Live Conflict Azerbaijan and Armenia clash over Nagorno-Karabakh region Updates & Discussion

contricusc

Committed member
Messages
294
Reactions
1 408
Nation of residence
Panama
Nation of origin
Romania
Even in our life time we have watched the westerners/europeans ally with Russia against us. We saw this in Syria, we seen it in Libya. We also saw it in Azerbaijan where both Russia and the West were on Armenia's side.

In Libya the sides are very mixed up. The Western nations don’t have a unified position on Libya. Some Western nations are on the same side as Turkey (Italy for example). The sides are based on each country’s individual interests. There is no unified Western position.

As for Armenia, the West did absolutely nothing about it. Of course you will see some condemnations whenever a country uses military force to achieve something, but besides that, there was nothing.

There is a clear hierarchy in the west that sees the anglo-american establishment as supreme. Below her are nations like Germany and to a lessor extent France, below that are countries like Italy and Spain. Then the eastern europeans and balkans are below them. The Russians wanted to challenge the anglo american position and hence are in conflict. But when an outsider a non-white, non European nation like Turkiye enters the game they are united against her.

That hierarchy is not something agreed by anyone. That hierarchy is based on power dynamics, and it is always challenged by those in the lesser echelons. Why do you think the EU was created in the first place? It was a French-German plan to reverse the power dynamic in Europe. That’s why Britain has never been truly in the EU, and we had Brexit in the end. The EU wanted to reduce Britain’s influence in Europe.

Also, you have Eastern European countries trying to form their own alliances like the Visegrad Group, in order to increase their power in the EU.

And you also have the big losers of EU integration, like Italy, which was sold out by its leaders and has been ruined by EU policies that were meant to ruin it in favor of Germany.

This basically is not really any different then when the nordic-germanic aristocracy ruled the whole of europe. They will fight and kill each other, but when the Turk enters the game they collectively came together to oppose the outsider that threatened their entire structure.

This is nonsense. When Turkey invaded Northern Cyprus, it was the US that stopped Greece from intervening. If the entire Western world (including the US) was united against Turkey, you wouldn’t have gotten Northern Cyprus.

The reality is that the Western world is extremely divided, with the US being by far the major power player, and acting based on its own interests without any regard for the interests of individual European countries. Turkey is just another European country from the US perspective, which means it should be kept weak and isolated, while at the same time used against Russia. But this is how the US sees all European countries, not only Turkey.

Remember when the US sanctioned their “greatest ally” (Britain) during the Suez invasion? The US wanted to see Britain lose the Suez, in order to weaken it, despite being their “best ally”. They treated the UK in th same way they treat Turkey today. Allies on paper, but we want you to be weak and we work against you if you become too strong.

Now the difference today is we are meant to be allies, we are meant to be friends, we are not at war, yet everything outside of directly attacking us, is as if they see us as the enemy.

That’s how the US acts with any country that becomes too influential in its region. They want to have many allies, but for them to be weak enough to be unable to pose any challenge. They pit allies against each other because they don’t want to see a strong united Europe that could challenge their hegemony.

As for Europe, it is so divided that it can’t act with coherence and as a unified block. In every conflict, European countries are usually on both sides, or they don’t care.
 

Bogeyman 

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
7,848
Reactions
54 27,690
Website
twitter.com
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey

France agreed to sign a military agreement with Armenia. Expecting the equipment to arrive very soon to Yerevan. As we stated 3 months ago, Paris was already readying such agreements. From the information we have obtained private military instructors have already set foot in the country.
 

Ghost soldier

Хижак
Messages
1,389
Reactions
3 3,795
Nation of residence
Morocco
Nation of origin
Moroco
Least delusional Fr*nch

Screenshot_20231003_192520_X.jpg
 

Azeri441

Committed member
Messages
219
Reactions
2 1,038
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
Azerbaijan
Lol I really hope Armenians waste their budget on French weapons, those expensive weapon systems will eat up their budget, meanwhile we will need a single cheap drone to counter lol
 

Saithan

Experienced member
Denmark Correspondent
Messages
8,045
Reactions
18 18,504
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey

Deserted Nagorno-Karabakh reveals aftermath of lightning-fast Armenian defeat​

    • Published
      16 hours ago
Share
Related Topics
An Azerbaijani soldier stands at a retaken outpost overlooking the city of Khankendi, known as Stepanakert to Armenians, in the Nagorno-Karabakh region

Image caption,
An Azerbaijani soldier stands at a retaken outpost overlooking the city of Khankendi, known as Stepanakert to Armenians, in the Nagorno-Karabakh region
By Joel Gunter
in Nagorno-Karabakh

At an Armenian outpost high in the mountains of Nagorno-Karabakh, a half-full cooking pot sat next to a half-eaten plate of food. There was a half-smoked cigarette and half a bread roll.

At another, smaller outpost farther along the former frontline, an Armenian log book sat abandoned in the grass. Its final entry was a perfunctory note that read, "Everything is under control."

The remnants at these outposts on Tuesday testified to the speed with which the Armenians had lost control two weeks earlier, during a lightning-fast military operation by Azerbaijan. The Azerbaijani forces seized the breakaway region in less than 24 hours, three decades after a bloody conflict that had left it in the hands of the Armenians.

Some 200 Azerbaijani soldiers lost their lives in the battle and about 500 were wounded, according to officials. But virtually nothing is known about how, or where, so many Azerbaijani soldiers died in such a short span of time, and on a tightly-controlled media tour of the region on Tuesday Azerbaijani military representatives did not elaborate.

A soldier who was put up as a spokesman, but declined to give his name or rank, said the Azerbaijanis had retaken this stretch of frontline with a mixture of precision artillery strikes and infantry, battling against an irregular Armenian force in possession of an armoured vehicle and two tanks, who used snipers to fire from their elevated position at the Azerbaijanis.
A cup of tea and half-eaten bread roll sit in a bunker at an Armenian outpost retaken by Azerbaijan during its offensive

Image caption,
A cup of tea and half-eaten bread roll sit in a bunker at an Armenian outpost retaken by Azerbaijan during its offensive
Teams from the UN and Red Cross have been granted access to the regional capital, Khankendi, known by the Armenians as Stepanakert. But the BBC and other international media outlets were refused entry to the city, because the area is not yet secure, Azerbaijani officials said.

The few images that have emerged from Khankendi since the takeover show a ghost town, where possessions appear to have been abandoned in the streets as residents fled.

Nearly 120,000 Armenians, virtually the entire population, have now left Nagorno-Karabakh over the past two weeks. Along the Lachin corridor - the only route out of the region to Armenia - abandoned cars and possessions still litter the roadway, having broken down or run out of fuel in the miles-long queue to leave.

The Karabakh Armenians did not flee at gunpoint - there have been no confirmed reports of the exodus being prompted by the use of force against civilians.

"This was a limited, local, counter-terrorism action," Hikmet Hajiyev, foreign policy adviser to the Azerbaijani president, told the BBC. Azerbaijan "had only targeted legitimate military targets," he said, and avoided using heavy weapons like tanks in favour of light infantry.
Azerbaijan had also made it clear that they intended to peacefully reintegrate the civilian population, Hajiyev said, and the Karabakh Armenians who fled had "chosen freely" to leave.
Hikmet Hajiyev, foreign policy adviser to the president, in Baku on Tuesday. This was a crucial moment to act, he said

Image caption,
Hikmet Hajiyev, foreign policy adviser to the president, in Baku on Tuesday. "This was a crucial moment to act," he said
But Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan has accused the Azerbaijanis of ethnic cleansing, and others including the EU have condemned the Azerbaijani operation. For 10 months before its military action, Azerbaijan blockaded Nagorno-Karabakh, leaving the Armenian residents short of food, medicine and fuel.

And few have expressed surprise that the Karabakh Armenians would not want to be reintegrated into Azerbaijan, an autocratic state with which the Armenians have a long history of violent conflict.

"Ethnic cleansing does not need direct violence, just the threat of it," said Thomas de Waal, a senior fellow at Carnegie Europe and expert on the region.

"In this case, hundreds of Armenian soldiers were killed and the Azerbaijani army arrived and that was enough for the entire local population to flee," he said. "They didn't want to wait and see what would happen to them."

Ordinary civilians on both sides fled during every phase of the conflict in the 1990s as soon as opposing soldiers arrived, De Waal pointed out - driven by at least 100 years of distrust, even hatred, between the two populations. Azerbaijani children are taught in schools about a massacre carried out by the Armenians in 1993.
One of many abandoned cars that still litter the Lachin corridor - the only route out of Karabakh to Armenia

Image caption,
One of many abandoned cars that still litter the Lachin corridor - the only route out of Karabakh to Armenia
In the most recent clash, a 44-day war in 2020, about 7,000 military and 170 civilians were killed and many more wounded, ending in a Russian-brokered peace agreement that returned seven districts to Azerbaijan but left a key part of the region under Armenian control.

That clash was followed by a fervour of national celebration in Azerbaijan that was largely absent following the recent operation. Among the few fresh signs of a military clash, driving through the region this week, were the names of the military dead being read on local radio stations.

The recapture of the rest of Karabakh to Azerbaijani control was "more of a feeling of relief," said Zaur Mammadov, a telecoms engineer working in the city of Shusha. The 38-year-old had fled his home in Karabakh in 1993, at the age of nine, when the Armenians entered and pushed the Azerbaijanis out.

After the 2020 war, Mr Mammadov returned to his childhood home, which was still standing and had been inhabited by Armenian soldiers in the intervening years, he said. He is now hoping to purchase a nicer house in one of the new Azerbaijani settlements in the region.
"We waited 30 years for this moment," he said. "Now it is here."
Lala Aliyeva contributed to this report. Photographs by Joel Gunter.

 

Bogeyman 

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
7,848
Reactions
54 27,690
Website
twitter.com
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
According to information obtained from Azerbaijan's diplomatic sources, the Baku administration suggested and insisted that Turkey participate in the meeting to be held in Granada, Spain, with the participation of Armenia, the EU, France and Germany. However, the proposal was not accepted due to the special efforts of France and Germany. The Azerbaijani side also refused to attend the meeting.

 

guest12

Well-known member
Messages
404
Reactions
2 863
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
According to information obtained from Azerbaijan's diplomatic sources, the Baku administration suggested and insisted that Turkey participate in the meeting to be held in Granada, Spain, with the participation of Armenia, the EU, France and Germany. However, the proposal was not accepted due to the special efforts of France and Germany. The Azerbaijani side also refused to attend the meeting.

 

GoatsMilk

Experienced member
Messages
3,326
Reactions
9 8,721
Nation of residence
United Kingdom

And that's the reality of the EU, France and Germany pretty much decide and the rest are mostly vassals.

Its a bit like the PKK, If France and Germany support the PKK then the entire EU at a minimum wont be against it, many will actively support it.

If any nation tries to buck the trend like "hungary" they are demonised within the entire EU spectrum.
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom