TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[dBSPL]

My understanding from a series of statements in the press in recent months is that the Ministry of Defence was pushing hard for the Viper modernization to take place within TAI. Presumably, it could not be ensured that the modernization would proceed domestically. After yesterday's news, I have questions: While the decision to proceed with Özgür-II is being made, what exactly will we leave out of the package approved by the senate? The Minister gave a very vague answer with an answer like 40 new jets and a few weapons.

The package included huge air to air missile aproval as 952 AMRAAM AIM-120C-8(D) and 401 AIM-9X Block II. Will we use all of this approved amount? The package also includes another remarkable purchase, 96 AGM-88B HARM and again 96 (+10 training) AGM-88E AARGM. In my opinion, the exact number of anti-radiation missiles specified in the list will be used.

Apart from the weapon systems, after the numbers to be purchased for the new aircraft are deducted, the remaining amount is: 109 +10 spare SABR, 118 sets +10 spare IVEWS and 16 SNIPER ATP. In my humble opinion, I think we should consider purchasing additional AN/APG-83, not for other avionics but perhaps to speed up the process until MURAD AESA is fully ready. We will be using this radar with 40 aircraft anyway. I am also in favor of purchasing a few more additional Sniper pods and Integrated Electronic Warfare Suite.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Ah yes, the S-400 was so much needed that it is left taking dust in a storage.

Bakan Güler'den S-400 Açıklaması: "Mahzenler dahi yapıldı" | SavunmaSanayiST

Milli Savunma Bakanı Yaşar Güler, Türkiye'nin envanterindeki S-400 Hava Savunma Sistemi ve konuşlandırılacağı noktayla ilgili açıklamalarda bulundu.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Yaşar Güler, Minister of National Defense, made statements about the S-400 Air Defense System in Turkey's inventory and where it will be deployed.

In the statement made by Minister Güler, "Every place where we will install and use the S-400 is certain. All the places where they will settle there, including the cellars underneath, are all done and ready. Only when we give an order, everyone will move to whichever region we give the order to. In other words, the danger of an attack on us will rise to something at a very high level, so we will use the S-400."

Turkey's S-400 HSFS Procurement Process
In September 2017, Turkey signed an agreement worth USD 2.5 billion with the Russian Federation for the supply of two squadrons (4 batteries) of S-400 Air Defense Missile Systems (S-400 Air Defense Missile Systems) as part of "urgent needs". As part of the agreement, the first S-400 fleet worth USD 1.3 billion was delivered to the Turkish Air Force in July 2019.

It is known that there is currently 1 squadron, i.e. 2 batteries of S-400 Air Defense Systems in the Turkish Air Force inventory. These 2 batteries of S-400 can be deployed to 2 different locations.

The S-400 is also, apart from the technical possibilities of intercepting ballistic missiles, a safeguard that the supposed allies will hold their feet still until we have reached a similar level with Siper 1 & 2, it is nothing more than an insurance policy. Apart from that, no one knows for sure whether a technology transfer has taken place, whether active or passive, and this is not being made public in order to significantly improve our own air defense systems.
The development of functional air defense systems is just as complex in development as a high-performance engine, something like that takes an average of 8-9 years, and even then you are not even close to top notch systems in contrast to our systems, e.g. the PATRIOT and S400 have been tested in combat for years and collect METADATA to improve their own software and hardware and their target acquisition.
Not every country can develop highly complex air defense systems on the side.
Israel and the USA are only able to improve their systems because Israel, for example, is fired on almost weekly.

 

[Khagan1923]

According to American rumours we asked not only for F-35A but the B model as well, supposedly in a 40-20 Split. Like I said if the Air Force goes for the F-35A Navy will want in on the cake.

Still would rather keep the kits instead of the 40 F-16. Özgür-II is the modernization that is on par with Block 70 and we don't know when that will be ready. Block 70 conversion could start next year if we sign the deal at the end of this year.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I am not a fan of upgrade kits from US as Block 70, Özgur II has similar performance values, even if the MURAD radar system is worse than AN/APG 83, there would still be a possibility to improve the own radar system including its target acquisition from the knowledge of the new F-16 Block 70 airplanes.
Also, with Qatar we have a backdoor ally where we have the opportunity to analyze and learn their Eurofighter, and Rafaele AESA Radar Systems, EW, and Software & Hardware if it has not already been done in the meantime.

 

[begturan]

Looking at the developments up until today, I understand that Turkey will focus on national warplane and modernization projects no matter what, but the F35 and other planes are being used as a purely political tool against America.

Buying American-made planes may mean guaranteeing the engines we will buy for the Hürjet and Kaan projects. In addition, our dependence on America for ammunition and spare parts also reveals our will to continue our good relations with them in the future.

The purchase of S400s was also a precaution against America's Middle East plans, now that the Siper and Steel Dome projects have been implemented, the S400s no longer have any importance, if necessary, we can sell the S400s to any friendly and allied country.

 

[hugh]

I think we're reading too much into the words of a single visitor. they would always dangle the carrot in front of us but would they let us have it? I don't think so. At least not in the near term

 

[Sanchez]

Özgur II has similar performance values

Özgür 2 doesn't exist yet. Its development deal was signed last year.

The purchase of S400s was also a precaution against America's Middle East plans

It wasn't.

the S400s no longer have any importance

S-400 never had any single real world capability for our air force. They've been staying in hangars in Ankara since their calibration tests were completed in Sinop in 2020.

we can sell the S400s to any friendly and allied country

"Lavrov: Turkey must get Russia's permission to sell S-400s to a third country."

Lavrov: Türkiye S-400’leri üçüncü bir ülkeye satmak için Rusya'nın iznini almak zorunda

Rusya Dışişleri Bakanı Sergey Lavrov, Türkiye ile imzalanan anlaşmada yer alan "son kullanıcı sertifikasyonu" gereği, silahları teslim alan ülkenin, başka bir satış yapmadan önce Rusya’dan onay almak zorunda olduğunu vurguladı. fazla oku Bu bölüm, konuyla ilgili referans noktalarını içerir...

www.indyturk.com

 

[Khagan1923]

I think we're reading too much into the words of a single visitor. they would always dangle the carrot in front of us but would they let us have it? I don't think so. At least not in the near term

I think it is a bit more serious when your Minister of Defense comes out and says straight face we are in talks to buy the F-35A and the Americans want to sell it so we canceled the kits.

There were already rumours going about that both sides were holding talks for a return and both sides wanted it to happen. Remember the news from greek media?
They usually get those things right because someone leaks it to them. They were also one of the first to report about the F-16 Block 70 purchase.

Anything can happen but Güler talking like this openly signals to me that the talks are very advanced on this topic.

 

[hugh]

I think it is a bit more serious when your Minister of Defense comes out and says straight face we are in talks to buy the F-35A and the Americans want to sell it so we canceled the kits.

There were already rumours going about that both sides were holding talks for a return and both sides wanted it to happen. Remember the news from greek media?
They usually get those things right because someone leaks it to them. They were also one of the first to report about the F-16 Block 70 purchase.

Anything can happen but Güler talking like this openly signals to me that the talks are very advanced on this topic.

the thing is, I don't have any pieces left in me to give the benefit of the doubt to the US-Turkiye bilateral relations. They would, like Germans, always seek the chance to fuck us over and they have the window of opportunity due to our mismanaged economy. They will be teasing us to force us to walk their path but it will be an ever eluding target.

Besides, the talk of "they saw KAAN, understood our progress and gave in to sell F35s" sounds fishy to me when KAAN's success is contingent on the delivery of the US engines. Bear in mind that we won't see an operational TF35K for a decade or so.

 

[Saithan]

Jerkin us around while Syria is being cooked, is what it is.

 

[boredaf]

While the decision to proceed with Özgür-II is being made, what exactly will we leave out of the package approved by the senate?

This is everything we wanted

https://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/files/mas/Press%20Release%20-%20Turkey%2023-07%20CN.pdf

You have to subtract anything that has to do with modernisation to find the remaining stuff. For example, we wanted 149 AESA radars but 99 of those were for modernisation (installed + spares) now we'll just get 50 instead (40 installed + spares) and so on.

 

[Saithan]

Tbh I just thought about that it might have been a good idea to get some upgrade kits, I am not sure if it comes like a package and we can upgrade the F16 if we want, or does it come in installments so we never get the whole thing without having started an upgrade..

I was thinking (in theory) Iraqi F16 could be upgraded, PAF F16 could be upgraded and such stuff, in different scenarios. I don't imagine those two countries will be receiving anything from US anymore...

 

[Iskander]

the thing is, I don't have any pieces left in me to give the benefit of the doubt to the US-Turkiye bilateral relations. They would, like Germans, always seek the chance to fuck us over and they have the window of opportunity due to our mismanaged economy. They will be teasing us to force us to walk their path but it will be an ever eluding target.

Besides, the talk of "they saw KAAN, understood our progress and gave in to sell F35s" sounds fishy to me when KAAN's success is contingent on the delivery of the US engines. Bear in mind that we won't see an operational TF35K for a decade or so.

Since Washington refused to supply Turkey with F35, much has changed in the world, especially in Europe. A war has begun in Europe that threatens to escalate into a world war. (After all, both world wars began in Europe)
It seems that Washington has finally thought about the question:
"In a truly complex geopolitical situation, whose interests are more important to the Americans? The Armenian, Greek, Israeli lobby, or the national interests of America itself?" I look at these dances around F35 from this point of view.

 

[mehmed beg]

The only good thing with F 35 in regards of Turkey, is the chance to calibrate air defences, EW. Oh yes, they can see where KAAN is going. That's all, though that's important in itself.

 

[Ryder]

It cant be denied that the F35 is very much needed same for the Typhoon until Turkish domestic products are ready for action.

The S400 can either be used for testing if not sold to Azerbaijan.

I dont think the s400 is useless but now way would Turkish armed forces would intergrate any kind of Russian or Chinese systems. Turkiye is really gunning for a domestic one.

 

[uçuyorum]

It cant be denied that the F35 is very much needed same for the Typhoon until Turkish domestic products are ready for action.

The S400 can either be used for testing if not sold to Azerbaijan.

I dont think the s400 is useless but now way would Turkish armed forces would intergrate any kind of Russian or Chinese systems. Turkiye is really gunning for a domestic one.

Azerbaijan has better systems don't they? Barak 8 etc

 

[begturan]

It wasn't.

What is your opinion about buying S400 ? I remember that time Esad was threaten Turkiye with balistic missiles also there was some news about PYD and DEASH captured some balistic missiles with chemical, but NATO and western countries was refused to give air defence systems that times. After these events, Türkiye turned to purchasing S400.

 

[hugh]

What is your opinion about buying S400 ? I remember that time Esad was threaten Turkiye with balistic missiles also there was some news about PYD and DEASH captured some balistic missiles with chemical, but NATO and western countries was refused to give air defence systems that times. After these events, Türkiye turned to purchasing S400.

S400 is not an ABM

 

[dBSPL]

Good news, 12 bargain C-130Js coming in.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1862849718147063838

 

[Fairon]

Good news, 12 bargain C-130Js coming in.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1862849718147063838

Is this certain this time?

Wonder if we put them through Erciyes modenization just to have more commonality.