TR Casual Discussion Çay Bahçesi

[Tornadoss]

Did Tengrism allow lbgt?

Ibn Fadlan reported how the Pagan Turks punished adultery and homosexuality.

Homosexuality was pretty rare among Nomads as they constantly had to have kids because the mortality rates were so high.

Plus masculinity played a big role in how the Turks lived. The Society literally gave no benefit to anybody who was weak.

Issue here is not Tengriism and homosexuality religions does not go hand in hand with homosexuality. The comment was about religion and keeping the identity there.

 

[Ryder]

Issue here is not Tengriism and homosexuality religions does not go hand in hand with homosexuality. The comment was about religion and keeping the identity there.

Turks took up many religions before Islam.

Once you take a religion and that religion becomes apart of your peoples identity.

The Turks had an identity with Tengrism. Turks also had their own identity with Islam. Gaguz Turks, Orthodox Christianity became their identity.

This was pretty normal for people who switched to a different religion that the religion became apart of their identity as centuries passed.

 

[NEKO]

Its just a fetish, don't turn it into a lifestyle.

 

[Afif]

I think marriage should be abolished all together. People can love and live together. And you can even have kids outside of marriage.

A child born outside of marriage would require both parents consenting to be parents. In case the man doesn't want, a fatherhood test can be conducted.

Some Western Countries still have archaic rules in that regard.

You'd even solve the problem with family reunification unless it's children of the parents. Spouses would need to be viable to move to a country and not just because your husband/wife is living and working in that country.

Abolishing marriage would solve many things

'Living togather' outside marriage and having kids on mass scale would completely destabilize the human civilization as whole.
And that is not a religious perspective, rather, a sociological one.

There are three fundemental things that seperates us from other species and only unique to human.

1. Consciousness.
2. Intelligence.
3. Ability to speak language.

All of which enables us to organize every aspect our lives, unlike animals.

A loose definition of human organization would be, setting rules in our social, economic and political aspects of our lives. That's how we developed civilizations.

The better a group of people is organized socially, economically and politically, the more likely they would prosper.

From the ancient time, the very first organizing structure of human society is marriage.
That's because, first and foremost we are a biological organism. Hence, the very process of organizing ourselves starts from the biological aspect of our lives.

If you abolish marriage on mass scale, no matter what ad-hoc solutions you propose to compensate the economic and child custody aspects marriage, the result is still likely to be catastrophic.

When we talk about the violation/corruption of human dignity, people generally assume we are talking in religious terms.
But it is also be a secular term. Corruption of human dignity means, living disorganized in various aspect of our lives despite having the ability to organize ourselves for better.

 

[Saithan]

'Living togather' outside marriage and having kids on mass scale would completely destabilize the human civilization as whole.
And that is not a religious perspective, rather, a sociological one.

There are three fundemental things that seperates us from other species and only unique to human.

1. Consciousness.
2. Intelligence.
3. Ability to speak language.

All of which enables us to organize every aspect our lives, unlike animals.

A loose definition of human organization would be, setting rules in our social, economic and political aspects of our lives. That's how we developed civilizations.

The better a group of people is organized socially, economically and politically, the more likely they would prosper.

From the ancient time, the very first organizing structure of human society is marriage.
That's because, first and foremost we are a biological organism. Hence, the very process of organizing ourselves starts from the biological aspect of our lives.

If you abolish marriage on mass scale, no matter what ad-hoc solutions you propose to compensate the economic and child custody aspects marriage, the result is still likely to be catastrophic.

When we talk about the violation/corruption of human dignity, people generally assume we are talking in religious terms.
But it is also be a secular term. Corruption of human dignity means, living disorganized in various aspect of our lives despite having the ability to organize ourselves for better.

I agree with some of what you said. But you’ll have to put it into perspective of how women can go to a clinic and get inseminated with a donor sperm.

then take it further from there, why should women have to put up with a partner if she can get sole custody over her child from donor sperm. A Boyfriend would have to step up anyway if he wants some fun action.

Thus I imagine civilized countries will become like Japan, Denmark etc. When you remove religion from society or marriage, as it fundamentallt gives you more freedom in a relationship.

 

[B_A]

I agree with some of what you said. But you’ll have to put it into perspective of how women can go to a clinic and get inseminated with a donor sperm.

then take it further from there, why should women have to put up with a partner if she can get sole custody over her child from donor sperm. A Boyfriend would have to step up anyway if he wants some fun action.

Thus I imagine civilized countries will become like Japan, Denmark etc. When you remove religion from society or marriage, as it fundamentallt gives you more freedom in a relationship.

Japan is a conservatist country and full of temple.....and ban same-sex marriage...

 

[Afif]

But you’ll have to put it into perspective of how women can go to a clinic and get inseminated with a donor sperm.

then take it further from there, why should women have to put up with a partner if she can get sole custody over her child from donor sperm. A Boyfriend would have to step up anyway if he wants some fun action.

Sure, indeed women can do that. No technical problem to it.
However, as an student of sociology I know statistically, children raised by two parents are on avarage better than the children raised by single mother/parent.

And yes, a boyfriend can step in. But it doesn't solve the porblem, because he will never have the the same emotional connection to the child as he would've if it was his own biological child.

And even we let go the emotional aspect of this, (which is very important btw) for a single mother it would be considerably difficult to raise a child while providing for him/her financially on her own.

I am dam sure sperm donor ain't paying the child support. And if you try to force boyfriends legally to pay it, I am pretty sure most young men won't enter such relationship to begin with.

 

[TR_123456]

Sure, indeed women can do that. No technical problem to it.
However, as an student of sociology I know statistically, children raised by two parents are on avarage better than the children raised by single mother/parent.

And yes, a boyfriend can step in. But it doesn't solve the porblem, because he will never have the the same emotional connection to the child as he would've if it was his own biological child.

And even we let go the emotional aspect of this, (which is very important btw) for a single mother it would be considerably difficult to raise a child while providing for him/her financially on her own.

I am dam sure sperm donor ain't paying the child support. And if you try to force boyfriends legally to pay it, I am pretty sure most young men won't enter such relationship to begin with.

Women doing such a thing are predominatly independent financially.

 

[Afif]

Women doing such a thing are predominatly independent financially.

That's not what we are talking about.
If I understood correctly, Saithan suggesting to do it on mass scale by abolishing marriage.

 

[TR_123456]

That's not what we are talking about.
If I understood correctly, Saithan suggesting to do it on mass scale by abolishing marriage.

Where did he state that?

 

[Afif]

Where did he state that?

Post in thread 'Çay Bahçesi' https://defencehub.live/threads/Çay-bahçesi.146/post-285359

 

[uçuyorum]

Level of this discussion

 

[Rodeo]

I am not too bothered with same-sex marriage. There are many law-abiding, tax paying decent gays. If they want to get married with their loved ones, why not? Apart from the official status, they can, thereby, have a legal case for sharing of the assets in case of divorce.

However, I am entirely against any form of adoption by gay couples. The children raised in the homes of these pairs will cause the real degeneration in the society. In fact, I am more comfortable Turkish children adopted and raised by Armenian couples than Turkish gay couples adopting them. We should put the current right-leaning parliament to use and pass laws to ban this practice for the future and seal the deal. There can't be a parliament composition that can abolish this law in the next 30 years(due to demographics).

 

[YeşilVatan]

LGBT, single motherhood, hookup culture and other alternative lifestyles should never be allowed into the mainstream. The vast majority of people should be untouched by this chaos corruption. Children should especially be protected against this phenomena. First contact with p*rn is like at 10-12 years old nowadays. That's a massive problem, it messes up whole generations of kids. The modern approach to sexuality make me sick.

Frankly, anything that blocks family formation and prevents stable two parent homes and 2.3 fertility rate should be combatted with utmost seriousness.

 

[Xenon54]

You guys are talking as if becoming gay or straight is dependant on media or something, its a natural instict as breathing, some people are just attracted to opposite sex and some to same sex, no amount of propaganda will change someones sexuality.
You can call me gay 24/7, thats not gonna change the fact that i like women and the same is the case for gays, you can not force them to love the opposite sex.

Its 2023 and we still discuss others sexuality as if we dont have more pressing issues...

 

[Heartbang]

I didn't say go back, guess you have comprehension problem. I said it to because there is no LGBT in these country unlike in Australia where he feels discomfort, mine was friendly suggestion.

Picking and prodding at my statement does not evaporate the mean spirit behind your way of thinking, or absolve you from the consequences of it.

Your way of looking into this resembles the way those hoity-toity snobs who claim they're for the working class, or the religiously persecuted, or the downtrodden while deep down they resent and undermine those same people who they claim to defend and cherish.
The kind of "friend" who lifts a man from the gutter with his right hand, only to stab him with the pair of scissors he holds in his left hand. A more sinister way of discrimination.
People with this attitude are the sole reason why the world is the way it is now.

I suggest you do some serious self-reflection before this crazy world of ours gets into the "pitchforks and torches" stage and some BLM "activist" decides you and his serrated 10" knife should really, REALLY get to know each other.

I don't want my fellow compatriots to die like a chum in the streets of Czechia.

 

[AWP]

@Ryder Maybe you should live in Afghanistan or Arabia instead of Australia if you are too bothered with LGBT movement.

The Arabs are doing great

No woke culture , no LGPTQ propaganda on kids, no LGPTQ soldiers in their army, no public Gay parade in front of your family no trans rape cases against women inside women in public or school bathroom, no police or government that enforce gender affirming surgery ... etc

 

[AWP]

Respect to Turkey and the Turkish police

 

[Ryder]

You guys are talking as if becoming gay or straight is dependant on media or something, its a natural instict as breathing, some people are just attracted to opposite sex and some to same sex, no amount of propaganda will change someones sexuality.
You can call me gay 24/7, thats not gonna change the fact that i like women and the same is the case for gays, you can not force them to love the opposite sex.

Its 2023 and we still discuss others sexuality as if we dont have more pressing issues...

Thats bs naturally men and women are attracted to each other and for centuries everybody knew this anybody who strayed from this path were considered not to be normal.

I even the WHO considered homosexuality to be a disorder until they took it down.

 

[Ryder]

Respect to Turkey and the Turkish police

Funny seeing that lesbian screeching like a parrot as she tried to run away lmaoooo