TR Aircraft Carrier and Amphibious Ship Programs

[dBSPL]

Well, in the end, it's up to the nation to figure out if they're willing to name the ship and the associated risks based on its assumption of its capability. I'm just offering a new perspective.

The U.S. Navy has and had a ship named after their country because they're confident that no potential enemy could realistically sink her

Okay, I won't insist.

Sulh (Peace) and (Mavi)Vatan (Blue Homeland) are the ones I like the most among the ones shared so far. Although their word origins are foreign, they have been common words in our spoken language for millennia.

 

[Zafer]

As far as I understand it if there is no catapult to assist take off you need to keep the ship speeding in the water to help give planes taking off additional air speed. You can do this if you have nuclear propulsion but when you don't have it you will be consuming fuel to do it. So it is a must to have some catapult system to avoid racing the ship. If our shipbuilders are not confident our near term capabilities are up to making a half power EMALS then we can keep the ski-jump in place until we upgrade to a catapult. But honestly I would not include it even in the initial designs as it means an under-performing ship and you want to upgrade it from day one of operations.

I wish our engineers go for a compact but high sortie ship from day one and not leave it to future upgrades.

 

[Zafer]

Another consideration meanwhile is if an AC deck can be used to recover space launch vehicles' first stage like they do with Space X first stages. It can be a side job for an AC if they can make it happen. Actually even launching a space rocket with the help of an LHD, an AC or an LST would be a fantastic work that solves two problems in one go.

 

[Zafer]

Well, in the end, it's up to the nation to figure out if they're willing to name the ship and the associated risks based on its assumption of its capability. I'm just offering a new perspective.

The U.S. Navy has and had a ship named after their country because they're confident that no potential enemy could realistically sink her

We only rank #8 in military power so it is risky to put all eggs in one basket.

 

[dBSPL]

As far as I understand it if there is no catapult to assist take off you need to keep the ship speeding in the water to help give planes taking off additional air speed. You can do this if you have nuclear propulsion but when you don't have it you will be consuming fuel to do it. So it is a must to have some catapult system to avoid racing the ship. If our shipbuilders are not confident our near term capabilities are up to making a half power EMALS then we can keep the ski-jump in place until we upgrade to a catapult. But honestly I would not include it even in the initial designs as it means an under-performing ship and you want to upgrade it from day one of operations.

I wish our engineers go for a compact but high sortie ship from day one and not leave it to future upgrades.

Is there any study started in Korea on magnetic catapult systems? The French will use EMALS in the new type of aircraft carrier they are designing, but I think GA got that tender, so it is outsourced to the US.

 

[Zafer]

Is there any study started in Korea on magnetic catapult systems? The French will use EMALS in the new type of aircraft carrier they are designing, but I think GA got that tender, so it is outsourced to the US.

No idea about what Koreans are doing but seems like so for France and the UK are looking to get a half power EMALS too, named something else to make the ship UCAV and small plane launch capable. Also nowadays both launch and recovery are magnetically operated, so similar components will be used for both.

We need a ship that we can build in 5 years tops starting today. It may take a couple of modifications over the years to get to a ships that you want plenty of but we have to start from somewhere.

 

[Anmdt]

Is there any study started in Korea on magnetic catapult systems? The French will use EMALS in the new type of aircraft carrier they are designing, but I think GA got that tender, so it is outsourced to the US.

I think Korea starts (as far as HHI has unveiled) with two alternatives on the CV-X project, one has CATOBAR, another has STOBAR configuration. They might evaluate both in terms of cost and effectivess and continue with one. CATOBAR naturally has the highest efficiency in terms of the operation planning but yeah the cost is folded with inclusion of catapult system. They foresee a budget of $7.7 Billion for the entire AC with all systems (airwing) included. CATOBAR may see $10 billion safely.

South Korean CVX Aircraft Carrier Program in the Mist - Naval News

A detailed plan for the CVX aircraft carrier program is nowhere to be found in the Mid-term Defense Blueprint released by South Korea's MoD.

www.navalnews.com

STOBAR is most we can do in long shot, unless we find huge reserves oil or a breakthrough in chip production . May as well wait for the pink snow. Imho Trakya also may have STOBAR but arresting wires would be build for smaller loads. With reconfiguration of the aft elevator.

 

[Anmdt]

Fixed it for you;

TCG Sulh, which also fits the motto.
This will also sail around the world, a noice word fun - we bring 'Peace' to your place.

Here are my technical remarks on the project or what we have seen so far.

The design is roughly a template showing the Navy's intentions, requirements even, nothing solid yet on the design but we know something for sure;

1. We are to be satisfied with skijump assisted take-off. This also interests the aircraft designers, a catapult launch requires a design input from today (as well as operational planning, MTOW and so on).
2. For the time being we will have to make do with mechanical propulsion. However, I personally expect a twin-island configuration in later iterations with a semi-IEP configuration. Just a wild guess, but as in the OPV, we may have gas turbines directly driving the propeller and larger diesel engines positioned around mid-ship with exhaust going through the forward island, and these gensets can either drive the propeller or supply some 'intensive energy demand'.
3. The speed is set at 25 knots, which is also DIMDEG's maximum speed in a given sea state. So the guys increased the speed requirement of DIMDEG in lieu of preparing an aircraft carrier.
4. We see 4, fixed face AESA, probably the X-band which can also serve as approach radar, the top radar seems of an S-band, volume search. It is a wild guess, but the X-band radar may be configured to manage drones in visual range. I see no additional antennas for the drone.
5. In this context, I expect a conformal X-band satellite antenna for wide bandwidth communications. Is this even possible? Maybe not, but we have 15 years minimum to make it available.
6. The second point refers to, is that we are stuck with a single island configuration. Unless otherwise we switch to a semi-IEP.
7. An angled landing deck is almost certain, but not put in the first template.
8. Unlike the earlier projects, this time the Navy has put a cap on the tonnage, the tonnage given is the maximum ever and I expect it to go down between 50 and 55 and settle there in later iterations.

We should be glad for these reasons;

• Anything DPO sketches eventually goes into construction and to the service, they are not a shipdesign office that plays with concepts for visuality but a place that makes Navy's requirement into comprehensible visual concepts, that later can be worked on by other companies/institutions.
• They are not adopting an azimuth thruster based solution because there is no available azimuth that provides such a propulsion power ( safely speaking of 100 MW ) and unlike Anadolu, this girl is prepared for real action. Therefore their intention to keep propulsion as plain as possible,

As per we spoke few months ago, jokingly on that Navy may as well use TF-X on Anadolu, who has given the 3D models of TF-X and tempted them to place it on the AC? Man this is a great trolling half of the internet trying to rationalize TF-X on AC, without realizing the airplabe wouldn't fit to ski-jump and scratch the ground while taking off.

You have seen elf on a shelf, now wait for A-400 on AC?

 

[Radonsider]

for the record, there is no programme in TUSAŞ to make KAAN AC/Naval based. Maybe 5-6 years later they would go on to design a new aircraft similar to KF-21 for the carrier but something actually stealth unlike KF-21

 

[Brave Janissary]

TCG ÖTÜKEN
OR
TCG MAREŞAL FEVZİ ÇAKMAK
OR
TCG KIBRIS
OR
TCG SAKARYA (DESTİNY BATTLE OF US)

 

[Bogeyman]

In the January 2024 issue of Mavi Vatan Magazine, Naval Staff Major Yusuf Emre shared the naval aviation concept created on the subject in his article Review of Aircraft Carrier Procurement.

12 Hürjet (air to air/air to ground)
4 Hürjet (electronic warfare)
12 KIZILELMA
5 Anka-3
4 HEİK helicopters
4 GIHAs

scaled as

https://kutuphane.msu.edu.tr/?arama=2024&detayliArama=&alanSablon=&konu=&tur=&gorunum=listeBuyuk&sno=3&p=0&recid=843

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Navalized hürjet does not strike me as a good platform imho. Seems like a huge compromise, like the idea of a naval Tejas.

The program needs customers but to kill an as of yet unborn naval aviation fleet before it even comes is a weird choice.

Yes in future Turkiye needs to buipd naval KAAN perhaps smaller at 17 meter but should be air superiority fighter and steath.
Aslo Air force needs to build after 2040 to replace f16V a single engine Kaan , smaller and cheaper like Russia did or USA with multirole f35 .

 

[uçuyorum]

Navalized hürjet does not strike me as a good platform imho. Seems like a huge compromise, like the idea of a naval Tejas.

The program needs customers but to kill an as of yet unborn naval aviation fleet before it even comes is a weird choice.

Well you still need a naval trainer too so, making a variant with operational capacity wouldn't hurt as a stopgap, until eventually a Naval Kaan or whatever proper plane is planned.

 

[Zafer]

We need a twin TF10k powered Hürjet/D LCA for the Turkish aircraft carrier. A second iteration of it can be stealth as well.

 

[Sanchez]

Moved the relevant posts to the new carrier thread. Please use this thread for carrier and amphibious projects.
-
I'll try to read the whole thing later, but idea of using droner tankers and helicopters for AEW is interesting, both are ideas I like a lot.

 

[Tornadoss]

View attachment 66479

In the January 2024 issue of Mavi Vatan Magazine, Naval Staff Major Yusuf Emre shared the naval aviation concept created on the subject in his article Review of Aircraft Carrier Procurement.

12 Hürjet (air to air/air to ground)
4 Hürjet (electronic warfare)
12 KIZILELMA
5 Anka-3
4 HEİK helicopters
4 GIHAs

scaled as

https://kutuphane.msu.edu.tr/?arama=2024&detayliArama=&alanSablon=&konu=&tur=&gorunum=listeBuyuk&sno=3&p=0&recid=843

I think such ship needs something like E-2 Hawkeye.

 

[Sanchez]

I think such ship needs something like E-2 Hawkeye.

It can't without CATOBAR.

 

[what]

Navalizing armed Hürjet for just 12 pieces or even 2/3x that number will be expensive.

 

[BaburKhan]

Navalizing armed Hürjet for just 12 pieces or even 2/3x that number will be expensive.

Would it not make sense to purchase more naval Hürjet deploy them on FOB in Libya and use them for naval attack Missions as part of A2/AD Strategy ?

 

[what]

It would make Hürjets cheaper per unit if you order more. To spread the development costs. And As far as I understand, navalized aircrafts are usually very expensive.
Our resident naval experts could enlighten us, I'm just looking at it from an economic point of view.