TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Sanchez]

"The Liaison and Utility Aircraft Procurement Project, which was initiated by the Presidency of Defense Industries (SSB) in 2016 for the needs of the Turkish Land Forces Command (KKK) and the Turkish National Police (EGM) and aims to ensure the dispatch of operational units with their equipment and materials in a short time between long distances without being affected by meteorological conditions, also included the Gendarmerie General Command (JGnK) after the evaluation made in 2019. The project is expected to face competition between Airbus C295 and C-27J Spartan NG Aircraft. Meanwhile, in the coming years, the Turkish Air Force is expected to modernize some of its veteran CN235 Light Transport Aircraft, while retiring some of them and replacing them with new production Transport Aircraft."

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[Sanchez]

Something very interesting from NSPA, NATO's procurement agency.

An RFP for 4 different articles of parts, dubbed "Miscellaneous Spare Parts used on EUROFIGHTER" and the end user is "Turkish Nation Customer".

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1883830770500067600

Request Rejected

 

[Turkic]

HAVA-SOJ ?

View attachment 73303 View attachment 73304

Will HAVA-SOJ have any prototypes ? Because it says experimental. They usually use it on prototypes

 

[TheInsider]

It is a prototype but it will also be delivered as a finished product.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Will HAVA-SOJ have any prototypes ? Because it says experimental. They usually use it on prototypes

"Experimental" is written on aircraft when they haven't got their licences yet. Airworthiness, safety and other. When that's completed they won't need the stamp any more.

 

[Turkic]

It is a prototype but it will also be delivered as a finished product.

"Experimental" is written on aircraft when they haven't got their licences yet. Airworthiness, safety and other. When that's completed they won't need the stamp any more.

Thanks for answers

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1884896933711360021

Request for offer for 40 EF sent to UK

 

[IC3M@N FX]

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/29/us/f-35-fighter-jet-crash-hnk/index.html

Another crash to the F-35 and to be honest I don't think much of the F-35 either, the plane is simply over engineered and permanently flawed.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Glorified 4. gen jet is not going to beat F35 block 4, But It will outperform other 4. gen jets, Im pretty sure It will outperform any russian jet in existence but not F35

Has any Turkish official ever claimed otherwise? They have all said that it will still be inferior to F-22/F-35 in some areas. They have even confirmed that this aircraft as a first block will not deliver the performance they are aiming for but will at least be superior to the GEN 4.5 aircraft.
So what do they want? That Turkey should fly with paper airplanes?
The TAI KAAN project is not a superiority fighter that should outperform all others, but a price-performance stealth fighter that can be exported everywhere!

Edit: The admin was quicker, the troll was banned

 

[AlperTunga]

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/29/us/f-35-fighter-jet-crash-hnk/index.html

Another crash to the F-35 and to be honest I don't think much of the F-35 either, the plane is simply over engineered and permanently flawed.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/29/us/f-35-fighter-jet-crash-hnk/index.html

Another crash to the F-35 and to be honest I don't think much of the F-35 either, the plane is simply over engineered and permanently flawed.

We are missing a crucial point here in these discussions. We have only old F16s no Rafael, no EF, and no F35 or F15. f35 may have some problems but still certainly not worse than old f16s. We could have learned a lot from f35s to improve our Kaan. It was one of the largest strategic mistakes in this century for us not to have a good backup plan for our air force. Same people also damaged the Altay project.

 

[Saithan]

I saw a tweet that pointed out that aprox 1100 F35 was made (not sure that is true), and that they've accumulated a lot of flight hours, so the few that crashed are very little percentage.

And I think what's important is that you can eject safely and land safely when such technical errors occur. We will see such accidents with our own products as well. The only question is, will we be open about these accidents or hide them.

e.g. Hürjet had a dangerous dive stunt close to people last year. can't hide that kind of stuff because of many people with smart phones and recordings.

 

[Sanchez]

I saw a tweet that pointed out that aprox 1100 F35 was made (not sure that is true), and that they've accumulated a lot of flight hours, so the few that crashed are very little percentage.

Bashing on F-35 is pretty expected nowadays, especially in Turkey, but by what's available, F-35 is the fighter aircraft with the best safety record in the planet in history. 1100 airframes, nearly a million flight hours and only 15 class A mishaps(requiring substantial repairs, involving loss of life or serious injuries) so far. It's nearly impeccable actually.

F-35's case stems from it being very expensive to develop in total and it being the first aircraft to be developed during the height of social media.

Hürjet had a dangerous dive stunt close to people last year

I think you're referring to Solotürk F-16?

 

[uçuyorum]

Bashing on F-35 is pretty expected nowadays, especially in Turkey, but by what's available, F-35 is the fighter aircraft with the best safety record in the planet in history. 1100 airframes, nearly a million flight hours and only 15 class A mishaps(requiring substantial repairs, involving loss of life or serious injuries) so far. It's nearly impeccable actually.

F-35's case stems from it being very expensive to develop in total and it being the first aircraft to be developed during the height of social media.

I think you're referring to Solotürk F-16?

F35 does have really bad management though. They produced 1000 without getting it to a baseline quality and performance and now they all need very expensive upgrades and non US customers decided to not go for the upgrade, creating a mess of variances. Plus the integration of european munitions like Meteor to F35 was supposed to be with new software upgrade but new software upgrade requires the electronics upgrade which requires the engine upgrade and they only realized that after testing on F35 because they retired the testbed early...

 

[Sanchez]

Let's remain on the general topic regardless, as TurAF is no longer an F-35 user.

 

[Oublious]

According to Greeks we are planning to but 300 Meteor missiles, i could not find something like that.

Are the neighbours spreading lies?

 

[Yasar_TR]

According to Greeks we are planning to but 300 Meteor missiles, i could not find something like that.

Are the neighbours spreading lies?

You should be able to make the math yourself; Typhoon’s maximum meteor number is 8.
4 under fuselage and 2 under each wing. But in air superiority set up, it has 6 meteors and 2 WVR missiles.

40 planes will need 240 meteors if you set them up as air superiority fighters. There should be a good number of spares and test and practice missiles too.
In normal runs it should carry 4 meteors. That alone makes 160 missiles. A complete set of spares will bring the tally above 300.

 

[Hannibal]

Has any Turkish official ever claimed otherwise? They have all said that it will still be inferior to F-22/F-35 in some areas. They have even confirmed that this aircraft as a first block will not deliver the performance they are aiming for but will at least be superior to the GEN 4.5 aircraft.
So what do they want? That Turkey should fly with paper airplanes?
The TAI KAAN project is not a superiority fighter that should outperform all others, but a price-performance stealth fighter that can be exported everywhere!

Edit: The admin was quicker, the troll was banned

No, actually it was said that Kaan would be better than the F-35.
The only special thing about the F-35 is the stealth coating, and maybe the sensor fusion. In all other aspects, Kaan will be superior:

• It will carry more A2A missiles
• Supercruise capability
• More maneuverability
• More electricity generation
• More powerful radars

The RAM paint and sensor fusion are the most critical parts that TAI needs to get right (for operational capability).

Contrary to what others think, they can probably force an engine, that isn't as reliable as Western engines but gets the job done in terms of TVC and reduced IR signature. Similar to what the Chinese did with the WS-15.

 

[Turkic]

You should be able to make the math yourself; Typhoon’s maximum meteor number is 8.
4 under fuselage and 2 under each wing. But in air superiority set up, it has 6 meteors and 2 WVR missiles.

40 planes will need 240 meteors if you set them up as air superiority fighters. There should be a good number of spares and test and practice missiles too.
In normal runs it should carry 4 meteors. That alone makes 160 missiles. A complete set of spares will bring the tally above 300.

I think we need more. Kamikaze drones share a great piece from the cake of modern war doctrine. We can add cruise missiles to this. When Iran attacked Israel, we saw Isreali, British and US air forces shooting those with A2A missiles. And since these missiles and drones are being launched in large numbers at wars, we would need a lot of A2A missiles. I'm aware that Gökdoğan would be a better choice in matter of price but it wouldn't be bad if we got some extra Meteor's too.

 

[Sanchez]

and maybe the sensor fusion

Literally the hardest thing to achieve for a next gen fighter aircraft. It deserves a bit more than "maybe".

 

[Yasar_TR]

I think we need more. Kamikaze drones share a great piece from the cake of modern war doctrine. We can add cruise missiles to this. When Iran attacked Israel, we saw Isreali, British and US air forces shooting those with A2A missiles. And since these missiles and drones are being launched in large numbers at wars, we would need a lot of A2A missiles. I'm aware that Gökdoğa would be a better choice in matter of price but it wouldn't be bad if we got some extra Meteor's too.

To even contemplate shooting a 20 to 50 thousand dollar kamikaze drone with a state of the art 3 million dollar meteor is madness.
A missile like meteor is specifically built to bring down fast fighter jets 30 to 50 times pricier than itself.
For such drones, Koral and Sungur is the best medicine.
Talking about Meteor; It is high time we should be fire testing our Gökhan by now. It would be wasteful if we spend all that money on Meteors, when we are close to having our own ramjet powered a2a missile.