TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[what]

Would we drop the Eurofighter deal if the F35 window opens or would we buy them on top of the EF?

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I don't want to talk politics, but we have to.

When Erdogan came, we had a brand new air force. The F-35 project was prepared. If Erdogan hadn't messed things up, the Armenian and Greek lobbies would still be unable to do anything. Let's stop talking about foreign powers, there were foreign powers before Erdogan and there will be foreign powers after him.

There is only one country that helps Turkey and that is Turkey itself. We should stop wanting things or running after things that they don't want to give us.
Stop crying as if he is to blame for everything, be happy that he is pushing the arms industry like no president before him and really investing massively.
If you disagree....Then list what the Presidents/Prime Ministers before Erdogan have achieved in Turkey? We didn't even have our own intelligent munitions, and that is the minimum requirement for a state that has to or wants to defend itself!
It's not Erdogan's fault if Turkey didn't get modern air defense systems like PATRIOTS, we were forced to buy S-400s, we only had Air Defense Systems from the Cold War 70/80s at a very critical time.

The Syrian War back then showed that of the supposed NATO allies, only Spain and its PATRIOTS in Turkey were there continuously, so you don't even need to think about countries like Germany, France, Italy and the USA helping Turkey in an emergency. The Mutual Assistance Treaty is nothing more than a piece of paper to wipe your ass with.

 

[Shtr]

Exact source: https://www.tbmm.gov.tr/Tutanaklar/TutanakGoster/4044

It is long but you can search "40 tane de F-35'i almak için isteğimizi bildirdik." as in the text.

 

[cr33pt3d]

i hope that the 40 f35 'sare not all f35A's.
would be nice to add between 8-10 F35B' to Anadolu. waiting for Mugem to enter service those would serve as learning path for our naval aviators.
let's hope we can secure those engines at the same time. f110 and F404 is more vital than those viper kits. the question remains how the hell we gonna pay all those goodies.what about the Typhoon deal ?

 

[TheInsider]

What will the planes protect then?

This purchase will align with NATO's posture against Russia and Iran.

 

[dBSPL]

Exact source: https://www.tbmm.gov.tr/Tutanaklar/TutanakGoster/4044

It is long but you can search "40 tane de F-35'i almak için isteğimizi bildirdik." as in the text.

It is also understood from the same minutes that there is no positive view on returning to the F-35 purchase without take back the JSF production share. (p.82) In my personal opinion, the main issue to be insisted on is keeping the major maintenance services within the country as in the initial agreement.

 

[uçuyorum]

This purchase will align with NATO's posture against Russia and Iran.

Ok but what will we use the planes to protect if we abandon everything that matters to us

 

[Lool]

Beuatiful news came from the minister of National Defence; Turkey is abandoning the 21 billion dollar deal for F16 modernisation to Viper status and instead going with complete Ozgur modernisation for their F16s fleet. So, what does this mean:

1- as rumored from before, the Ozgur upgrade kit is quite as good as the viper at the very least; if not even better, considering that the Turkish Air Force is quite confident in giving the whole deal to TAI
2- Turkey boosting its own defence industry by giving them more jobs and role to play
3- Turkey saving around 13 billion dollars while obtaining a fleet just as good as the Vipers
4- Being national, means that Turkey doesnt have to release any sensitive info about the new upgraded planes while with the Viper kit, the Americans would know all the ins and outs of the Viper
5- Turkey wont be threatened to stop the upgrading program every now and then by the Americans while stealing Turkish citizens' money just like with the F35 fiasco

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1861487599086420348

 

[I_Love_F16]

There is only one country that helps Turkey and that is Turkey itself. We should stop wanting things or running after things that they don't want to give us.
Stop crying as if he is to blame for everything, be happy that he is pushing the arms industry like no president before him and really investing massively.
If you disagree....Then list what the Presidents/Prime Ministers before Erdogan have achieved in Turkey? We didn't even have our own intelligent munitions, and that is the minimum requirement for a state that has to or wants to defend itself!
It's not Erdogan's fault if Turkey didn't get modern air defense systems like PATRIOTS, we were forced to buy S-400s, we only had Air Defense Systems from the Cold War 70/80s at a very critical time.

The Syrian War back then showed that of the supposed NATO allies, only Spain and its PATRIOTS in Turkey were there continuously, so you don't even need to think about countries like Germany, France, Italy and the USA helping Turkey in an emergency. The Mutual Assistance Treaty is nothing more than a piece of paper to wipe your ass with.

Ah yes, the S-400 was so much needed that it is left taking dust in a storage.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Beuatiful news came from the minister of National Defence; Turkey is abandoning the 21 billion dollar deal for F16 modernisation to Viper status and instead going with complete Ozgur modernisation for their F16s fleet. So, what does this mean:

1- as rumored from before, the Ozgur upgrade kit is quite as good as the viper at the very least; if not even better, considering that the Turkish Air Force is quite confident in giving the whole deal to TAI
2- Turkey boosting its own defence industry by giving them more jobs and role to play
3- Turkey saving around 13 billion dollars while obtaining a fleet just as good as the Vipers
4- Being national, means that Turkey doesnt have to release any sensitive info about the new upgraded planes while with the Viper kit, the Americans would know all the ins and outs of the Viper
5- Turkey wont be threatened to stop the upgrading program every now and then by the Americans while stealing Turkish citizens' money just like with the F35 fiasco

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1861475274619068620

Possibly because of the green light for the Eurofighter deal.

 

[dBSPL]

My understanding from a series of statements in the press in recent months is that the Ministry of Defence was pushing hard for the Viper modernization to take place within TAI. Presumably, it could not be ensured that the modernization would proceed domestically. After yesterday's news, I have questions: While the decision to proceed with Özgür-II is being made, what exactly will we leave out of the package approved by the senate? The Minister gave a very vague answer with an answer like 40 new jets and a few weapons.

The package included huge air to air missile aproval as 952 AMRAAM AIM-120C-8(D) and 401 AIM-9X Block II. Will we use all of this approved amount? The package also includes another remarkable purchase, 96 AGM-88B HARM and again 96 (+10 training) AGM-88E AARGM. In my opinion, the exact number of anti-radiation missiles specified in the list will be used.

Apart from the weapon systems, after the numbers to be purchased for the new aircraft are deducted, the remaining amount is: 109 +10 spare SABR, 118 sets +10 spare IVEWS and 16 SNIPER ATP. In my humble opinion, I think we should consider purchasing additional AN/APG-83, not for other avionics but perhaps to speed up the process until MURAD AESA is fully ready. We will be using this radar with 40 aircraft anyway. I am also in favor of purchasing a few more additional Sniper pods and Integrated Electronic Warfare Suite.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Ah yes, the S-400 was so much needed that it is left taking dust in a storage.

Bakan Güler’den S-400 Açıklaması: “Mahzenler dahi yapıldı” | SavunmaSanayiST

Milli Savunma Bakanı Yaşar Güler, Türkiye'nin envanterindeki S-400 Hava Savunma Sistemi ve konuşlandırılacağı noktayla ilgili açıklamalarda bulundu.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Yaşar Güler, Minister of National Defense, made statements about the S-400 Air Defense System in Turkey's inventory and where it will be deployed.

In the statement made by Minister Güler, "Every place where we will install and use the S-400 is certain. All the places where they will settle there, including the cellars underneath, are all done and ready. Only when we give an order, everyone will move to whichever region we give the order to. In other words, the danger of an attack on us will rise to something at a very high level, so we will use the S-400."

Turkey's S-400 HSFS Procurement Process
In September 2017, Turkey signed an agreement worth USD 2.5 billion with the Russian Federation for the supply of two squadrons (4 batteries) of S-400 Air Defense Missile Systems (S-400 Air Defense Missile Systems) as part of "urgent needs". As part of the agreement, the first S-400 fleet worth USD 1.3 billion was delivered to the Turkish Air Force in July 2019.

It is known that there is currently 1 squadron, i.e. 2 batteries of S-400 Air Defense Systems in the Turkish Air Force inventory. These 2 batteries of S-400 can be deployed to 2 different locations.

The S-400 is also, apart from the technical possibilities of intercepting ballistic missiles, a safeguard that the supposed allies will hold their feet still until we have reached a similar level with Siper 1 & 2, it is nothing more than an insurance policy. Apart from that, no one knows for sure whether a technology transfer has taken place, whether active or passive, and this is not being made public in order to significantly improve our own air defense systems.
The development of functional air defense systems is just as complex in development as a high-performance engine, something like that takes an average of 8-9 years, and even then you are not even close to top notch systems in contrast to our systems, e.g. the PATRIOT and S400 have been tested in combat for years and collect METADATA to improve their own software and hardware and their target acquisition.
Not every country can develop highly complex air defense systems on the side.
Israel and the USA are only able to improve their systems because Israel, for example, is fired on almost weekly.

 

[Khagan1923]

According to American rumours we asked not only for F-35A but the B model as well, supposedly in a 40-20 Split. Like I said if the Air Force goes for the F-35A Navy will want in on the cake.

Still would rather keep the kits instead of the 40 F-16. Özgür-II is the modernization that is on par with Block 70 and we don't know when that will be ready. Block 70 conversion could start next year if we sign the deal at the end of this year.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I am not a fan of upgrade kits from US as Block 70, Özgur II has similar performance values, even if the MURAD radar system is worse than AN/APG 83, there would still be a possibility to improve the own radar system including its target acquisition from the knowledge of the new F-16 Block 70 airplanes.
Also, with Qatar we have a backdoor ally where we have the opportunity to analyze and learn their Eurofighter, and Rafaele AESA Radar Systems, EW, and Software & Hardware if it has not already been done in the meantime.

 

[begturan]

Looking at the developments up until today, I understand that Turkey will focus on national warplane and modernization projects no matter what, but the F35 and other planes are being used as a purely political tool against America.

Buying American-made planes may mean guaranteeing the engines we will buy for the Hürjet and Kaan projects. In addition, our dependence on America for ammunition and spare parts also reveals our will to continue our good relations with them in the future.

The purchase of S400s was also a precaution against America's Middle East plans, now that the Siper and Steel Dome projects have been implemented, the S400s no longer have any importance, if necessary, we can sell the S400s to any friendly and allied country.

 

[hugh]

I think we're reading too much into the words of a single visitor. they would always dangle the carrot in front of us but would they let us have it? I don't think so. At least not in the near term

 

[Sanchez]

Özgur II has similar performance values

Özgür 2 doesn't exist yet. Its development deal was signed last year.

The purchase of S400s was also a precaution against America's Middle East plans

It wasn't.

the S400s no longer have any importance

S-400 never had any single real world capability for our air force. They've been staying in hangars in Ankara since their calibration tests were completed in Sinop in 2020.

we can sell the S400s to any friendly and allied country

"Lavrov: Turkey must get Russia's permission to sell S-400s to a third country."

Lavrov: Türkiye S-400’leri üçüncü bir ülkeye satmak için Rusya'nın iznini almak zorunda

Rusya Dışişleri Bakanı Sergey Lavrov, Türkiye ile imzalanan anlaşmada yer alan "son kullanıcı sertifikasyonu" gereği, silahları teslim alan ülkenin, başka bir satış yapmadan önce Rusya’dan onay almak zorunda olduğunu vurguladı. fazla oku Bu bölüm, konuyla ilgili referans noktalarını içerir...

www.indyturk.com

 

[Khagan1923]

I think we're reading too much into the words of a single visitor. they would always dangle the carrot in front of us but would they let us have it? I don't think so. At least not in the near term

I think it is a bit more serious when your Minister of Defense comes out and says straight face we are in talks to buy the F-35A and the Americans want to sell it so we canceled the kits.

There were already rumours going about that both sides were holding talks for a return and both sides wanted it to happen. Remember the news from greek media?
They usually get those things right because someone leaks it to them. They were also one of the first to report about the F-16 Block 70 purchase.

Anything can happen but Güler talking like this openly signals to me that the talks are very advanced on this topic.

 

[hugh]

I think it is a bit more serious when your Minister of Defense comes out and says straight face we are in talks to buy the F-35A and the Americans want to sell it so we canceled the kits.

There were already rumours going about that both sides were holding talks for a return and both sides wanted it to happen. Remember the news from greek media?
They usually get those things right because someone leaks it to them. They were also one of the first to report about the F-16 Block 70 purchase.

Anything can happen but Güler talking like this openly signals to me that the talks are very advanced on this topic.

the thing is, I don't have any pieces left in me to give the benefit of the doubt to the US-Turkiye bilateral relations. They would, like Germans, always seek the chance to fuck us over and they have the window of opportunity due to our mismanaged economy. They will be teasing us to force us to walk their path but it will be an ever eluding target.

Besides, the talk of "they saw KAAN, understood our progress and gave in to sell F35s" sounds fishy to me when KAAN's success is contingent on the delivery of the US engines. Bear in mind that we won't see an operational TF35K for a decade or so.

 

[Saithan]

Jerkin us around while Syria is being cooked, is what it is.