Arab Military & Culture

Philip the Arab

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The Arabs and Persians are the scientists and religious scholars while the Turks are the soldiers and warriors.
Arabs used to be good warriors but modern technology moved too fast for the military culture to adapt especially nowadays.
 

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If you blame another country for your owns misfortune, over 100 years after its gone, maybe you should think twice.
 

GoatsMilk

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Arabs used to be good warriors but modern technology moved too fast for the military culture to adapt especially nowadays.

500 years ago there was letters between Sultan Sulieman and Turgut Reis. Turgut was pleading with Sulieman not to send him any more Arab soldiers since they were incapable of fighting modern warfare. He mentioned how they lacked discipline, lacked technical ability and were quick to break their lines in the face of any adversity. That the Arab soldiers were more of a danger then a benefit to the Ottoman forces.
 

Philip the Arab

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500 years ago there was letters between Sultan Sulieman and Turgut Reis. Turgut was pleading with Sulieman not to send him any more Arab soldiers since they were incapable of fighting modern warfare. He mentioned how they lacked discipline, lacked technical ability and were quick to break their lines in the face of any adversity. That the Arab soldiers were more of a danger then a benefit to the Ottoman forces.
Arab soldiers were great during the first few caliphates but sucked later on, don't know what happened.

I suppose there are a lot of factors at play considering both Byzantines and Persians were very weak during their rise it was easy for them to expand effortlessly.
 

GoatsMilk

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Not just eradicate the Faith but a lot of the peoples that live in the Middle East to be honest.

When you look at colonialism especially in the Americas and Australia the natives there got wiped out pretty much.

Europeans are really pissed off at Turks because they could not do their eradication on lesser races. Not to mention we reached the gates of Vienna also landing on Iceland with the use of Barbary Corsairs.

In fact the Turks took European slaves. You cannot imagine how this shatters their arrogance of the superior race when superior race got enslaved by a lesser one.

Thats why us Turks out of all Muslims are the most hated ones. You have to see the quotes from the British, French, Germans, Russians you name it we were singled out. Americans like Mark Twain engaged in Turcophobia he literally wanted Russia to annilate us. This Nazi thinking man has roads and libaries named after him imagine my shock

reminds me of Darwin, his thoeries taught in every school to children, a man who wished the total extermination of the Turkish race.

“I could show fight on natural selection having done and doing more for the progress of civilisation than you seem inclined to admit. Remember what risk the nations of Europe ran, not so many centuries ago of being overwhelmed by the Turks, and how ridiculous such an idea now is!

The more civilised so-called Caucasian races have beaten the Turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking to the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of the lower races will have been eliminated by the higher civilised races throughout the world.
” (“The Life and Letters of Charles Darwin”, by Francis Darwin, Vol.I, 1888. New York D. Appleton and Company, pp.285-286)

This mindset still exists within the halls of power, Turks must awaken.

"However, some European countries exposed to the influence of this vile propaganda embarked on actions intended to destroy the Turkish Nation, and the end of the Ottoman Empire was the product of that deviant mindset. It must not be forgotten that this wild mindset is still around in some communities today. Therefore, it is essential to be aware of and recognize this sinister aspect of Darwinism if the dark plans of Darwinists and materialists, who claim that “the destruction of the Turkish Nation is a requirement of the law of nature and will contribute to the progress of civilization,” are to be thwarted. Every Turk who loves his nation and homeland has a responsibility to oppose Darwinism, to reject this racist ideology and to do all in his power to expose its falsity."

This mindset presents itself among the racist who justify their global crimes because of "advancements" they claim to have brought. When you hear a racist justifying his hate and actions because of "advancements" he personally had no hand in, beware of what you are dealing with.
 
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GoatsMilk

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Actually we will be more happy if you convert back to your Byzantine roots or tengrism when Anatolia was a Byzantine it was a great civilization if your sultans converted to Catholicism you wouldn’t miss the renaissance and the enlightenment or the industrial revolution but I think your sultans refused because Christianity didn’t allow sex slaves or multiple wives which the sultans and caliphs didn’t like.

so bitter.

Be grateful the enlightened people you speak of who still had human zoos up until the 1970's didnt put your ancestors in one.


Not to mention the forced sterilisation projects that were going on the western world.

 

Ardabas34

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Arab soldiers were great during the first few caliphates but sucked later on, don't know what happened.

I suppose there are a lot of factors at play considering both Byzantines and Persians were very weak during their rise it was easy for them to expand effortlessly.

Actually I have thought a lot on this.
When did the nation of Khalid ibn Al Walid and Tariq bin Ziyad lost it?

The answer is: 718. Failed Siege of Constantinople and the catastrophe of Anatolia that followed it.
There, Arabs lost all their military doctrines, experienced soldiers, 100.000 troops.

Western historians being the Eurocentrists they are for years, in fact for centuries counted battle of Tours as the decisive battle.
Battle of Tours was nothing. It was a simple conflict between Andalus Ummayads and Franks when the Andalus Arab army was returning from a raid. It was insignificant.

The overambitious conquest attempt of Constantinople doomed the Ummayads. Bulgars, who were still a Turkic people back then, were recent converts to Christianity and they allied with Byzantines and boy, they just annihiliated the part of Ummayad army that made it to the other side of Bosphorus. Siege forces were defeated so badly that the army in Anatolia never expected a Byzantine counter attack and it completely wiped out an entire army in the most catastrophic way.

Over this in a short while, Ummayad Caliphate shattered and Abbasids took over but Abbasids were never as militarily successful as Ummayads. In 9th century Al Mu'tasim started the practice of enslaving Tengrist Turks and converting them to Islam and raising them as elite soldiers. This was a successful way of asserting loyalty but later on these soldiers felt too strong and started founding their own empires all over the islamic world: Ghaznavids, Delhi Sultanate, Ikhshidis, Mamluk Sultanate, Khwarezmian Empire, Tolounids...

Seljuk Turks were different however. They were more like subcontractors. They came from outside as a group and converted to Islam on their own and took the opportunity of weakened Baghdad Caliph and with the legitimacy he gave, they fought against Shia powers like Buyids and Fatimids.

In fact, if not for the Turks, Shia Islam was going to be the mainstream islam on Earth, at least politically. Turks changed the tide of the battle.

Anyway, starting with the previous ghulam/mamluk states and then with Seljuks; Turks completely took over the military of islamic world for the next millenia. From Egypt to India, from Anatolia to Transoxiana.
 

GoatsMilk

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Actually I have thought a lot on this.
When did the nation of Khalid ibn Al Walid and Tariq bin Ziyad lost it?

The answer is: 718. Failed Siege of Constantinople and the catastrophe of Anatolia that followed it.
There, Arabs lost all their military doctrines, experienced soldiers, 100.000 troops.

Western historians being the Eurocentrists they are for years, in fact for centuries counted battle of Tours as the decisive battle.
Battle of Tours was nothing. It was a simple conflict between Andalus Ummayads and Franks when the Andalus Arab army was returning from a raid. It was insignificant.

The overambitious conquest attempt of Constantinople doomed the Ummayads. Bulgars, who were still a Turkic people back then, were recent converts to Christianity and they allied with Byzantines and boy, they just annihiliated the part of Ummayad army that made it to the other side of Bosphorus. Siege forces were defeated so badly that the army in Anatolia never expected a Byzantine counter attack and it completely wiped out an entire army in the most catastrophic way.

Over this in a short while, Ummayad Caliphate shattered and Abbasids took over but Abbasids were never as militarily successful as Ummayads. In 9th century Al Mu'tasim started the practice of enslaving Tengrist Turks and converting them to Islam and raising them as elite soldiers. This was a successful way of asserting loyalty but later on these soldiers felt too strong and started founding their own empires all over the islamic world: Ghaznavids, Delhi Sultanate, Ikhshidis, Mamluk Sultanate, Khwarezmian Empire, Tolounids...

Seljuk Turks were different however. They were more like subcontractors. They came from outside as a group and converted to Islam on their own and took the opportunity of weakened Baghdad Caliph and with the legitimacy he gave, they fought against Shia powers like Buyids and Fatimids.

In fact, if not for the Turks, Shia Islam was going to be the mainstream islam on Earth, at least politically. Turks changed the tide of the battle.

Anyway, starting with the previous ghulam/mamluk states and then with Seljuks; Turks completely took over the military of islamic world for the next millenia. From Egypt to India, from Anatolia to Transoxiana.

I was actually thinking of the Christian Bulgar Turks who laid waste to the Arab army during the siege. Just shows what would have happened to Islam had the Turks become Christian.
 

Philip the Arab

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I was actually thinking of the Christian Bulgar Turks who laid waste to the Arab army during the siege. Just shows what would have happened to Islam had the Turks become Christian.
Meh, all humans are going to be gone probably within the next few thousand years so it all is irrelevant in the long run.

Maybe we can return to monke to save earth?
 

Philip the Arab

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so bitter.

Be grateful the enlightened people you speak of who still had human zoos up until the 1970's didnt put your ancestors in one.


Not to mention the forced sterilisation projects that were going on the western world.

Westerners only did that to Blacks and Islanders afaik for a variety of reasons.

They definitely had access to North Africans and the Middle East by the 1900s but were not intrigued by them.
 
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kimov

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Arab soldiers were great during the first few caliphates but sucked later on, don't know what happened.

The same thing happened back then as what you can see right now.

Tribalism, where Arabs rather give away their land to westerners than help fellow Arabs in need. Just look how gulf states and Egypt behave right now when they completely abandon Philistines just to be on the good side with Trump and Israel by giving them everything they want and a ton of money to boot with. This tribalism can be seen all over Arabic societies and in Arab armies where higher officers are from a one tribe. This tribalism create a very corrupt, incompetent and unstable foundation for a society where the biggest enemy becomes other fellow Arabs. Syria, Iraq, Libya, Sudan, Egypt and Yemen comes to mind from the last 15y where this tribalism has completely destroyed their own countries with the help of western countries.

Keep in mind this was also the common behavior even before Islam, which is exactly the culture that Mohammad tried to change by unifying them.
 

Philip the Arab

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The same thing happened back then as what you can see right now.

Tribalism, where Arabs rather give away their land to westerners than help fellow Arabs in need. Just look how gulf states and Egypt behave right now when they completely abandon Philistines just to be on the good side with Trump and Israel by giving them everything they want and a ton of money to boot with. This tribalism can be seen all over Arabic societies and in Arab armies where higher officers are from a one tribe. This tribalism create a very corrupt, incompetent and unstable foundation for a society where the biggest enemy becomes other fellow Arabs. Syria, Iraq, Libya, Sudan, Egypt and Yemen comes to mind from the last 15y where this tribalism has completely destroyed their own countries with the help of western countries.

Keep in mind this was also the common behavior even before Islam, which is exactly the culture that Mohammad tried to change by unifying them.
Its impossible to fix the situation unless they go through a cultural revolution akin to China's.

Maybe if that happened a hundred years ago but now its impossible.
 

Ryder

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Arab soldiers were great during the first few caliphates but sucked later on, don't know what happened.

I suppose there are a lot of factors at play considering both Byzantines and Persians were very weak during their rise it was easy for them to expand effortlessly.

A lot of factors in the decline of the Arabs and their fighting abilities after the Caliphates collapsed just went worse from there.

I think a lot of the Arabs gave up on fighting allowed other Non Arab Muslims to fight for them.

Arabs are pretty good at fighting unconventional wars but melt away pretty badly when it comes to conventional wars even with good weapons and tech they still melt away.
 

Philip the Arab

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Arabs are pretty good at fighting unconventional wars but melt away pretty badly when it comes to conventional wars even with good weapons and tech they still melt away.
To be fair, there haven't been any winnable conventional wars that Arab countries have been involved in the last past thirty years. Israeli wars were a big failure, but the force structure of Egypt, and Syria were terrible and based off the Soviet doctrine that they couldn't effectively execute.

I guess we'll see if countries like the UAE with vast Western training , and technology can actually fight a conventional war in the next twenty years. According to some Pakistanis on PDF with connections to UAEAF instructors the younger UAE pilots actually had more skills in certain areas than Pakistanis.

Believe it or not, a UAE Mirage-2000 actually scored a gun kill on a F-22 10 or 15 years ago.
 
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GoatsMilk

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The same thing happened back then as what you can see right now.

Tribalism, where Arabs rather give away their land to westerners than help fellow Arabs in need. Just look how gulf states and Egypt behave right now when they completely abandon Philistines just to be on the good side with Trump and Israel by giving them everything they want and a ton of money to boot with. This tribalism can be seen all over Arabic societies and in Arab armies where higher officers are from a one tribe. This tribalism create a very corrupt, incompetent and unstable foundation for a society where the biggest enemy becomes other fellow Arabs. Syria, Iraq, Libya, Sudan, Egypt and Yemen comes to mind from the last 15y where this tribalism has completely destroyed their own countries with the help of western countries.

Keep in mind this was also the common behavior even before Islam, which is exactly the culture that Mohammad tried to change by unifying them.


Makes you wonder what position they would be in if no oil and gas revenues.
 

Philip the Arab

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Makes you wonder what position they would be in if no oil and gas revenues.
Well, the biggest problem is corruption and shitty leadership. Leadership was based off of loyalty, when it should have been based off merit.

If the East Germans or even the Soviets were in charge of the Egyptian, and Syrian armies from the lowest to highest positions I can guarantee you they would have performed 100x better than their abysmal performance during the Arab-Israeli wars.


Egypt and Syria have little oil and gas revenues compared to the GCC so that argument is irrelevant.
 
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