TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Huelague]

I mean, all arms procurements are political decisions. Still, Leo2 came out on top of all tests we ran and it was the best tank available for our needs. Original Altay was basically a Turkish Leopard 2A7. There were no other tanks we liked at the time, literally. K2 came much later and even then, K2 we chose is a heavily modified one to suit our needs.

You should read 'Disaster of al-Bab'. Leo 2A4 is a crap tank.

 

[what]

On the topic of Leo 2A8, not that we're interested, but to compare prices:

In 2023, the Bundeswehr ordered a total of 18 Leopard 2A8s to replace the A6s delivered to Ukraine for a total purchase price of around 525.6 million euros[76][77]. The contract also includes a package for logistical support including spare parts and maintenance for 5 years. The delivery of 105 Leopard 2A8 main battle tanks has been agreed as an option for a further 2.4 billion euros[78] and is expected to join the force from 2025 onwards

Leopard 2 – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

 

[Sanchez]

You should read 'Disaster of al-Bab'. Leo 2A4 is a crap tank.

I already wrote about it yesterday on this same forum, it's on the last page.

Noone forced us to use 40 year old tanks against modern ATGMs and use horrible FSA militias as an infantry force to protect the tanks. There are no contemporaries to Leo2a4 that could survive Al Bab, it was hell on earth. We used M60A3s there as well. There are lot to talk about before we come to 2A4s.

 

[Scott Summers]

I already wrote about it yesterday on this same forum, it's on the last page.

Noone forced us to use 40 year old tanks against modern ATGMs and use horrible FSA militias as an infantry force to protect the tanks. There are no contemporaries to Leo2a4 that could survive Al Bab, it was hell on earth. We used M60A3s there as well. There are lot to talk about before we come to 2A4s.

The best German tanks were the Panzer-, Panther- and Tiger-series designed by Ferdinand Porsche.

After WW II the whole German arms branche is of Ali Express quality.

 

[I_Love_F16]

I just can't comprehend this hate against the Leopard right now. Can we take a minute and accept the fact that Leopard was the best thing we could get at that time. Our tank inventory was incredibly obsolete up until we acquired Leopard 2A4 and our best tank was second-hand M60A3s. 2A4 acquisition and Sabra modernisations were emergency programs at that point.

It was 1980s when we last bought brand-new tank, Leopard 1A3T1, rest was used up M48s and M60s. Another point you seem to miss is that Land Forces Command had chance to trial competitors of Leopard 2A6EX in Tank 2000 Tender. In trials 2A6EX beat the competition by large margin, ommand witness how badly Leclerc and Yatağan performed and how problematic and expensive to maintain Abrams was. Sadly 2A6EX acquisition was never finalised and the closest think we could get after Tank 2000 was 2A4.

Acquisition of Leopard was no blind-purchase it was best bang for its buck and there were no other proper option (also it was easiest to acquire). 2A4 has been neglected for too much far too long, and we suffered its catastrophic results.

+ the fact that many of our tanks were sitting ducks in the open terrain without cover. Some of them were obliterated by long range ATGM because of that.

 

[Ryder]

The best German tanks were the Panzer-, Panther- and Tiger-series designed by Ferdinand Porsche.

After WW II the whole German arms branche is of Ali Express quality.

Ferdinand Porsches Military weapons were largely all failures.

No doubt his a legend in the automotive world. Hence why Porsche is legendary.

 

[what]

Greek Army weighs options for breathing new life into Leopard 1 tanks​

Greek Army weighs options for breathing new life into Leopard 1 tanks

Germany's Krauss-Maffei Wegmann has partnered with local Greek supplier EODH and Spanish electronics firm Duma to propose an upgrade package.

www.defensenews.com

 

[TheInsider]

Greek Army weighs options for breathing new life into Leopard 1 tanks​

Greek Army weighs options for breathing new life into Leopard 1 tanks

Germany's Krauss-Maffei Wegmann has partnered with local Greek supplier EODH and Spanish electronics firm Duma to propose an upgrade package.

www.defensenews.com

Waste of money. Better upgrade M60s than Leo1s. Leo1 is a 40-tonne tank. You can't just magically put 10 tons of armor on it. M60 weighs 60 tonnes. When it is upgraded it performs toe to toe with modern tanks. Sabra modernization proves that.

If I were Greek MoD I would have upgraded M60s to Sabra level instead of Leo1s.

 

[Saithan]

I’m sorry, but aren’t our discussions coming back to the same old topics. We need new tanks and we need it to be domestic turret and engine, or we’ll never be free from wht we experienced with Altay.

 

[Merzifonlu]

We need BATU and UTKU Power Packs.

 

[Saithan]

We need BATU and UTKU Power Packs.

Why aren’t there any news about the powerpacks ?

when was the last news from the powerpacks ?

 

[Merzifonlu]

Former BMC CEO Murat YALÇINTAŞ says that

i) Azra engine will enter mass production in 2024,
ii) UTKU power package will enter mass production at the end of 2026,
and iii) BATU power package will enter mass production after 2027.

Of course, if things go as planned!!

 

[boredaf]

Former BMC CEO Murat YALÇINTAŞ says that

i) Azra engine will enter mass production in 2024,
ii) UTKU power package will enter mass production at the end of 2026,
and iii) BATU power package will enter mass production after 2027.

Of course, if things go as planned!!

I have zero confidence in that timeline. Altay project is the biggest disgrace of Turkish defence industry and proof of how short sighted people in charge actually are. The damn thing will be obsolete and in need of upgrades by the time production models start rolling out.

 

[Radonsider]

I dont get why people think Altay is obsolete

 

[uçuyorum]

I dont get why people think Altay is obsolete

It will have T2 etc right? So there is a roadmap for upgrades. But it remains to be seen if the company handling it is capable of evolving the design sufficiently with newer blocks.

 

[Radonsider]

I dont see any problems with Altay's that are performing the trial tests

 

[uçuyorum]

I dont see any problems with Altay's that are performing the trial tests

Is there a testing process that involves hitting and trying to destroy a working prototype?

 

[Radonsider]

Is there a testing process that involves hitting and trying to destroy a working prototype?

So you think Akkor is useless or that its armor was never tested?

 

[boredaf]

I dont get why people think Altay is obsolete

It's a 10 year old design that had its production delayed for 7 years and in the best case scenario given there it'll be almost 15 year old design that has had 12 year of delays in production. Just the simple fact that we are *still* going with manned turret is a proof that design is old already.

 

[Radonsider]

It's a 10 year old design that had its production delayed for 7 years and in the best case scenario given there it'll be almost 15 year old design that has had 12 year of delays in production. Just the simple fact that we are *still* going with manned turret is a proof that design is old already.

Just take a look between Altay in 2017 and 2023, you can see that they are similar but not the same. Major improvements on sensors, survavibility etc.

And no, unmanned turrets are not a thing of today, no-one is adopting them apart from Russia if you count T-14 as in service