TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Heartbang]

Do you guys think if we turned M48s into unmanned, half-mobile defensive platforms it would be good?

Turn the M48's into unmanned loyal wingmen for Altay tanks to run wolfpack tactics against enemy armor, do scouting duties etc. . Even if it fails to penetrate the enemy tanks, it would knock out the electronic systems on the outside, wreaking havoc on the APS and such.

The Terminator was a failure.

The failure of the BMP-T's are mostly due to the Russian generals failing to figure out how to use them to their advantage and military higher-ups being too shy to send those under fire under cost concerns. The concept is sound.

 

[Afif]

Turn the M48's into unmanned loyal wingmen for Altay tanks

Tanks doesn't have wing.

 

[YeşilVatan]

Turn the M48's into unmanned loyal wingmen for Altay tanks to run wolfpack tactics against enemy armor

M48's are old. What you are talking about needs reliability and mobility.

I'm talking about cheap unmanned mobile pillboxes with reasonable sensors and 105 cannons.

First and foremost, you really need to find conceptual application of such platform within Turkish military doctrine.
And i dont see any.

Conceptual application is there if you at least try to see it. Actually, I can't think of any other military having the same problem. We have frozen lines because americans and russians are restricting military action. Which means we have a bonus factor limiting our capabilities. The threat comes in the form of infiltration teams firing ATGMs.

Again, M48 tank is *old*, so we need to utilize it where it makes sense. "Cheap unmanned mobile pillboxes with reasonable sensors and 105 cannons". If you have a frozen line, you need to protect your soldiers holding that line, and can't change the situation in a proactive manner, then this is exactly what you'd want.

 

[Afif]

I'm talking about cheap unmanned mobile pillboxes with reasonable sensors and 105 cannons.

Conceptual application is there if you at least try to see it. Actually, I can't think of any other military having the same problem. We have frozen lines because americans and russians are restricting military action. Which means we have a bonus factor limiting our capabilities. The threat comes in the form of infiltration teams firing ATGMs.

Again, M48 tank is *old*, so we need to utilize it where it makes sense. "Cheap unmanned mobile pillboxes with reasonable sensors and 105 cannons". If you have a frozen line, you need to protect your soldiers holding that line, and can't change the situation in a proactive manner, then this is exactly what you'd want.

I am guessing you are talking about Turkish occupied areas in Syria?

In that case, heavy IFVs are better suited to fight such insurgents than 105mm light tank. However, the later would be more useful if there was a conventional mechanized enemy infantry. Which there isnt.

 

[Heartbang]

Tanks doesn't have wing.

Duh.

 

[Fairon]

We have around 2500 M48 tanks and we have been able to keep them operational. Why don't we replace the turrets of these tanks with unmanned turrets and turn them into armed unmanned ground vehicles? They can provide serious firepower support.

Please don't give TSK any ideas. We need to get rid of M48's, not extending their life.

Who am i kidding we will modernize and use M48 till the end of time won't we.

 

[dBSPL]

The Azerbaijan Turkish army has around 120 T-72S. And TAF has more than 600 M60A3TTS.

While Altay will be the main battle tank of both countries; T-72S (and T-90s) on the Azerbaijani land army side, and M60 A3TTS (along with M60T Fırat and Leopard 2A4s) on the TAF side could become secondary main battle tanks with common turret design and armour, countermeasures, ballistic and fire control computers, fire suppression systems, etc. that all with common infrastructure.

In addition to standardization, the militaries of both countries should now start to increase their joint logistics capability at the unit level. Such jointly planned modernization programs can provide important experience in this regard.

Please don't give TSK any ideas. We need to get rid of M48's, not extending their life.

Who am i kidding we will modernize and use M48 till the end of time won't we.

We no longer want to see M48s or old M60s in the Efes exercises btw. (ordumuzun vitrin tatbikatlarından biri artık) Or,the current amphibious brigade should be expanded to a division level, while a mechanized/armored landing brigade should be added to it, so these tanks(not M48s but may M60s) should be given to the naval command for good. Marines knows what to do.

 

[Hasanrize]

Again, M48 tank is *old*, so we need to utilize it where it makes sense.

Yeah, making them razor blades would be the best way to utilize them.

 

[Afif]

Duh.

Jokes aside, we should note that, unmanned tank is not as much appealing to todays military planners as unmanned areal vehicles are.
Two completely different warfighting domain with very difference tactics and strategies .
You can see Abrams X, KF51 Panther or Korean next gen MBT are all manned. Of course of some these will have optionally unmanned capability. But not necessarily to be used in the practical sense.

The same is true for tank's 'unmanned wingmen'.

 

[Nutuk]

IMHO we should not invest much in tanks anymore, upgrade a hundred M60, upgrade 200 Leo 2A4 and produce 150 Altay (not more)


The tank is already for some time not the strong weapon it has been in WW2. Back than there were not that many dangers for a tank, and it was a difficult to stop weapon but see Syria, Karabag, Ukraine - Russia wars were tanks get destroyed by thousands.

Nowadays tank has too many dangers to cope with: IED's, mines, ATGM, attack helicopters, guided artillery munitions, fighter jets with guided munition, drones with guided munition, kamikaze drones.

We cannot entirely say that the tank is totally useless but it lost a lot of her appeal and usefulness, so much that the German engine blockade in the end was maybe a blessing.

I am of opinion that we should not invest in thousands of tanks, keep it at max 500, invest in useful stuff.

 

[No Name]

The Azerbaijan Turkish army has around 120 T-72S. And TAF has more than 600 M60A3TTS.

While Altay will be the main battle tank of both countries; T-72S (and T-90s) on the Azerbaijani land army side, and M60 A3TTS (along with M60T Fırat and Leopard 2A4s) on the TAF side could become secondary main battle tanks with common turret design and armour, countermeasures, ballistic and fire control computers, fire suppression systems, etc. that all with common infrastructure.

In addition to standardization, the militaries of both countries should now start to increase their joint logistics capability at the unit level. Such jointly planned modernization programs can provide important experience in this regard.



We no longer want to see M48s or old M60s in the Efes exercises btw. (ordumuzun vitrin tatbikatlarından biri artık) Or,the current amphibious brigade should be expanded to a division level, while a mechanized/armored landing brigade should be added to it, so these tanks(not M48s but may M60s) should be given to the naval command for good. Marines knows what to do.

Wasn't the Kaplan meant to be somewhat amphibious it makes more sense to give that the Navy has it was designed to be used in an environment in which it will be transported from one island to another.

 

[No Name]

Jokes aside, we should note that, unmanned tank is not as much appealing to todays military planners as unmanned areal vehicles are.
Two completely different warfighting domain with very difference tactics and strategies .
You can see Abrams X, KF51 Panther or Korean next gen MBT are all manned. Of course of some these will have optionally unmanned capability. But not necessarily to be used in the practical sense.

The same is true for tank's 'unmanned wingmen'.

instead of a tank, it is more likely for self-propelled artillery to be unmanned like the K9 thunder.

 

[Afif]

The Azerbaijan Turkish army has around 120 T-72S. And TAF has more than 600 M60A3TTS.

While Altay will be the main battle tank of both countries; T-72S (and T-90s) on the Azerbaijani land army side, and M60 A3TTS (along with M60T Fırat and Leopard 2A4s) on the TAF side could become secondary main battle tanks with common turret design and armour, countermeasures, ballistic and fire control computers, fire suppression systems, etc. that all with common infrastructure.

In addition to standardization, the militaries of both countries should now start to increase their joint logistics capability at the unit level. Such jointly planned modernization programs can provide important experience in this regard.

Bro, increasing the effort for joint standardization and joint logistic is very good initiative for both countries.

However, vast majority of Azerbaijan Armenia border as well as Azerbaijan Russia border are hill tracks.
Would a 65t heavy tank like Altay would be the best option for such environment?
Just saying, from our experience, maybe a light/medium tank would be better suited in hill tracks arenas.

I think, FNSS or Otokar can easily develop such platform within short time using existing technologies if Azerbaijani army require it.

What @Yasar thinks?

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618979134692270081

Tank modernization costs in the West

 

[Ripley]

While Altay will be the main battle tank of both countries

Is this a fact (because I’ve never heard of such a deal with Azerbaijan) or are you just suggesting a future proposal?

 

[-Sinan-]

BMC didn't delay the Tank. In fact they went beyond expectations and did it earlier than anyone thought. I mean people should really be more appreciative of the company, they did work their ass off to undo the mistakes of SSB.

I don't wanna be rude but people don't care about the internet random guy's delusions.

Tank was ready for serial production back in 2015.

Yerli tank tanıtıldı

Yerli tank "Altay", Başbakan Recep Tayyip Erdoğan'ın katıldığı törenle tanıtıldı. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

But because of our president Erdogan our tank have never materialized. I don't care what Erdo simps gonna wrote against this post, go cry somewhere else.

 

[Bmx98]

I don't wanna be rude but people don't care about the internet random guy's delusions.

Tank was ready for serial production back in 2015.

Yerli tank tanıtıldı

Yerli tank "Altay", Başbakan Recep Tayyip Erdoğan'ın katıldığı törenle tanıtıldı. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

But because of our corrupt president Erdogan our tank have never materialized. I don't care what Erdo simps gonna wrote against this post, go cry somewhere else.

Ready for serial production with German powerpack and subsystems yes. And how well did that "serial production" go. According to AA, Pars izci has been in serial production since 2021. But here we are in 2023 and no deliveries yet. Turkish media rushes out "serial production" claims to keep the people optimistic.

 

[bisbis]

I don't wanna be rude but people don't care about the internet random guy's delusions.

Tank was ready for serial production back in 2015.

Yerli tank tanıtıldı

Yerli tank "Altay", Başbakan Recep Tayyip Erdoğan'ın katıldığı törenle tanıtıldı. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

But because of our corrupt president Erdogan our tank have never materialized. I don't care what Erdo simps gonna wrote against this post, go cry somewhere else.

The tank was ready, the engine would come from Germany again. I think if the Koç group had produced the tank, Germany would not have given the power group for Altay Mbt again.

 

[Bmx98]

The tank was ready, the engine would come from Germany again. I think if the Koç group had produced the tank, Germany would not have given the power group for Altay Mbt again.

Of course, Germany imposed an embargo on Turkey as a country, it didn't matter which Turkish company produced the Tank they all would be embargoed. It was the mistake of SSB to trust Germay knowing the political climate that existed in Europe towards the post-2000s Turkish government.

 

[-Sinan-]

Ready for serial production with German powerpack and subsystems yes. And how well did that "serial production" go. According to AA, Pars izci has been in serial production since 2021. But here we are in 2023 and no deliveries yet. Turkish media rushes out "serial production" claims to keep the people optimistic.

Everybody knows what games happened so that Ethem Sancak (Erdogan's best buddy) could get the order, how Binali tried to bribe German firms. As a result project get delayed and Germans distanced themselves from the corrupt project

Not gonna argue with the certain people for 100th time. Like i said, go cry somewhere else.