TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Combat-Master]

Better late then half baked.

It's like a broken record from constant agenda pushers...

Altay Vanilla which is operationally no different to the Leopard 2A4

Altay T1, fully equipped.

 

[GoatsMilk]

I just hope when all is said and done this "altay episode" isnt talked about internationally jokingly as the indian Arjun tank is. Altay has already garnered the reputation for a failing project, lets hope it doesn't turn into a global joke about the Turkish defence industry.

 

[Ryder]

Honestly BF2042 is coming out.

We need the Altay tank honestly really sick of the Abrams and the T90 give me some new tanks like the Altay, Challenger, Leopard and the Leclerc

I want it in Battlefield not gay ass war thunder. Plus videogames are good exposure to the Turkish defence industry. I mean so many people knew about the JNG90 thanks to BF3 and BF4.

 

[Ryder]

I just hope when all is said and done this "altay episode" isnt talked about internationally jokingly as the indian Arjun tank is. Altay has already garnered the reputation for a failing project, lets hope it doesn't turn into a global joke about the Turkish defence industry.

Arjun tank banter led to Red effect a serbian guy clashing with a Indian defence youtuber

 

[Philips]

Altay has already garnered the reputation for a failing project, lets hope it doesn't turn into a global joke about the Turkish defence industry.

It is not, but it would be if plain vanilla Altays were sent into Syria instead of the Leopard 2. It would've made no difference at all expect for Turkey to become the 'global joke' to have the newest MBT in the world being blown up by ATGM's from the previous century.

 

[Ryder]

Syria is a atgm nightmare.

Isis, ypg, pkk and other groups use atgms to target infantry. They use atgms to target anything not just tanks.

Its a nightmare for a tanker.

 

[GoatsMilk]

It is not, but it would be if plain vanilla Altays were sent into Syria instead of the Leopard 2. It would've made no difference at all expect for Turkey to become the 'global joke' to have the newest MBT in the world being blown up by ATGM's from the previous century.

Neither here or there. The truth is the project has been delayed and corrupted by scandalous politicians and so called "business men". Tank should have been rolling years ago, at this rate we may never see it.

The Arjun failure tainted the entire Indian defence industry. It created an image of incompetence, incapability and failure for India. This Altay tank could end up having a similar effect.

 

[Masesebe]

Syria is a atgm nightmare.

Isis, ypg, pkk and other groups use atgms to target infantry. They use atgms to target anything not just tanks.

Its a nightmare for a tanker.

If you dont trust in the turkish defence its your problem , we already saw the leopard tank destroyed and became fire ball yes thats true , thats germany problem and all the world started to talk about germany poor tanks and new generation leopards will do the same , maybe a little bit better but not game changing , because of that germany went to israel and started a project to add israeli troohy system , why because its combat proven , yes the images of leopard tank with trophy system is weird , bulky and ugly but it will do the job .
Why most of countries placed trophy active system because the same results of the same battlefield .
Turkish sabra tank did amazing in the war in syria , its 1960 tank with israeli armored package and did better than the abrams and leopard and other tank in syria . A lot of sabra tanks got hit with atgm and the crew survived and thats only because the good quality and heavy armored package .
Because of that turkish roketsan upgrade for leopard tank will be a great solution foe syria war and lets say we add akkor active system it will be the best choice for urban war like syria .
So turkey know that altay tank is not coming now it will take about two years to roll out and thre years to be with a domestic powerpack so they upgraded the m60 sabra tp m60tm tank and leopard to leoprad with akkor or pulat active and also roketsan armor package , and thays great imagine a whole fleet of these tank it will be enough not only for syria even for other battlefields .
Altay is for bigger warfares its even not a good idea to send it to turkey only for certain operations because why send a new tank to syria when you have a great tank that suits the battleground like m60tm and turkish upgraded leoprad two .
Also now with the new project of asselsan developing new small version of akkor system you can add these to the new infantry fighting vehicles and that would be enough with the help of uavs like bayraktar tb2 anka tb3 .
Altay will be a great tank . And maybe the third or fourth patch will be with unmanned turret .
I hope that the project will be complete and all the countries that tried hard to fail this projects will start to bite their fingers because now countries will have other solutions than the german mtu engines .
Best luck for turkey

 

[Masesebe]

Neither here or there. The truth is the project has been delayed and corrupted by scandalous politicians and so called "business men". Tank should have been rolling years ago, at this rate we may never see it.

The Arjun failure tainted the entire Indian defence industry. It created an image of incompetence, incapability and failure for India. This Altay tank could end up having a similar effect.

You cant produce a tank without powerpacks .
It was a mistake and turkey should learn of that lesson .
Every country can build a tank but they cant build the powerpack to bring life to the iron .
We went through this subject over and over in this forum , we should just stop wasting time and focus on the near future .
With powerpacks like batu and utku which is the hardest to produce since you have limited space to put them in tank .
That will allow turkey to enter the war of machines and start to build excavator bulldozer heavy duty machines and with high quality low price it will take a huge share of the world trade like komatsu and other companies

 

[Abdelaziz]

You cant produce a tank without powerpacks .
It was a mistake and turkey should learn of that lesson .
Every country can build a tank but they cant build the powerpack to bring life to the iron .
We went through this subject over and over in this forum , we should just stop wasting time and focus on the near future .
With powerpacks like batu and utku which is the hardest to produce since you have limited space to put them in tank .
That will allow turkey to enter the war of machines and start to build excavator bulldozer heavy duty machines and with high quality low price it will take a huge share of the world trade like komatsu and other companies

No..Not any country can produce a tank ..every system is a challenge it self ... The armours package ..the special steel .. the barrel ..the e/o systems .. the fire control ..the design ..the ammo .. the turret.. the active protection system if it will be used .. and many other .. the power pack of course is a very challenging part ..but not all tank producing countries can produce the power packs for example israel ... It produces one of the best tanks world wide ..but they use german MTU

 

[Masesebe]

No..Not any country can produce a tank ..every system is a challenge it self ... The armours package ..the special steel .. the barrel ..the e/o systems .. the fire control ..the design ..the ammo .. the turret.. the active protection system if it will be used .. and many other .. the power pack of course is a very challenging part ..but not all tank producing countries can produce the power packs for example israel ... It produces one of the best tanks world wide ..but they use german MTU

You didnt get my point , i was referring that every country can build a tank even if its bad and lack technology but the heart of the tank the engine and transmission and only five countries in the world cannproduce powerpacks for tanks , there are more countries building fighter jets than of powerpacks .
Israel merkava will be a great bunker more that a tank without mtu powerpack .

 

[Masesebe]

Had it not been delayed for corrupt reasons (BMC, hate of Koc) and had it not been for poor politics from AK party (syrian fiasco) not occurred, meaning no silly sanctions, we would have used a german engine until we made our own engine. Just like we used a ukrainian engine on the TB2 until we made our own, or like we used a canadian engine on the Attack helipcopter T-129, until we made our own.

If we attempted to become indeignious only once we made everything ourselves we would never have come this far.

What are you people finding hard to grasp over this Altay Scandal? Why are people terrified of calling a spade a spade?

Look man its idef 2021 i dont want tp start the whole thing over again .
Altay is coming soon , yes the first altay tank will roll out in 2023 but for me the true altay is the one with the batu powerpack , no one hate otokar and "koc" , if you look back otokar products were used widely by the turkish army qnd even now we can see cobra 2 doing amazing .
The tank engine embargo was done because the mighty altay tank that can eat challenger 2 tabk for breakfeast and leopard 2a7 , abrahms and other tanks for lunch .
The modern turkish army is not what it was back then .
Now the turkish army knows that without domestic products it will not be free from the control if western and other countries that endanger turkey everyday and supporting terrorist group like pkk to hurt turkey .
Idef 2021 and turkey after 2023 will shock the world .
I read few days ago replys mocking mke and now in idef we see mke products that will make new steps in naval products and will expand turkish arsenal and can export these products to other contries .
I respect every defence company , but with my all respect to otokar if you dont consider ssb requirment and focus more on export products than ssb then this is the least ssb can do by not accepting their products , not because they are poor quality , no otokar products are good quality but the problem is it cant help turkey independent and making it harder to make even small step to protect turkey from their enemies .
So please stop doing these kind of arguement . We dont know everything , ssb knows the best qnd the government is doing great job if you dont like the government you can vote against it in 2023 .
Now lets just have fun seeing turkey shocking the world with its new products at idef 2021 .
Have fun you all

 

[TheInsider]

So true Atak is the one with TS-1400. True Akıncı will not exist as there is no Turkish engine alternative. By that logic, we would have no Atak choppers by now similar to Altay tank and still waiting for TS-1400 to become operational. And we would have no Akıncı ever. True Milgem also doesn't exist. Let's wait until we have Turkish engines for Milgem.

We are embargoed because we delayed Altay for no reason. We should have signed a deal with Germany in 2016. We should have procured early F-35 models rather than waiting for block 4.

 

[Mustafa27]

The same argument as always, can we ban this discussion from this thread, it offers nothing to this thread and it has been done countless times.

 

[Masesebe]

So true Atak is the one with TS-1400. True Akıncı will not exist as there is no Turkish engine alternative. By that logic, we would have no Atak choppers by now similar to Altay tank and still waiting for TS-1400 to become operational. And we would have no Akıncı ever. True Milgem also doesn't exist. Let's wait until we have Turkish engines for Milgem.

We are embargoed because we delayed Altay for no reason. We should have signed a deal with Germany in 2016. We should have procured early F-35 models rather than waiting for block 4.

When it comes to atak helicopter we already saw that when turkey tried to export the helicopter to pakistan the usa ingonered the deal and turkey , dont jump and tell me that the deal got stopped because of pakistan , no , and atak helicopter cant expand and take part of the helicopter export market with engine , now , about the engine , if united states embargo the the engine there are other solutions so they will not risk the money but mtu doesn't have replacement , and according to the altay structure you cant accept other engine that differs pf mtu engine , but untill now , now korea made a close engine to mtu and now germany will know that they wasted an ally and wasted a good deal , yes they hurt turkey but made it stronger and soon batu will be mass produced and it will battle with mtu engines , countries now will test other engines like batu instead of selecting mtu without thinking twice .
And also about milgem and other naval engines , there also other reppacement but countries thay produce these engines cant afford wasting the deal , even a child knows that , but just to let you know sooner or later they will embargo everything , and if turkey doesnt act it will end up like iran .
And right now there are more than one company the developing marine engines . These engines will be easier than batu and utku to produce .
And also another mark is why bother to develope jet engine for tfx while there are a lot of other engines , because turkey knows that there is a red line when you cross it then you will be alone , so you should think about that time and you should be ready , turkey played it wise with selecting GE ENGINES FOR TFX FOR THE FIRST PHASE BECAUSE THEY have mutual benefits with tei and turkey but that can change in second , also akinci , now ukraine and turkey are close friends and turkey and ukraine can rely on each other , but in the same time turkey is developing engines for akinci , like pd222st tei engine that will power akinci .
I can give you examples for everything .
And once again bmc is important , and people criticizing it for partnering with qatar , qatar in my opinion is the best ally for turkey , the government should now go in public and explain evwrything for you and for me to make us feel better .
We can see think and foresee things , qatar is a great Partnership .
Like everytime , the time will show us , soon we will see the results , i know that you will keep throwing things at me and i will keep throwing things at you , but thats it , there is no good doing that , i will sit and watch and wait to the results

 

[GoatsMilk]

When it comes to atak helicopter we already saw that when turkey tried to export the helicopter to pakistan the usa ingonered the deal and turkey , dont jump and tell me that the deal got stopped because of pakistan , no , and atak helicopter cant expand and take part of the helicopter export market with engine , now , about the engine , if united states embargo the the engine there are other solutions so they will not risk the money but mtu doesn't have replacement , and according to the altay structure you cant accept other engine that differs pf mtu engine , but untill now , now korea made a close engine to mtu and now germany will know that they wasted an ally and wasted a good deal , yes they hurt turkey but made it stronger and soon batu will be mass produced and it will battle with mtu engines , countries now will test other engines like batu instead of selecting mtu without thinking twice .
And also about milgem and other naval engines , there also other reppacement but countries thay produce these engines cant afford wasting the deal , even a child knows that , but just to let you know sooner or later they will embargo everything , and if turkey doesnt act it will end up like iran .
And right now there are more than one company the developing marine engines . These engines will be easier than batu and utku to produce .
And also another mark is why bother to develope jet engine for tfx while there are a lot of other engines , because turkey knows that there is a red line when you cross it then you will be alone , so you should think about that time and you should be ready , turkey played it wise with selecting GE ENGINES FOR TFX FOR THE FIRST PHASE BECAUSE THEY have mutual benefits with tei and turkey but that can change in second , also akinci , now ukraine and turkey are close friends and turkey and ukraine can rely on each other , but in the same time turkey is developing engines for akinci , like pd222st tei engine that will power akinci .
I can give you examples for everything .
And once again bmc is important , and people criticizing it for partnering with qatar , qatar in my opinion is the best ally for turkey , the government should now go in public and explain evwrything for you and for me to make us feel better .
We can see think and foresee things , qatar is a great Partnership .
Like everytime , the time will show us , soon we will see the results , i know that you will keep throwing things at me and i will keep throwing things at you , but thats it , there is no good doing that , i will sit and watch and wait to the results

swings and roundabouts.

 

[Era_shield]

Had it not been delayed for corrupt reasons (BMC, hate of Koc) and had it not been for poor politics from AK party (syrian fiasco) not occurred, meaning no silly sanctions, we would have used a german engine until we made our own engine.

Stop polluting this thread with political garbage. I'm sick of opening this thread and reading the same nonsense over and over again for the past 3 months.

 

[Nutuk]

Altay project is unfortunately a big fiasco, denying does not change it.

We started a great project like a German, but ended (not even ended) it like Turks

 

[GoatsMilk]

Altay project is unfortunately a big fiasco, denying does not change it.

We started a great project like a German, but ended (not even ended) it like Turks

Its clearly turned into a massive fiasco. How people can deny this is hilarious. Like i say i just hope it doesnt turn into Arjun levels of fiasco, because it will have a detrimental effect on the international image of the Turkish defence industry which has only grown since all the drone warfare victories .

 

[Masesebe]

Altay project is unfortunately a big fiasco, denying does not change it.

We started a great project like a German, but ended (not even ended) it like Turks

I am not a turk , but according to you flag of nation you are , and you can look at history and see that everyone that make fun of his own nation is the one that make his nation weaker , i dont want to give you a harder example .
I will reply to you in 2024 and you will see that it will end up like a turk , that mean it will be a great way .
German quality , maybe twenty years ago because we dont see new products from germany , even the german defence is shouting loud that the defence industry and the german army is lacking a lot of things and if they keep up like that they will end up in a bad way