TR Anka-III ¦ Kızılelma ¦ TB-3 | UAV/UCAV Programs

Combat-Master

Baklava Consumer
Moderator
Messages
3,667
Reactions
15 25,443
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey

Haluk Bayraktar tells about the birth of Bayraktar TB-2. (initial tender process)

We participated in the test flight with the TB-2 in Sinop. I was in the military. I went for the flight. We have completed the goals. The plane landed automatically. During the record, the observer soldier said, "I don't believe it landed automatically". He wanted to have me arrested. 3 months later, that soldier started working at Vestel.

Glad that man no longer works at Vestel.
 

Rooxbar

Committed member
Messages
156
Reactions
4 422
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
The Bayraktar brothers answer questions regarding Kızılelma, what the first flight of a first prototype means, its capabilities and how it compares to an F-16 or even F-35 in an unfortunately disingenuous and exaggeratory ways to appeal to laypeople. They have also created this perception against MMU in the minds of a portion of the populace that manned fighters are already obsolete and only Kızılelma will save our country because of AI superiority (pioneers of AI sector said in 70s, that by 90s AI will be smarter than people, here we are in 2023 and we don't still have an AI that can walk properly), despite the level of engineering and subsystems and technological achievement and the challenge that MMU represents being like 20x of that of Kızılelma. They should skip this populist game and stick to realities, realities are big enough achievements which should not be tainted by populist exaggerations.
 

Combat-Master

Baklava Consumer
Moderator
Messages
3,667
Reactions
15 25,443
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
The Bayraktar brothers answer questions regarding Kızılelma, what the first flight of a first prototype means, its capabilities and how it compares to an F-16 or even F-35 in an unfortunately disingenuous and exaggeratory ways to appeal to laypeople. They have also created this perception against MMU in the minds of a portion of the populace that manned fighters are already obsolete and only Kızılelma will save our country because of AI superiority (pioneers of AI sector said in 70s, that by 90s AI will be smarter than people, here we are in 2023 and we don't still have an AI that can walk properly), despite the level of engineering and subsystems and technological achievement and the challenge that MMU represents being like 20x of that of Kızılelma. They should skip this populist game and stick to realities, realities are big enough achievements which should not be tainted by populist exaggerations.

MMU is being designed to eventually remove the pilot element, Temel Kotil even says so in his interviews.
 

Rooxbar

Committed member
Messages
156
Reactions
4 422
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
MMU is being designed to eventually remove the pilot element, Temel Kotil even says so in his interviews.
Yeah well, Elon Musk is going to be on Mars back in 2021. As someone who is very well-acquainted with the history of AI and its nature, I'm very skeptical of claims on General AI. But limited AI assistance already happens in 4.5, 5th gen fighters and ground control is something planned for all 6th projects. But the pilot, and human decision making with full contextual awareness inside the plane is crucial for the foreseeable future as wingman concepts will need a central command structure.
 

Rooxbar

Committed member
Messages
156
Reactions
4 422
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
Don't wanna get too political but as it pertains to Bayraktar, I just want to add that what Babacan said about competition and government's equal treatment of defense companies is pure bs btw; it's just a very naive laissez faire way of looking at the world. Big technological companies are experience-based and after a certain amount of years pass and they become bigger than a critical point with a substantial amount of workers, they become indispensable as an strategic asset; you don't go and give the same treatment to it compared to a no-name company.
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
3,657
Reactions
3 6,100
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Fighters use a fraction of the capabilities of general AI so it is perfectly doable to rely on it for fighters. Not only that but also the advantages of being expandable make UCAVs atractive. No pilot training, all planes are trained to fight equally well. This means a smaller power can do a bigger job. When AI is involved you never know what the reality of a fighter jets capabilities is. Simulations say AI wins.
 

zio

Committed member
Messages
193
Reactions
265
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I am support the baykar firm and aware what happened on the process of TB2,but there are something goes wrong,these firm and other instutions never said about price of TB2 in domestic ,they did not open public for their earnings years to come.And we ordinary people wonder why?.
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
3,657
Reactions
3 6,100
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I am support the baykar firm and aware what happened on the process of TB2,but there are something goes wrong,these firm and other instutions never said about price of TB2 in domestic ,they did not open public for their earnings years to come.And we ordinary people wonder why?.
Why would anyone open their company secrets to anyone else other than the tax department.
 

zio

Committed member
Messages
193
Reactions
265
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I was following SSM web page that there was two project at the beginning one is catapult uav the other is classic.Vestel won the catapult uavs project but they did not make it,but classic one.It was a mistake.
 
Last edited:

Hasanrize

Committed member
Messages
171
Reactions
437
Nation of residence
Finland
Nation of origin
Turkey
I am support the baykar firm and aware what happened on the process of TB2,but there are something goes wrong,these firm and other instutions never said about price of TB2 in domestic ,they did not open public for their earnings years to come.And we ordinary people wonder why?.
Because they don't have to, making the price public will encourage foreign customers to negotiate more. Also, it is not a public company, so there is no obligation to share.

99 percent of companies opens their earnings,it would not be a secret.When someone ask about the price of uavs,they are saying that its cheaper than heron.means nothing.
It means nothing to you, not to the countries they sell to.

Also, how many high-end defense products you saw have a fixed price tag? Think of globally, F-35, F-16, Rafale, etc. They all have price ranges affected by plenty of things, such as strategic partnership, size of purchase, tech transfers, possible locally produced parts, etc. Also, the range sometimes starts from free of charge.
 

zio

Committed member
Messages
193
Reactions
265
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey

Attachments

  • E950EE9D-B9A4-4729-9EC6-FC78E80170AD.jpeg
    E950EE9D-B9A4-4729-9EC6-FC78E80170AD.jpeg
    836.1 KB · Views: 73

Era_shield

Contributor
Messages
786
Reactions
3 2,588
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Yeah well, Elon Musk is going to be on Mars back in 2021. As someone who is very well-acquainted with the history of AI and its nature, I'm very skeptical of claims on General AI. But limited AI assistance already happens in 4.5, 5th gen fighters and ground control is something planned for all 6th projects. But the pilot, and human decision making with full contextual awareness inside the plane is crucial for the foreseeable future as wingman concepts will need a central command structure.
I agree for General AI but piloting doesn't require GAI, it's more of an expert system, and now they've trained them to the point that they can beat expert pilots in a dogfight. Of course, there's more to being a jet pilot than just dog-fighting, but we're a lot closer to an AI-based jet pilot that can beat any human than we are to a GAI that's more intelligent than a human.
 

Maedhros

Member
Messages
15
Reactions
1 41
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I agree with what @zio said. If some arrows are directed at you through your economic relations with the state, the best thing to do is to be transparent and explain the data at hand. It is not a nice approach to slander other companies by going on a news channel.
 

Pilatino

Well-known member
Messages
303
Reactions
1 616
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I agree for General AI but piloting doesn't require GAI, it's more of an expert system, and now they've trained them to the point that they can beat expert pilots in a dogfight. Of course, there's more to being a jet pilot than just dog-fighting, but we're a lot closer to an AI-based jet pilot that can beat any human than we are to a GAI that's more intelligent than a human.

In PC games if developer wants it's impossible to defeat AI. I think it's not that hard to apply the similar codes to a real thing. Moreover in the real life there are much more potential because of machine learning and big data processing abilities. Most of the people says that we have 10+ years to see AI is actively fighting in the war theater but I disagree that idea. Baykar and Selçuk thinks like me too I guess that's why he's working on it. I'm very optimistic about the results. We are so lucky that someone is trying to be pioneer in this field in Türkiye.

P.S. call me an idiot if you want but in the future there won't be any place for humans in air warfare due to the limits of humans. Pilots faints after s certain G force but when there's no human in it the plane can do miracles like breaking AA missile locks by doing extraordinary turns.

P.S.2 you can call me crazy now I don't care :) In long term, humans are condemned to kneel to robots. Future will be theirs not us thanks to our greed and curiosity.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom