TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Maximilien Robespierre]

KAAN will fly in less than a month. Who cares about Germans? We will sell KAAN to all their customers when their Eurofighter factories completely shut down in 2030.

a plane that not went into serial production that doesn't even have a engine yet will be better than eurofighter keep dreaming buddy Even the radar is not ready.

 

[DBdev]

a plane that not went into serial production that doesn't even have a engine yet will be better than eurofighter keep dreaming buddy Even the radar is not ready.

TUSAS CEO Kotil already said they will deliver 20 KAAN to Turkish Air Force in 2028. And will make 2 more each month. Also they can keep doubling that easily as much as required. Also according to CEO Turkish TRMotor turbofan engines will be ready in 2028.

I trust HIM buddy, he stood behind his words so far.

Aselsan Murad is never "ready" and never will be. New radar development on such a critical platform is always ongoing. You need to gather as much radar signature data as possible (Qatar brings their jets to us for that purpose) from various angles, distances and conditions to identify enemy from as far a distance possible without revealing your own location. And to improve your AESA wave forming techniques, EW, cooling etc. Murad, BURFIS will never be "ready" but both will do their jobs. Just like ground based AESA radars from Aselsan they will improve constantly.

 

[Spitfire9]

Approval for F-16 and Eurofighter is not forthcoming. It looks to me that the earliest KAAN (with F110) will be delivered to TuAF is early in the next decade. If that is a problem, Turkiye has a problem. The question to me is whether any steps can be taken to mitigate that problem - can a type be ordered that could enter service several years before KAAN? Getting a type into service shortly before KAAN enters service does not seem like a good idea but

(a) would cover the risk of substantial delay in F110 KAAN entering service
(b) would give Turkiye the option of abandoning the idea of a production version using F110 in favour of waiting for a KAAN version with a Turkish engine

That second option makes me think of India. India may approve procuring 100 more Tejas Mk1A tomorrow - not because the IAF wants them particularly (it wants medium weight fighters) but because it is the quickest way of getting more fighters into service.

 

[Ryder]

Approval for F-16 and Eurofighter is not forthcoming. It looks to me that the earliest KAAN (with F110) will be delivered to TuAF is early in the next decade. If that is a problem, Turkiye has a problem. The question to me is whether any steps can be taken to mitigate that problem - can a type be ordered that could enter service several years before KAAN? Getting a type into service shortly before KAAN enters service does not seem like a good idea but

(a) would cover the risk of substantial delay in F110 KAAN entering service
(b) would give Turkiye the option of abandoning the idea of a production version using F110 in favour of waiting for a KAAN version with a Turkish engine

That second option makes me think of India. India may approve procuring 100 more Tejas Mk1A tomorrow - not because the IAF wants them particularly (it wants medium weight fighters) but because it is the quickest way of getting more fighters into service.

F16V and EF are stop gap measures.

F35A and the F35B was still in the plans of the Turkish Airforce and the Turkish Navy until they got confiscated and kicked out.

Since F16V and EF are going through hurdles the plan is now the Kaan.

Stop gap measures will be fine until the Kaan is ready.

 

[Spitfire9]

TUSAS CEO Kotil already said they will deliver 20 KAAN to Turkish Air Force in 2028. And will make 2 more each month. Also they can keep doubling that easily as much as required. Also according to CEO Turkish TRMotor turbofan engines will be ready in 2028.

I trust HIM buddy, he stood behind his words so far.

KAAN prototype construction was not started with a frozen design so it should evolve during testing. I do not understand how TAI will be able to make design changes, test those changes, reach design freeze, set up production and start rolling KAAN off the line in less than 5 years.

KAI started testing KF-21 mid-2022 and intends to start production some time in 2024 but it had frozen the design before prototype construction and built 6 prototypes in a year. KAAN is in a different situation.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Even if we dont have new fighter aircraft until 2033 we can overcome the problem :

1- Producing advanced kizilelma, anka 3 and other steath drones with Aesa radar + AA missile
2- Producing huge number in mass of advanced MRBM Cenk type missiles with 1500km+ range
3- Producing in mass advanced longrange Siper block 2/3/4 300-400-500 km range.
4- Upgrading all F16 with modern Turk systems.

 

[Spitfire9]

Türkiye has been making most parts of F110 for decades believe it or not as half partner of General Electric.

And now we can make the "top secret" hot parts too, all in Türkiye without any foreign help. Thanks to 800+ critical material, cutting edge production projects started decades earlier.

Korea, India are far behind of Türkiye in engine area. Even their engine project targets aren't close to top of the line GE-F110 that we have mastered.

If west doesn't give even licensed production permission to build F110s. We could easily make a slightly modified version tomorrow.
It is out of courtesy that we are asking, not desperation like some skeptics in west imagine.

Korea, India, Europe never had the urgency we have. They don't work 3 shift days including all engineers like we do for years. They have to justify their spending, etc. we don't. KAAN, it's engines are national priority. Eurofighter, F-16V they can act like jerks, if they want to. We can do without them thanks to Siper that is being delivered to TAF.

That is why Turkish KAAN and TRMotor 5th gen stealth turbofan will finish much faster than others including CHINA. Since they started from scratch. When were already making F110s, F-16s and even 5th gen F-35 parts in Türkiye.

PS: The engineer who made billion dollar a pop B2 stealth plane, well... stealth is a Turkish patriot. His entire village was murdered by Greeks. He was the sole survivor as a baby.

Don't compare us with other nations.

So you would prefer me not to say that I think Turkiye would get KAAN into production faster than other countries would if they had reached the same state of progress in the project.

Not referring to you, I'm not a Turkish patriot wearing rose-tinted glasses about everything Turkish so when I comment I set out to make comments that I find realistic.

 

[Maximilien Robespierre]

Even if we dont have new fighter aircraft until 2033 we can overcome the problem :

1- Producing advanced kizilelma, anka 3 and other steath drones with Aesa radar + AA missile
2- Producing huge number in mass of advanced MRBM Cenk type missiles with 1500km+ range
3- Producing in mass advanced longrange Siper block 2/3/4 300-400-500 km range.
4- Upgrading all F16 with modern Turk systems.

It doesn't work like that.

 

[Huelague]

Yeah bro keep dreaming we don't even mass produced TF600 but surely we could make a fifth gen engine maybe stop watching TRT or A-haber.

*Korea, India are far behind of Türkiye in engine area. Even their engine project targets aren't close to top of the line GE-F110 that we have mastered.*

This part made me laugh India was building several engines while we were struggling with TS1400 and that is a turboshaft engine not even a jet engine.

We turks have this delusion that KAAN will beat F35 or other proven jets KAAN will enter service in probably 2035 with foreign engines.

Also making an F110 engine doesn't qualift that tr motor could made fifth gen engine in 5 years even superpowers had problems and they weren't embargoed like us.

F110 IS A FOURTH GEN ENGINE MAN AMOUNT OF MISINFORMATION AND DELUSION THIS GUY IS WRITING KILLING ME @Nilgiri could you give him a lesson about Indian engine programs he seems ignorant

"It cant be, what not should not be." Right?

 

[Maximilien Robespierre]

"It cant be, what not should not be." Right?

Don't come here and be sad when the first prototype crashes because we are rushing this project. Not even the radar for KAAN is ready and we don't know the state of passive or active sensors. plus making a so called fifth gen engine in 5 years is just playing for the crows.

 

[cr33pt3d]

damn so much pressure on those engineers . from politicians to burocrats everybody is putting more and more pressure on those poor guys, don't wanna be the messenger of doom, but someone should ask what will their mental status be if that bird crashes ? let alone the 2-3 years it will take to get back on track.

anyone who worked on big projects will understand how hard it is to get all those people motivation back, if such a disaster happens. we lost 20% of our devs in a startup due to bad project management

I hope TAI has invested in psy support team, as should any company working on projects with high scrutiny.

 

[Zafer]

damn so much pressure on those engineers . from politicians to burocrats everybody is putting more and more pressure on those poor guys, don't wanna be the messenger of doom, but someone should ask what will their mental status be if that bird crashes ? let alone the 2-3 years it will take to get back on track.

anyone who worked on big projects will understand how hard it is to get all those peoples motivation back, if such a disaster happens. we lost 20% of our devs in a startup due to bad project management

I hope TAI has invested in psy support team, as should any company working on projects with high scrutiny.

Imagine what happens at wartime. Military industrial complex can use some overload test to prepare for wartime. At wartime engineers will be lucky for just losing sleep. It is OK to fail if you are speeding. More prototypes are in production already, so there won't be major setbacks. Somebody said "If you are not failing you are not trying hard enough".

 

[Huelague]

Don't come here and be sad when the first prototype crashes because we are rushing this project. Not even the radar for KAAN is ready and we don't know the state of passive or active sensors. plus making a so called fifth gen engine in 5 years is just playing for the crows.

Dont worry, I won't do.

 

[Glass🚬]

Is it anything official on Germany actually blocking a last-tranche Typhoon deal for Turkey?

I dont think they will block it, this seems to be quite important for airbus as well and combined with ig metall there would be enough pressure, otherwise the whole market share will be given to the americans also within germany in a few years lel.

 

[Altay_TR]

A nice what-if work, K/C-390 at 221st Squadron

Source

 

[Saithan]

Well, I am still not hearing anything about Hurjet. Where are the deal for 100 engines ?

Kaan is the same, being used for political purpose.

So I’m biding my time, just waiting quietly.

people who can’t stomach @Spitfire9 words should wake up.

His assesment / conjuncture is correct.

people living on prayers should listen to Bon Jovi.

 

[Spitfire9]

By chance I spotted this. The defenseaerospace.com website is now based in France and tends to report negatively on British aviation matters but I think it gives an idea of why Scholz is unlikely change his position on EF supplies to Turkiye.

... maintaining the government coalition is the first priority for Chancellor Scholz, and selling weapons to Saudi Arabia is a red line, and even the British government knows it. No threat -- whether legal, industrial, or commercial -- could reverse the hierarchy of the Chancellor’s priorities. The governing “Jamaican” or “traffic light coalition” is in bad shape, as is clearly illustrated by the polls and the regional elections, and the next elections in 2025 are very close.

If there is one bet that London could win, it’s to wait and see what happens after 2025: the would-be candidacy of the defence minister, Boris Pistorius, could be the wildcard that could possibly lift the embargo.

Defense-aerospace.com

www.defense-aerospace.com

People in countries affected by the block can rage away as much as they like but I don't think it will change anything. I think the people who can change things (possibly) are the Germans in the next election.

 

[Baryshx]

By chance I spotted this. The defenseaerospace.com website is now based in France and tends to report negatively on British aviation matters but I think it gives an idea of why Scholz is unlikely change his position on EF supplies to Turkiye.

Defense-aerospace.com

www.defense-aerospace.com

People in countries affected by the block can rage away as much as they like but I don't think it will change anything. I think the people who can change things (possibly) are the Germans in the next election.

It is best to end military relations with the Germans. Until there is a German government that will establish proper relations with Türkiye.

 

[Zafer]

By chance I spotted this. The defenseaerospace.com website is now based in France and tends to report negatively on British aviation matters but I think it gives an idea of why Scholz is unlikely change his position on EF supplies to Turkiye.

Defense-aerospace.com

www.defense-aerospace.com

People in countries affected by the block can rage away as much as they like but I don't think it will change anything. I think the people who can change things (possibly) are the Germans in the next election.

If it were KSA alone it would be easy to block but add Türkiye to that it will be hard for the german government to resist.

 

[boredaf]

People in countries affected by the block

You mean German and British workers? Those factories have about 5 to 7 years of life if they refuse to take new orders. Good fucking luck to Germany in their search to find better costumers