TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[what]

And here we go again with the F35 discussions
If we get the chance, we should still buy 50-60 F35. At least enough F35B for our ACC and then some.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Our air force is in deep weakness. We have become an unpopular member of NATO as a result of the great stupidity in foreign policy in the last 10 years. At times we have been close to Russia and have pursued a hypocritical policy. Russia has nothing to give us except natural gas. We are paying the price of unnecessary rapprochement with Russia by weakening our air force.

I think the US will prolong the F-35 process and stall us instead of saying "no".

I am sure none of the Nato leaders trust Erdogan in any way. I don't think it is possible to restore trust.

Turkey has been screwed countless times in the past by the USA, Greece and the Armenia lobby in the USA, even without Erdogan.
At that time Turkey had to accept a lot of things just like that, now it is different we are developing our own weapon systems, even if none of these countries deliver fighter planes or impose conditions on Turkey that we do not accept.
Sooner or later we will have our fighter planes & drones.
Quite honestly, Turkey has been flying with outdated systems for 10 years, nothing happened then and nothing will happen today or in the next 5-10 years.
Turkey is massively building up the navy with ships, air defense systems and drones to close this gap for the next 5-10 years so that no one gets a stupid idea.

 

[boredaf]

This is what the minister said about modernisations:

"TAI facilities are capable of carrying out the modernization in question themselves, so we handed over the modernization task to TAI."

So, either we made a deal to extend the Özgür project to remaining F16s or he is trying to save face for ditching the modernisation.

 

[what]

Take it with a big pinch of salt, but there are rumours supporting Gülers statements. Even before he made them:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1861474526514545062

 

[hugh]

Take it with a big pinch of salt, but there are rumours supporting Gülers statements. Even before he made them:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1861474526514545062

there's no source for the claims in the tweets

 

[YeşilVatan]

I'd like to remind that Americans has to go through legislative process and change the law before delivering F-35s to TAF. It is against the law for them to deliver F-35s.

 

[what]

Yes its a twitter rumour without any meat on the bone.

According to Güler on F35:
We have six of our aircraft there. The Americans, upon seeing that we have developed and flown KAAN (Turkey’s indigenous fighter jet), have changed their perspective on the F-35. They are now expressing that they could provide F-35s. However, there has been no progress on this matter. We continue to insist on reinstating our production share in the program and have also communicated our request to acquire 40 F-35 aircraft

On the f16 deal:

With this, we were going to acquire 40 F-16 Block 70 Viper aircraft and modernize 79 others, but we have abandoned this plan. This is because our TUSAŞ facilities are now capable of handling the F-16 modernization process independently. We will instead procure 40 aircraft along with specialized munitions, with the total cost amounting to approximately 6.5 to 7 billion dollars

SON DAKİKA HABER | Bakan Güler'den F-35 açıklaması: KAAN'ı yaptığımızı görünce düşünceleri değişti - CNN Türk Sondakika Haberler | Video

Son Dakika Türkiye Gündem Haberleri - Son dakika haberler... Milli Savunma Bakanı Yaşar Güler, F -35te 6 tane uçağımız var orada. Şimdi KAANı yaptığımızı ...

www.cnnturk.com

So new deal size 7bln Dollars and maybe confirmation that the upgrades will be handled in Turkey at TAI.

 

[boredaf]

I'd like to remind that Americans has to go through legislative process and change the law before delivering F-35s to TAF. It is against the law for them to deliver F-35s.

This is where the new administration might be helpful for us, as Republicans control both the House and the Senate now. We just have to bribe, I'm sorry, lobby Trump to give the order.

 

[Sanchez]

So new deal size 7bln Dollars and maybe confirmation that the upgrades will be handled in Turkey at TAI.

If we take his words at face value, he says we'll only get 40 new built F-16Vs. We can't convert our F-16s to Vipers without Viper mod kits, which he says we are not getting from US. That must mean all the Peace Onyx 1, 2, 3 F-16s are going through Özgür, excluding the 29 Block 50+. Those aircraft will be Özgürs, not Vipers.

-
To add, American law is clear. There is no F-35s with S-400s still in Turkey.

 

[hugh]

This is where the new administration might be helpful for us, as Republicans control both the House and the Senate now. We just have to bribe, I'm sorry, lobby Trump to give the order.

good luck bribing them without taking the jews on your side. and the bitter reality is, even if we have solid contracts approved by the senate, the deliveries will be spread out on many years that they could, at any point, coerce us to "behave". it will be the rope tied around our necks.

F35 thing made sense 4-5 years ago but it's too late for us to jump on that wagon. We should be grateful if we can get F110s for our KAANs.

 

[what]

Would we drop the Eurofighter deal if the F35 window opens or would we buy them on top of the EF?

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I don't want to talk politics, but we have to.

When Erdogan came, we had a brand new air force. The F-35 project was prepared. If Erdogan hadn't messed things up, the Armenian and Greek lobbies would still be unable to do anything. Let's stop talking about foreign powers, there were foreign powers before Erdogan and there will be foreign powers after him.

There is only one country that helps Turkey and that is Turkey itself. We should stop wanting things or running after things that they don't want to give us.
Stop crying as if he is to blame for everything, be happy that he is pushing the arms industry like no president before him and really investing massively.
If you disagree....Then list what the Presidents/Prime Ministers before Erdogan have achieved in Turkey? We didn't even have our own intelligent munitions, and that is the minimum requirement for a state that has to or wants to defend itself!
It's not Erdogan's fault if Turkey didn't get modern air defense systems like PATRIOTS, we were forced to buy S-400s, we only had Air Defense Systems from the Cold War 70/80s at a very critical time.

The Syrian War back then showed that of the supposed NATO allies, only Spain and its PATRIOTS in Turkey were there continuously, so you don't even need to think about countries like Germany, France, Italy and the USA helping Turkey in an emergency. The Mutual Assistance Treaty is nothing more than a piece of paper to wipe your ass with.

 

[Shtr]

Exact source: https://www.tbmm.gov.tr/Tutanaklar/TutanakGoster/4044

It is long but you can search "40 tane de F-35'i almak için isteğimizi bildirdik." as in the text.

 

[cr33pt3d]

i hope that the 40 f35 'sare not all f35A's.
would be nice to add between 8-10 F35B' to Anadolu. waiting for Mugem to enter service those would serve as learning path for our naval aviators.
let's hope we can secure those engines at the same time. f110 and F404 is more vital than those viper kits. the question remains how the hell we gonna pay all those goodies.what about the Typhoon deal ?

 

[TheInsider]

What will the planes protect then?

This purchase will align with NATO's posture against Russia and Iran.

 

[dBSPL]

Exact source: https://www.tbmm.gov.tr/Tutanaklar/TutanakGoster/4044

It is long but you can search "40 tane de F-35'i almak için isteğimizi bildirdik." as in the text.

It is also understood from the same minutes that there is no positive view on returning to the F-35 purchase without take back the JSF production share. (p.82) In my personal opinion, the main issue to be insisted on is keeping the major maintenance services within the country as in the initial agreement.

 

[uçuyorum]

This purchase will align with NATO's posture against Russia and Iran.

Ok but what will we use the planes to protect if we abandon everything that matters to us

 

[Lool]

Beuatiful news came from the minister of National Defence; Turkey is abandoning the 21 billion dollar deal for F16 modernisation to Viper status and instead going with complete Ozgur modernisation for their F16s fleet. So, what does this mean:

1- as rumored from before, the Ozgur upgrade kit is quite as good as the viper at the very least; if not even better, considering that the Turkish Air Force is quite confident in giving the whole deal to TAI
2- Turkey boosting its own defence industry by giving them more jobs and role to play
3- Turkey saving around 13 billion dollars while obtaining a fleet just as good as the Vipers
4- Being national, means that Turkey doesnt have to release any sensitive info about the new upgraded planes while with the Viper kit, the Americans would know all the ins and outs of the Viper
5- Turkey wont be threatened to stop the upgrading program every now and then by the Americans while stealing Turkish citizens' money just like with the F35 fiasco

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1861487599086420348

 

[I_Love_F16]

There is only one country that helps Turkey and that is Turkey itself. We should stop wanting things or running after things that they don't want to give us.
Stop crying as if he is to blame for everything, be happy that he is pushing the arms industry like no president before him and really investing massively.
If you disagree....Then list what the Presidents/Prime Ministers before Erdogan have achieved in Turkey? We didn't even have our own intelligent munitions, and that is the minimum requirement for a state that has to or wants to defend itself!
It's not Erdogan's fault if Turkey didn't get modern air defense systems like PATRIOTS, we were forced to buy S-400s, we only had Air Defense Systems from the Cold War 70/80s at a very critical time.

The Syrian War back then showed that of the supposed NATO allies, only Spain and its PATRIOTS in Turkey were there continuously, so you don't even need to think about countries like Germany, France, Italy and the USA helping Turkey in an emergency. The Mutual Assistance Treaty is nothing more than a piece of paper to wipe your ass with.

Ah yes, the S-400 was so much needed that it is left taking dust in a storage.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Beuatiful news came from the minister of National Defence; Turkey is abandoning the 21 billion dollar deal for F16 modernisation to Viper status and instead going with complete Ozgur modernisation for their F16s fleet. So, what does this mean:

1- as rumored from before, the Ozgur upgrade kit is quite as good as the viper at the very least; if not even better, considering that the Turkish Air Force is quite confident in giving the whole deal to TAI
2- Turkey boosting its own defence industry by giving them more jobs and role to play
3- Turkey saving around 13 billion dollars while obtaining a fleet just as good as the Vipers
4- Being national, means that Turkey doesnt have to release any sensitive info about the new upgraded planes while with the Viper kit, the Americans would know all the ins and outs of the Viper
5- Turkey wont be threatened to stop the upgrading program every now and then by the Americans while stealing Turkish citizens' money just like with the F35 fiasco

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1861475274619068620

Possibly because of the green light for the Eurofighter deal.