TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[UkroTurk]

Altay is obsolete. Tanks of the 2030s will be inherently different with
3-man crew
50 tonnes of total weight
Smaller volume and lower silhouette.
Autoloader and unmanned turret
Hybrid propulsion
130 or 140mm main gun.
Next-gen internal combustion engines like American ACE opposed piston or MTU 892 Xa

Altay will have a T3 version
The T3 version will have an autoloader and unmanned turret and currently, this is as far as it goes.
If we expand the T3 project we might develop a 130 or 140mm gun for T3 and a hybrid propulsion system but this is limit of Altay.

We can't magically lower its weight to 50 tonnes.
We can't magically lower the total volume/dimensions and silhouette.
We can't magically turn it into a 3-man crew tank.

400 ALTAY MBT will be useful and lethal for next 40 years.
400 Altay won't be useless in 40 years.

Look, today still we could welcome medium weight tanks, IFVs with 120mm gun.

Low silhouette was the doctrine of WW2. Today low IR sign is more important. We could dress Anti-Heat skin on ALTAY. Also ALTAY could be upgraded with APS etc.

Noone said here , Turkish Land Forces would order thousands of Altay.

In future,There will always be an option for ALTAY next gen.

Who knows, after ten years manned tanks ( with 3 crew ) might be absolute..

 

[Quasar]

-ALTAY as it is, will be a modern and still some how affordable tank (and we need to keep it that way for a while) , sure Fantasy tanks do exist as prototypes or in very limited numbers... only a jammer can be expected as a potential needed near future upgrade to Altay for now

-ALTAY is the response to current threats and Türkiye's current potantial adversaries

 

[uçuyorum]

-ALTAY as it is, will be a modern and still some how affordable tank (and we need to keep it that way for a while) , sure Fantasy tanks do exist as prototypes or in very limited numbers... only a jammer can be expected as a potential needed near future upgrade to Altay for now

-ALTAY is the response to current threats and Türkiye's current potantial adversaries

I can't stop wondering if a brand new design, not specifically for Altay but for MBT concept in general, could come up with an actually useful and streamlined version of a "copecage" that reduces the impact of drones and smaller top attack munitions and one that doesn't impact the RCWS negatively

 

[TheInsider]

We can't sell Altay when AbramsX, K3, and KF51 Panther become available globally and this is not a distant future we are discussing. Those three projects gained momentum, they are not on paper projects.

Obsolete doesn't mean useless. An AK-47 is a useful rifle but I would rather have an MPT if I can.

 

[Radko]

We can't sell Altay when AbramsX, K3, and KF51 Panther become available globally and this is not a distant future we are discussing. Those three projects gained momentum, they are not on paper projects.

Obsolete doesn't mean useless. An AK-47 is a useful rifle but I would rather have an MPT if I can.

None of them are "real" tanks. They are all -failed- TDs

 

[UkroTurk]

AK-47

Comparing today's design with ancient AK-47??!!
BTW MPT is AR-15 platform and since the 70ies , the rifle is still useful.

The ALTAY MBT has latest and most fresh design.

 

[CAN_TR]

We can't sell Altay when AbramsX, K3, and KF51 Panther become available globally and this is not a distant future we are discussing. Those three projects gained momentum, they are not on paper projects.

Obsolete doesn't mean useless. An AK-47 is a useful rifle but I would rather have an MPT if I can.

Altay T3 is pretty much up to date even in the next decade, the only thing that needs an upgrade is the tank gun from 120mm to at least 130mm and a urgent solution to counter new threats like small UAV's and FPV's.

The futuristic/stealth look of AbramsX and K3 are more bling bling than functional.

 

[Radko]

Altay T3 is pretty much up to date even in the next decade, the only thing that needs an upgrade is the tank gun from 120mm to at least 130mm and a urgent solution to counter new threats like small UAV's and FPV's.

The futuristic/stealth look of AbramsX and K3 are more bling bling than functional.


View attachment 65725

2 points from that chart is already present in Altay rn (VR/AR thing and guided munitions (Tanok)

 

[Bogeyman]

Ukrainian tank officer speaking to El Mundo

- The era of tanks on the battlefield is now a thing of the past, thanks to drones.

- Drones rule the battlefield and there are thousands of them. The tank is now the most vulnerable weapon. They will not be used soon.

EL MUNDO visita por tercera vez a los tanquistas de la Brigada 92, acosados por los drones: "Nunca sabes si volverás vivo la noche siguiente"

Andrii no desea hablar de la guerra porque, después de varios encuentros con este reportero desde los primeros compases de la invasión, tiene una gran noticia que dar: acaba de ser

amp.elmundo.es

Ukrainian tank officers think that using tanks is tantamount to suicide.

 

[YeşilVatan]

Ukrainian tank officer speaking to El Mundo

- The era of tanks on the battlefield is now a thing of the past, thanks to drones.

- Drones rule the battlefield and there are thousands of them. The tank is now the most vulnerable weapon. They will not be used soon.

EL MUNDO visita por tercera vez a los tanquistas de la Brigada 92, acosados por los drones: "Nunca sabes si volverás vivo la noche siguiente"

Andrii no desea hablar de la guerra porque, después de varios encuentros con este reportero desde los primeros compases de la invasión, tiene una gran noticia que dar: acaba de ser

amp.elmundo.es

Ukrainian tank officers think that using tanks is tantamount to suicide.

One has to keep in mind that Russian-Ukrainian situation is pretty unique, as both can't get air dominance over the battlespace. This is pretty rare case, coupled with wide use of ATGMs, leads to stabilized lines and trench warfare which renders tanks ineffective.

 

[Nutuk]

Well the use of tank has certainly a high challenge with drones, however we also do not have anything yet to replace the tank.

Using a tank is challenging, not using a tank is equally challenging

 

[Bogeyman]

One has to keep in mind that Russian-Ukrainian situation is pretty unique, as both can't get air dominance over the battlespace. This is pretty rare case, coupled with wide use of ATGMs, leads to stabilized lines and trench warfare which renders tanks ineffective.

The threat here is related to very low altitude air defense. It is now possible to destroy tanks with mortars released from UAVs. It is very easy for active protection systems to run out of cartridges. And micro kamikaze drones are raining down from the sky like bullets. Even if Ukraine retains control of the airspace, it will still not alleviate the threats to these tanks.

 

[Anmdt]

The threat here is related to very low altitude air defense. It is now possible to destroy tanks with mortars released from UAVs. It is very easy for active protection systems to run out of cartridges. And micro kamikaze drones are raining down from the sky like bullets. Even if Ukraine retains control of the airspace, it will still not alleviate the threats to these tanks.

In my opinion simple Jammers like the one Meteksan developed for tanks would also intervene with those mortar-RPG carrying FPV drones. I am not an expert on the topic but i know FPV channels are analogue and fixed, easy to detect, easy to jam.

 

[Afif]

In my opinion simple Jammers like the one Meteksan developed for tanks would also intervene with those mortar-RPG carrying FPV drones. I am not an expert on the topic but i know FPV channels are analogue and fixed, easy to detect, easy to jam.

Yes, but the counter point to this, is ubiquity of AI enabled target recognition, and GPS independence terrain based navigation.

 

[Bogeyman]

In my opinion simple Jammers like the one Meteksan developed for tanks would also intervene with those mortar-RPG carrying FPV drones. I am not an expert on the topic but i know FPV channels are analogue and fixed, easy to detect, easy to jam.

While the other side can provide electronic support and attack, I doubt that this tactic will work 100%. Therefore, maintaining electronic warfare superiority even at the tactical level is a critical issue.

 

[Afif]

The M230LF with the ability to fire smart airburst ammunitions for counter-UAS role has been mounted on Abrams X.

When integrated with APS's radars, it will be able to shoot down small FVP drones and quadcopters efficiently.

Plus, it also enables the tank to perform IFV role.

 

[Bogeyman]

The M230LF with the ability to fire smart airburst ammunitions for counter-UAS role has been mounted on ABRAM X.

View attachment 65728

When integrated with APS's radars, it will be able to shoot down small FVP drones and quadcopters efficiently.

Plus, it also enables the tank to perform IFV role.

This system does not provide this protection against saturation attacks performed from opposite angles. In addition, the rotation speed of tanks' turrets is very slow. A tower-independent air defense system is required.

 

[CAN_TR]

Either you equip every MBT with those simple jamming devices or one/two MBT/IFV in the armored column take the extensive jamming role. Another solution would be 30mm RCWS with airburts rounds or 40mm grenade launchers like Aselsan IHTAR.

I rather sit in a modern MBT than being that poor infantry men in the trench chased by the FPV. Actually EW equipment for the regular Infantry is a must have nowdays, like it was with manportable AT weapons few decades ago.

 

[Afif]

This system does not provide this protection against saturation attacks performed from opposite angles. In addition, the rotation speed of tanks' turrets is very slow. A tower-independent air defense system is required.

RWS moves/rotates on its own. The engagement cna be fully automated. And airburst smart ammunitions is quite effective against swarm drones.

 

[YeşilVatan]

I would suggest a combination of Aselsan IHTAR radar and Aselsan ŞAHIN turret would be an effective solution against small drone threats. Should be enough space on a tank turret to mount both systems.
Or just use the trailer version of Aselsan ŞAHIN and drag it behind the tank, lol.

This circled back to the swarm UGV Tank concept I and some other guys brainstormed earlier.

It's basically a command vehicle (or multiple), controlling multiple other fire support assets. Lightweight UGVs with maybe 105mm cannons and hybrid engines networked to the command vehicle do the tank things. Maybe some other vehicles do anti-air duty. Some other vehicles may stand by for indirect fire support. There will also be UAVs for recon and damage assassment.

I honestly think this concept will be the future of the tanks. Because losing tanks can be tolerable, and it will be even expected, as situational awareness is very high and aything that takes out a UGV tank will be swiftly punished.