiva, and the transference of these attributes to Shiva, and the consideration of Shiva as the main identity of the two, was subsequent and - this is an opinion - clearly influenced by the increasing...

We will talk when you are not so agitated.

What subject do you want to debate? Who will moderate it? Is it to be on a proposition or just a broad subject? Do you know anything about debating? I've been on a team with Kalyan Chatterjee, in school, in college, at the institute. We met Shashi baba more than once, and beat him, except when...

If you mean quoting seedy authors on the fringe is your definition of facts, I am at a disadvantage. Second, if you are serious about debating, decide the rules. Don't just use words without meaning them.

If you are seriously interested in a discussion, I should like to address the points about the spread of the Indus Valley Civilisation into Central Asia; artifacts have been found in the very areas that the Indo-Iranians should have visited in their transit to three different destinations. A...

Nice try. Hindutva has nothing to do with Sanatan Dharma, with Hinduism, whether or not you shrink from that term as all well-brought up Hindu regressives would. Please don't shove pictures into my face that I saw sixty years ago. Please confine yourself to your masonry, and leave history...

It is precisely between this and the next 'fact' that you have mentioned that there is a gulf. Placing the Saraswati between the Yamuna and the Sutlej DOES NOT identify the Ghaggra as that Saraswati; it merely encourages speculation that this might be a possible candidate. That is not proof...

Really? Apart from the identification of Shiva with Rudra, who in much later texts, and much later writings, got identified with the angry form of Shiva, what did you have in mind? Do explain. Which researcher? There has been a lot of speculation; how precisely have the two sets of references...

Please do not bang your head against a wall. There is an easy way to avoid being quoted. Use it. As for your researcher who has spent his life digging up unconnected facts and currying favour with regressive Hindus, neither he nor his kind have found any acceptance in any respectable academic...

I note that you believe that printing 'in fact' after any statement makes it true. Bad news - it doesn't. Since there is NO mention of Siva in the Rg Veda, it is only the wishful thinking of regressive people that can draw a connection between the two, based on subsequent writing. As for the...

I do not want to quote idle minds with no background in these matters except their sympathetic attitude towards arch-Hindu revisionists. Every post, every message is open to all. If you wish to send closed messages, do so - outside the forum's transactions.

You are right, in that this cannot be ruled out entirely.

Fair comment.

Like the curate's egg, good in parts. This part is NOT good: "But we do know these people would have coexsisted with Vedic Aryans and there are clear departures in brahminic Hinduism that came after Vedic Hinduism and other indo European religions but all historians do agree some aspects did...

That pure crap has been discarded around 80 years ago. The only ones who fall back on it are those who are flailing about to make points that have been dismissed decades ago. Specifically, these are people with an obsession with the Out Of India theory; no amount of contrary evidence will...

Fair enough. This is a balanced report.

What Aryan-Dravidian theory is this? These are two groups of languages, and have nothing to do with ethnicity.

Certainly, there was depopulation, and there might well have been popular movement from west to east. The dates matter; the nearest dates available are that the IVC existed between 3400 BCE and 1300 BCE, and that its period of maximal growth was perhaps 2400 BCE to 1900 BCE. The Ghaggra-Hakra...

There is no evidence bearing out these fanciful suggestions, none whatever.

Claiming, thousands of years after the event, that a god mentioned in the Rg Veda is another form of Siva, and that Siva was a god worshipped in the IVC is an old trope of the Hindutvavadi reinterpretation of Indian history. The links are so tenuous that it should be embarrassing to even bring...