TR Casual Discussion Çay Bahçesi

[Ştutgart]

Trump's Riviera

 

[Asena_great]

 

[Ryder]

Yavuz Sultan Selim after conquering Egypt.

Went on a hunt for crocodiles. Interesting that the Ottomans encountered Nile Crocodiles in Egypt and in Sudan.

 

[Zoth]

At Aero India today.

I don't really know how to feel at this exact moment. One thing's for sure: my disdain for the USA has gotten even worse, i hope for the day that we buy nothing from the Americans anymore.

 

[Bilge adam reis]

View attachment 73415

At Aero India today.

I don't really know how to feel at this exact moment. One thing's for sure: my disdain for the USA has gotten even worse, i hope for the day that we buy nothing from the Americans anymore.

you sabotaged yourself by buying the useless S400

 

[Zoth]

you sabotaged yourself by buying the useless S400

I see no sabotage, more of realization that we should go full domestic route.

 

[Bilge adam reis]

I see no sabotage, more of realization that we should go full domestic route.

Buying a bad air defence system isn't the domestic route also you can't make everything by yourself the chips etc you get are still from foreign countries, this goes for USA as well not just us.

 

[Ryder]

I see no sabotage, more of realization that we should go full domestic route.

Shitty S400 was just the tip of the ice berg of wider Turkish-US tensions. Even if Turkiye bought it or not the Americans would have no doubt demanded other Bs to take away the F35s.

Still the S400 was just a middle finger to the USA. I dont think there was any thinking when it came towards it while the USA taking the F35s was their way of flipping the middle finger to Turkiye.

Turkiye going with a more proactive and more assertive foreign policy that mainly fits its interests is what the USA does not like.

 

[Nilgiri]

View attachment 73415

At Aero India today.

I don't really know how to feel at this exact moment. One thing's for sure: my disdain for the USA has gotten even worse, i hope for the day that we buy nothing from the Americans anymore.

So,India operates the S-400 yet the US sends the f-35?
Remember,they kicked us out of the program for a not operational S-400 a NATO ally.
Shows the US cant be trusted.

No country can be trusted especially further you are sociopolitically, socioeconomically, historically etc (World is a big thing)....it is all relative and relationships wax and wane as they do due to circumstances of time and space. i.e I remember very well how you described Turk-Azeri relationship as brotherhood (though Azeris have to manage things with Russia and Iran given reality) and maybe India enjoys such a thing with Nepal given deep bonds (that nationstate is nominal thing over it, i.e there is complete freedom of movement between citizens of both countries, and Nepal has reality of China that it has to manage things as well with similarly to your context).

i.e we can make (warm) exceptions to the norm, but the norm is the overall default past these things in the world that is colder to context and "doesn't get you" deep enough like cultural brother. Turkiye is just sufficiently different country in end to "European NATO" (old western or new member eastern components) and "North American NATO" (which has US which is a superpower engaging in Asia, which is where India comes in w.r.t China etc). In fact I would put Turkiye in its completely different category as "Turkiye NATO" or Anatolian NATO etc. European + North American NATO perceives Anatolian NATO as one foot in, one foot out compared to them....whatever the underlying processes of erosion that have occured in last 30 - 40 years to change it from cold war one.

Way I see it is Turkiye's relationship with US is on glide path downwards after cold war ended, the circumstances changed (PKK et al, Iraq war, Israel, Arab world, ISIS, Syria civil war as to how US engaged in these with the bad rating score you know best and can assign regd Turkish own interests - maybe the Iran vector is the only underlying one there is deeper intersection above a 5/10 etc these days).

Whereas US relationship with India is increasingly China-focused (totally different country and context to Russia w.r.t European NATO)

i.e It is kind of opposite of upwards improvement India-US slowly and cautiously have taken (compared to how it was in cold war)....i.e our interests with US align near 10/10 w.r.t PRC.

NATO in Europe was aligned collectively against USSR and Russia fills this role now (for much of US and Europe) after the "Yeltsin and early-Putin detente" phase of 90s and 00's is over and Putin's Russia unhappy with Ukraine's politics and what he saw as encroachment (into crimea given Russian naval base there, and political treatment of Russians in Donbass etc)

In any case US-India one regd anything to do with F-35 (given S-400 specifically) is fraught with fine print details. How to integrate it cohesively (that needs US cooperation + cost to do) given S-400 is baked in and F-35s will be operating in S-400 airspace (and rest of Indian-origin SAM + BMD network), there is all kind of problems even from purely technical standpoint.

i.e the underlying reason the aero india participants of top tier stuff here from adversial entities (Su-57 and F-35) would have most of their radar modes switched off, fresnel lens on etc....and the whole airshow is well away from where S-400s and other heavy Indian AD networks are situated (in north).

Su-57 with Russia would likely be quicker to integrate (given Russian relationship with India since USSR times)...but problem is their production capacity given war with Ukraine (and post war situation they need to divert everything for to flex/deter/maintain).

US has good production capacity in comparison to deliver (a number of squadrons till India can bring AMCA online), but the problem is this integration + political, security aspect of how much US would again trust India to fully air gap S-400 from Russia's radar technicians etc....and then the utility of all of this for India's own RnD and knowhow to use in next chunk of decades too (i.e dependent on how much of a threat China is to India compared to US/West in end...which is simply a very heavy differential now)....and again how US perceives and adjudges that....and puts some premium or fine print carveouts for it.

If interested members want to discuss more on it in this thread.

 

[Asena_great]

hüseyin kıvrıkoğlu cheif of general staff after 28th şubat and the guy who said if irtica will last for 1000 years so does 28th şubat saying that we cleared fetö members from army but civilian authority should also clear them from state apparatus

admiral Güven Erkaya head of navy during 28th şubat declaring that the threat of irtica activity rised to the same level that of PKK

Yaşar Büyükanıt cheif of general staff during late 2000s says anyone who wants to break apart turkey will only find nightmare

 

[Asena_great]

at 1:45 the generals says some of them with back turban and green flag ( irtica) and some of them in revelutionary cloth with flag of yellow and start of red ( PKK) know this all of them drinking from same water source they feed from same source and they have only one purpose to beat the nation that they couldn't in çanakkale

tribute to hüseyin kıvrıkoğlu greatest guardian of the Republic after ismail hakkı karadayı who defy the imperlist designs for the country. these designs was realized under Erdogan