TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[boredaf]

Oh , No no isnt ,, while u and some others that want Turkiye to buy 4 Tf 2000or 4 I class that are enough(according to some) and 100 Kaans fighters are so glad with 23 billion to give USA for 40 f16 thats his time is over (time for 5gen fighters)
and 79 upgrades of older f16 .
And USA with that money to give free weapons to greece / israel / ukraine zionism regimes .
First Turkiye should ask tongive back money that we sent for f35 , thats Turkish peoples money .
Second no weapon from USA or others should be bought while out industry is building our own weapons.
Turkiye should buy another S400 sytem long range and show middle finger to USA . If Turkiye do that order 23 billion it will be huge mistake that people never forget and forgive

You are so misinformed and/or ignorant that you truly do not deserve a response or any kind of reaction other than this one.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Those numbers include every single aircraft in service, starting from ab initio trainers to SAR helos, transports, other assets etc. its not just fighters.

Again, 800 fighters are just fantasy numbers nowadays. It's not 1960s anymore.

Of course, that's unless you want to go fight Greek Rafales with SF 260 trainer. Have fun with that

Thats only airforce branch and its aircrafts . Every single aircraft of whole (Turkiye military) is 1100+ aircrafts . Only airforce has some 600 if i am correct thats why is not in that top 10

 

[I_Love_F16]

Turkiye should buy another S400 sytem long range and show middle finger to USA

Yeah, we should buy another S400 system and leave it in a hangar like the first one.

 

[Spitfire9]

I have a question:

Let's say the procurement budget of TurAF for the next 20 years is $X Billion dollars. Out of this:

$ 20 billion goes to F-16V
$ 7-10 billion for Eurofighters
$ 7-10 billion for F-35s

How much will be left to complete the development of TFX and its engine after you have taken out some 40 billion dollars from your procurement budget and spent it on not one but 3 different combat aircraft?

Even if you could somehow do all of this, how many TFX are you gonna be able to actually procure with whatever is left?

At this point, I'm starting to believe that buying anything other than F-16 kits creates an unacceptable financial risk for the TFX.

Maybe that is the intent here.

Is the block on EF supply being lifted? I reckon that Turkiye should establish the answer.

If EF supply to Turkiye can be unblocked, what about just buying the F-16 kits and Eurofighters? I don't recall which Eurofighter partner country is allocated marketing to Turkiye. If it is the UK, UK assembly work is drying up. I think that there are only about 10 aircraft left to assemble. Very different to the F-16 assembly line backlog.

 

[Sanchez]

I don't recall which Eurofighter partner country is allocated marketing to Turkiye.

It used to be Italy 15 years ago. Probably would be UK now.

Is the block on EF supply being lifted?

As far as we know, Turkey hasn't yet officially requested to by EF2000, so there's no actual blockage, just that Germany was being "unhelpful".

 

[Spitfire9]

It used to be Italy 15 years ago. Probably would be UK now.


As far as we know, Turkey hasn't yet officially requested to by EF2000, so there's no actual blockage, just that Germany was being "unhelpful".

It could be useful to find out for sure if Eurofighter can be supplied. If so

- LM does not have a potential captive customer (so cannot charge highest price)
- political risk of future supply cuts is altered (possibly lower than with US)
- Eurofighter delivery may be much faster than F-16 delivery

 

[Saithan]

TuAF fleet of jets are old. An considering we’re 79 of them needs an upgrade kit I’d say their usefulness is not very high. Those that are in the Özgür program are similar.

So how many F-16 do we actually have that we’re happy with ?

Turkey - Turk Hava Kuvvetleri - Turkish Air Force - TuAF - F-16.net

Learn about Turkey — Turk Hava Kuvvetleri - Turkish Air Force - TuAF. Explore this F-16 operator’s history, aircraft, and contributions to their air force on F-16.net.

www.f-16.net

240 of the F16 are from mid-late 90’s

which means they’re 25 years old or more. That doesn’t leave us much.

while the numbers I gave may have been exaggerated, if you write of the old jets the numbers come down.

The point is to continue building jet forever. You can always sell them or station them elsewhere. Friendly Nations needing a hand in patrol duty etc.

There are a lot of options, if we’re willing to take the risk.

 

[DBdev]

Yeah, we should buy another S400 system and leave it in a hangar like the first one.

Turkish s400 is active and protecting the Turkish capital against nuclear ballistic missiles, stealth air planes, cruise missiles with nukes that can come when we all are sleeping. It is located in Mürted airport and it is very much active all the time. There are pictures of the radar spinning next to barracks in the airport. It is not 100% but definitely better than nothing or having some fully American controlled F35s with fake Turkish flag plastered over it.

Istanbul, other cities are still all open to nuclear attacks. Range:

Turkey’s S-400 “Growler” Goes Operational Near Ankara - T-Intelligence

Turkey’s newly acquired S-400 air defense system (NATO Reporting name SA-21 Growler) is now operational at Mürted Akinci airfield, an Israeli geospatial company claims. Satellite imagery, which was shared by ImageSatIntel (iSi) on Twitter, shows the S-400 battery components in an operational...

t-intell.com

 

[_Mu_]

Europe: selected tactical combat aircraft, 2022
Source: THE MILITARY BALANCE 2023

 

[hawk21]

Is the block on EF supply being lifted? I reckon that Turkiye should establish the answer.

If EF supply to Turkiye can be unblocked, what about just buying the F-16 kits and Eurofighters? I don't recall which Eurofighter partner country is allocated marketing to Turkiye. If it is the UK, UK assembly work is drying up. I think that there are only about 10 aircraft left to assemble. Very different to the F-16 assembly line backlog.

umm..How should I put it? The Germans unblocking the Eurofighter is only a matter of Turkey willing to pay the price (not talking about money). It is a bargaining chip for "them", just like how the F-16V deal was a bargaining chip for the Americans.

If Turkey agrees to those conditions like the Saudis did, the next day the German government is going to suddenly have a change of heart.

So I look at the EF issue as a question of not whether Germany is willing to supply it, but a question of whether Turkey is willing to pay the price for it.

Also want to add that I dont think the TurAF is that desperate for the Eurofighter. Very different situation than the F-16. The consortium should have been the ones desperate to sell. But national interest is not something the Euros put first. I mean, they know the J-35 is entering export markets around 2025. The KAAN should arrive by 2035. At that point, everyone the Americans like is buying the F-35, everyone the Americans hate is buying the J-35, the rest will pick the KAAN and the eurocanards are basically dead at that point. So i think this 'we cant sell you the EF because Erdo is a dictator and we like our kurds' isn't very smart.

 

[boredaf]

Turkish s400 is active and protecting the Turkish capital against nuclear ballistic missiles, stealth air planes, cruise missiles with nukes that can come when we all are sleeping. It is located in Mürted airport and it is very much active all the time. There are pictures of the radar spinning next to barracks in the airport. It is not 100% but definitely better than nothing or having some fully American controlled F35s with fake Turkish flag plastered over it.

Istanbul, other cities are still all open to nuclear attacks. Range:

Turkey’s S-400 “Growler” Goes Operational Near Ankara - T-Intelligence

Turkey’s newly acquired S-400 air defense system (NATO Reporting name SA-21 Growler) is now operational at Mürted Akinci airfield, an Israeli geospatial company claims. Satellite imagery, which was shared by ImageSatIntel (iSi) on Twitter, shows the S-400 battery components in an operational...

t-intell.com

Lmfao, S400 couldn't even protect Russians from Ukrainian drones or munitions from hitting hundreds of kms inside Russia, but sure, it'll protect us from "nukes" and "stealth planes". Whatever helps you sleep I guess.

S-400 was the single biggest foreign policy blunder this government made over 20 years, and that is saying a lot since they made quite a lot of those. Buying the first one was stupid, even suggesting us to buy a second one should make people candidates for free health screening for head injury.

 

[Sai]

True. But the plan was for F-35s to replace F-4s and for TF-X to replace F-16s. Leaving a fleet of only F-35 + TFX.

Now you are planning to go for F-16Vs, Eurofighters, F-35s, TFX. Also the Ozgur, Hurjet, Kizilelma and Anka-3.

This is definitely going to cause a massive financial crisis in the TF-X and TF35K programs.

Only TFX and F-35? The operational costs of fifth-generation fighter jets are very high. You need 4th Gen for missions that don't require stealth.

 

[DBdev]

Lmfao, S400 couldn't even protect Russians from Ukrainian drones or munitions from hitting hundreds of kms inside Russia, but sure, it'll protect us from "nukes" and "stealth planes". Whatever helps you sleep I guess.

S-400 was the single biggest foreign policy blunder this government made over 20 years, and that is saying a lot since they made quite a lot of those. Buying the first one was stupid, even suggesting us to buy a second one should make people candidates for free health screening for head injury.

I said it is not 100%. No system is. Depends on the threat. On average modern air defenses are %80 effective against ballistic missiles and around %90 for air breathing targets except hypersonic cruise missiles which are almost unstoppable.

We can not trust s400 any more than we can trust F35.

These are all our historic enemies. Like I said westerners took away Patriots immediately and were begging Putin to nuke Turks just a few years ago when Russian TVs were discussing where to nuke in Türkiye first.

If a nuclear war breaks out in the next 24 hours both will end up nuking us. I guarantee it. Each nuke that we can't intercept means around 1 mega deaths (1 million deaths).

So getting rid of s400 is what's stupid. Even after Siper becomes capable against ICBMS we should keep it as an alternative. No freaking F35 could help us against an ICBM and American hardware is as susceptible to trojan horse circuits that can be disabled by hidden logic gates they can trigger with a remote signal. SURPRISE!!!

So even if they give us all the F35 and patriot codes you cant trust anything made by always creeping, spying on entire world, Americans.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/russia-isnt-going-run-out-missiles

 

[DBdev]

Only TFX and F-35? The operational costs of fifth-generation fighter jets are very high. You need 4th Gen for missions that don't require stealth.

We must have 100s of AKINCI and KIZILELMA unmanned systems for daily air patrols, interceptions, anti terror operations, heck even actual wars.

You all saw how quickly Ukraine and even Russia lost great chunks of their manned fighter squadrons and precious hard to replace pilots.
A few hundred planes will disappear in the first few weeks of a conventional modern war.

So it is crucial to have fast paced underground production capability to rebuild unmanned systems to replace what's lost.
Manned systems just can't be replaced fast enough due to pilot shortages.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1752980673197961431

Türkiye still wants EF-2000. Germany is expected to respond positively on the issue.

 

[RMZN]

I said it is not 100%. No system is. Depends on the threat. On average modern air defenses are %80 effective against ballistic missiles and around %90 for air breathing targets except hypersonic cruise missiles which are almost unstoppable.

We can not trust s400 any more than we can trust F35.

These are all our historic enemies. Like I said westerners took away Patriots immediately and were begging Putin to nuke Turks just a few years ago when Russian TVs were discussing where to nuke in Türkiye first.

If a nuclear war breaks out in the next 24 hours both will end up nuking us. I guarantee it. Each nuke that we can't intercept means around 1 mega deaths (1 million deaths).

So getting rid of s400 is what's stupid. Even after Siper becomes capable against ICBMS we should keep it as an alternative. No freaking F35 could help us against an ICBM and American hardware is as susceptible to trojan horse circuits that can be disabled by hidden logic gates they can trigger with a remote signal. SURPRISE!!!

So even if they give us all the F35 and patriot codes you cant trust anything made by always creeping, spying on entire world, Americans.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/russia-isnt-going-run-out-missiles

unlike the S400, the F35 can be integrated into existing NATO systems. If they are both our historical enemies, then why not find out more about the weapons they might use against us? The F35 is an indefinitely greater threat than Russias S400.

Russians cant even intercept Ukrainian missiles with their S400 missiles despite using them in an integrated AD network, how do you expect them to work against potential American nuclear bombs? They wont. And last time I checked we didnt even get a ToT from the Russians, talk about "trojan horse".

Getting a closer look at the planes that would be deploying said nuclear weapons will do us more good than having useless Russian junk sitting around.

 

[Sanchez]

Full unnamed quote:
"Our Eurofighter demand continues"

In response to a question on whether Turkey's demand for the Eurofighter continues, ministry sources said, "Our demand continues. The positive approach of Germany, one of the consortium countries, is expected. Discussions and studies are ongoing."

"F-16 tedariki ve modernizasyonu konusu herhangi bir şarta bağlı değil"

ABD’den talep edilen F-16'la ilgili onay süreci 26 Ocak'ta başladı. Milli Savunma Bakanlığı kaynakları, Yunanistan kaynaklı haber sitelerindeki iddiaları yalanladı, "F-16 tedariki ve modernizasyonu konusu herhangi bir şarta bağlı değildir" açıklamasını yaptı.

www.trthaber.com

 

[Ahlatshah]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1752980673197961431

Türkiye still wants EF-2000. Germany is expected to respond positively on the issue.

This news is most welcome. I prefer EF2000 ten times over F35, not for its capabilities, F35 is more capable; but because of diversification. We cannot %90 or so depend on Americans with F35 for next 50 years again

And it is not only for political reasons, which all of us know; but also technical. With one common problem, your entire fleet can be grounded. Germany, Spain, Greece, even most neutral Switzerland diversify their fleets for that reason.

 

[DBdev]

unlike the S400, the F35 can be integrated into existing NATO systems. If they are both our historical enemies, then why not find out more about the weapons they might use against us? The F35 is an indefinitely greater threat than Russias S400.

Russians cant even intercept Ukrainian missiles with their S400 missiles despite using them in an integrated AD network, how do you expect them to work against potential American nuclear bombs? They wont. And last time I checked we didnt even get a ToT from the Russians, talk about "trojan horse".

Getting a closer look at the planes that would be deploying said nuclear weapons will do us more good than having useless Russian junk sitting around.

Am I speaking Chinese or something? Didn't you see the giant chart?

Neither s400 nor Patriot can stop 100% of threats.

Some will ALWAYS get through. If s400 stops 1 warhead and saves 1 million lives it will be worth 1000 F-35s that we can't reverse engineer due to complexity of both hardware and software.

You can crack a program with a few thousand lines of code easily as 1,2,3. But when it is tens of millions of lines of code like it is in F-35 it becomes near impossible!
Heck even America wasted years trying to debug their own open source codes due to it's sheer complexity.

What we could get from F35 was mainly stealth panels which wouldn't also help us if we do not have know how to reproduce them. Hopefully we can produce equal or even better RAM for KAAN by now.

F35 like all stealth planes, is vulnerable to IRST, both airborne and ground based passive/semi-active AESA sensor fusion capable systems located around our borders will give us 100+ km protection range. 100+km is the current day limit of modern airborne IRST but that number can easily be improved.

 

[Strong AI]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1752980673197961431

Türkiye still wants EF-2000. Germany is expected to respond positively on the issue.

Full unnamed quote:
"Our Eurofighter demand continues"

In response to a question on whether Turkey's demand for the Eurofighter continues, ministry sources said, "Our demand continues. The positive approach of Germany, one of the consortium countries, is expected. Discussions and studies are ongoing."

"F-16 tedariki ve modernizasyonu konusu herhangi bir şarta bağlı değil"

ABD’den talep edilen F-16'la ilgili onay süreci 26 Ocak'ta başladı. Milli Savunma Bakanlığı kaynakları, Yunanistan kaynaklı haber sitelerindeki iddiaları yalanladı, "F-16 tedariki ve modernizasyonu konusu herhangi bir şarta bağlı değildir" açıklamasını yaptı.

www.trthaber.com

Actually, when the first time i read it, i thought that he means: "The other consortium countries expect a positive approach from Germany."
Which is much better, because this means, that those other countries started putting pressure on Germany.