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Fighter_35

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I urge everyone to watch this eye-opening interview. You'll be lost for words by the scandals he revealed.
Many people faced many things like this in the past!! Tusas also faced same things when they designed their UAV in the 1990s. So he is not special to Baykar. They should answer for the cases after Selçuk became damat! No one says they got so many support before becoming damat!!
So basically they try to not answer for the real questions but manipulate people's feelings with past events!!
So we can understand why vestel UAVs not purchased !! He also forgot to mention that this case took place when akp was in charge!!
 

Fighter_35

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A "Turk" that doesn't feel proud of Baykar's achievements or any defence company's for that matter, is of suspicious descent.
I followed Baykar at their first years, when working on Malazgirt Helo UAV, or their çaldıran first flight etc. Of course they faced so many challenges , there is even a news on newspaper about in in 2012, they were talking about that their UAV is not accepted , they faces many new requests etc. However , they are also the ones manipulating what Babacan said and instead of telling the truth about how much support they get after wedding, they try to manipulate people with past events!! People do not ask them how many challenges they faced !! People are asking whether you get additional support after becoming son in-law , or you get to this position totally by yourself!!
They should answer with all the supports they had,and they should close the case. But instead, they talk to much unrelated things.
And I don't believe Baykar since they were also mentioning that their locality is 93 percent long before they replace engine, and many important components including wescam.
 

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I followed Baykar at their first years, when working on Malazgirt Helo UAV, or their çaldıran first flight etc. Of course they faced so many challenges , there is even a news on newspaper about in in 2012, they were talking about that their UAV is not accepted , they faces many new requests etc. However , they are also the ones manipulating what Babacan said and instead of telling the truth about how much support they get after wedding, they try to manipulate people with past events!! People do not ask them how many challenges they faced !! People are asking whether you get additional support after becoming son in-law , or you get to this position totally by yourself!!
They should answer with all the supports they had,and they should close the case. But instead, they talk to much unrelated things.
And I don't believe Baykar since they were also mentioning that their locality is 93 percent long before they replace engine, and many important components including wescam.
Then you go ahead and tell us what these supports are so we can be better imformed.
 

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Many people faced many things like this in the past!! Tusas also faced same things when they designed their UAV in the 1990s. So he is not special to Baykar. They should answer for the cases after Selçuk became damat! No one says they got so many support before becoming damat!!
So basically they try to not answer for the real questions but manipulate people's feelings with past events!!
So we can understand why vestel UAVs not purchased !! He also forgot to mention that this case took place when akp was in charge!!


Selcuk married Erdogan daughter in 2016, before that was damat thing? First Turkish uav used in operation in 2014. In 2015 armed operations in Turkey and abroad, and still burning things down.



babacan is trying to win pkk voters and you people are loving it to smash Bayraktar (y) .
 
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Oublious

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Just off the top of my head the engine austrian rotex engine? British fuel pumps from Andair, Wescam optics, Germin GPS hardware, French Areo supplied brake fluid cannisters, other guidance systems from germany i think even the tires were from a British company.

I don't personally care that the guy used foreign components, what he did still requires brains and technical ability and we all know the best way to play this game is to make what you can now, buy what you need while running projects in the background to fill the gaps in. So we know today most of TB2 is domestically made. And when we look at the results, he not only helped turn Turkiye into a global drone producer but the overall brand of Turkiye rose with it. Its had a net positive effect on everything else we produce. So if you produce land vehicles, well the defence industry brand went up and now your products are more desirable as an example.

This doesn't even include how it helped us geopolitically in active combat. If we don't have that style of drone warfare could we have achieved what we achieved in syria or libya?

I also understand that Baykar is a business and its about making money and they need to sell the dream and i also suspect that had they been honest Turks would swing the other way and condemn the project saying its all foreign made.

But the point stands he told people something that simply wasnt true, infact it was the opposite of truth. So only believe from him what you can prove for yourself. But in the grand schemes of things the outcome of Baykars success has almost entirely been positive, if not entirely.

My own opinion is that this is all theatre. All these guys know each other well and their families all know each other. Its just another piece of entertainment to help AK partys election campaign. You simply wouldnt go after Baykar, it makes no sense whatsoever if you are trying to win an election, it only makes sense if you are trying to help AK party.

anyway i wont comment further on the issue, this thread isnt for politics.


as always and now you should prove things....
 

Fighter_35

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Then you go ahead and tell us what these supports are so we can be better imformed.
Hmm let me write directly for the ones I remember,

-free of charge land for new facility
-tax exemption
-state support hence ukranian engines will be produced by a company 50 percent of which belongs to bayraktar family
-right to export missiles of state company roketsan (with this they will even make money from roketsan missiles)

-many advertisement of state ,even TUSAŞ CEO mention Baykar more than Anka /aksungur etc.
-and there are also some other financial supports to increase production of tb-2 and akıncı but this can be considered normal ,other companies like BMC ,TUSAŞ also get this kind of support

More importantly, almost direct purchase by the army with out many tests(normally first products get countless tests by the army since they have their requirments) for each requirement army tests it rigoursly.
But we did not see this on akıncı, almost after Baykara finishes akıncı tests ,army directly purchased it with out months taking tests.

Is this enough?

Or can you tell me that you still believe that baykar used to produce tb-2 with 93 percent locality, while they use foreign engine, foreign camera , and many other important foreign components.

And see below what Babacan actually told!! Is there anything that is not logical in what he said??
 

Fighter_35

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Selcuk married Erdogan daughter in 2016, before that was damat thing? First Turkish uav used in operation in 2014. In 2015 armed operations in Turkey and abroad, and still burning things down.



babacan is trying to win pkk voters and you people are loving it to smash Bayraktar (y) .
I think you did not understand 😅😅.
I am not saying Baykars tb-2 purchased due being damat at that years!!
I am saying why Baykara is not mentioning for the things they get after becoming damat!! Instead they talk about before being damat and playing with the feelings of people.
They should write down every support they took after becoming damat!!
We don't care what challenges they faces before became damat!! Many people faced same challenges in Türkiye!! This is not special to them.
Akp to win the elections try to use Baykar and other defense companies success!! It is engineers success at this companies even though akp tries to fuck up that companies by assigning akp baboons there after taking over tskgv!!
As short, Baykara should mention all support it took and explain why they took it if other defense companies did not get same supports .
They can only make akpians believed by saying we did not get any support!!
 

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Hmm let me write directly for the ones I remember,

-free of charge land for new facility
-tax exemption
-state support hence ukranian engines will be produced by a company 50 percent of which belongs to bayraktar family
-right to export missiles of state company roketsan (with this they will even make money from roketsan missiles)

-many advertisement of state ,even TUSAŞ CEO mention Baykar more than Anka /aksungur etc.
-and there are also some other financial supports to increase production of tb-2 and akıncı but this can be considered normal ,other companies like BMC ,TUSAŞ also get this kind of support

More importantly, almost direct purchase by the army with out many tests(normally first products get countless tests by the army since they have their requirments) for each requirement army tests it rigoursly.
But we did not see this on akıncı, almost after Baykara finishes akıncı tests ,army directly purchased it with out months taking tests.

Is this enough?

Or can you tell me that you still believe that baykar used to produce tb-2 with 93 percent locality, while they use foreign engine, foreign camera , and many other important foreign components.

And see below what Babacan actually told!! Is there anything that is not logical in what he said??

Its insane that people believe that when they could even see the engine and optics were foreign, sometimes i wonder if the average intelligence in Turkey is quite low. You couldnt get away with these sorts of lies in england i don't think.

But to everyone falling for this trap, these guys babacan and the entire AK party elite are all close friends, they have businesses together, their families socialise together, they send their kids to the same schools etc.

This is another political trap to drain the energy of the Turkish public.
 

Fighter_35

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And let me add this,
Thanks to Bayraktars, we have good UAVs. But this does not mean that they can not be asked questions. Or we should directly purchase their products with out questions. Every company also state companies as well should compete and provide the best products. If Baykara used state support more than other companies, is this fair?? Is this unfair for other companies??
We are thankful to Bayraktar brothers but they should be ready to answer every question. State of course will support them, but they should have answers , and answer we look for is not that Baykara did not use any state support!
 

Hasanrize

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I think you did not understand 😅😅.
I am not saying Baykars tb-2 purchased due being damat at that years!!
I am saying why Baykara is not mentioning for the things they get after becoming damat!! Instead they talk about before being damat and playing with the feelings of people.
They should write down every support they took after becoming damat!!
We don't care what challenges they faces before became damat!! Many people faced same challenges in Türkiye!! This is not special to them.
Akp to win the elections try to use Baykar and other defense companies success!! It is engineers success at this companies even though akp tries to fuck up that companies by assigning akp baboons there after taking over tskgv!!
As short, Baykara should mention all support it took and explain why they took it if other defense companies did not get same supports .
They can only make akpians believed by saying we did not get any support!!
The burden of proof is on the accuser.

If you accuse someone of something, you can't expect them to prove their innocence; you must bring your evidence.

Babacan ofc didn't directly say the name of Baykar. But it is no brainer to understand he mentioned Baykar. Also, his party shared this piece of evidence, but it proves what Baykar said. They did not get money from the state.

They were also accused of getting money from İstanbul Municipality. Eventually, Baykar filed a lawsuit which ended Baykar winning the case. They couldn't bring a single piece of evidence even though Mayor is a CHP member.

-free of charge land for new facility
-tax exemption
-state support hence ukranian engines will be produced by a company 50 percent of which belongs to bayraktar family
-right to export missiles of state company roketsan (with this they will even make money from roketsan missiles)

-many advertisement of state ,even TUSAŞ CEO mention Baykar more than Anka /aksungur etc.
-and there are also some other financial supports to increase production of tb-2 and akıncı but this can be considered normal ,other companies like BMC ,TUSAŞ also get this kind of support
Did you really consider the right to export missiles made by Roketsan as generous to help from the state? Seriously what is the point of combat UAVs without missiles? Did Roketsan not get money from those sales?

Temel Kotil talked about it a few times and said that the success of TB-2 is also good for them since it is an advertisement for the Turkish arms industry. They are selling Hürkuş, for example, and TB-2 surely was a factor in that because those states are also TB-2 buyers.

The state also had to provide them with the land. Because you know what? They made a flying thing that carries an 80 kg high explosive payload. You can't do it in your grandfather's backyard. Also, there is sensitive technology; you must be under the state's eye.

Also, Babacan is right in principle. But if you look give pay attention to Oğuz Ergin, who is working with the Defense Industry and has a lot of students working there, you can understand that the biggest problem is not Baykar or TUSAŞ or BMC. It is actually ASELSAN.


Also, in many talks, Kozan Erkan confirmed this, especially if you watch his last video with Fazıl Hızal, who is running many critical projects by himself. Although he didn't directly mention ASELSAN, his words correlate with Oğuz Ergin. They also confirmed that Baykar is most honest defense company for subcontractors.

 

Akakce

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Your opinions don't matter to me, only facts.
"Just off the top of my head the engine austrian rotex engine? British fuel pumps from Andair, Wescam optics, Germin GPS hardware, French Areo supplied brake fluid cannisters, other guidance systems from germany i think even the tires were from a British company.
But the point stands he told people something that simply wasnt true, infact it was the opposite of truth. So only believe from him what you can prove for yourself."
You just list a few products from the top of your head and claim that Bayraktar TB2s were mostly "imported and assembled" then. This is a pretty funny claim considering that TB2 contains numerous subsystems including dozens of different types of electronics, mechanical systems, and software. Yes, the engine of the TB2 is of foreign origin as well as the optics (replaced by domestic Turkish optics) which is included in the given rate, 93% from the beginning.

Your made-up point does not stand at all. If you think the rims and fuel pumps make up the majority of a UAV, think again. Only the types of avionics developed by Baykar itself multiply those things in numbers, let alone the contribution of the other Turkish defense companies.

I should also mention that Baykar uses different components of foreign origin when it is demanded by the customer. That doesn't mean the equivalent domestic component isn't being used by Baykar & other customers.

Show me how it was the opposite of the truth as you still claim:
"...it turned out nearly everything was imported and assembled."
Do you even know when did Selçuk Bayraktar make this statement for the first time, and what was the localization rate of TB2s then? Which (sub)components were manufactured abroad? How did you exactly "prove it for yourself"?
 

Fighter_35

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The burden of proof is on the accuser.

If you accuse someone of something, you can't expect them to prove their innocence; you must bring your evidence.

Babacan ofc didn't directly say the name of Baykar. But it is no brainer to understand he mentioned Baykar. Also, his party shared this piece of evidence, but it proves what Baykar said. They did not get money from the state.

They were also accused of getting money from İstanbul Municipality. Eventually, Baykar filed a lawsuit which ended Baykar winning the case. They couldn't bring a single piece of evidence even though Mayor is a CHP member.


Did you really consider the right to export missiles made by Roketsan as generous to help from the state? Seriously what is the point of combat UAVs without missiles? Did Roketsan not get money from those sales?

Temel Kotil talked about it a few times and said that the success of TB-2 is also good for them since it is an advertisement for the Turkish arms industry. They are selling Hürkuş, for example, and TB-2 surely was a factor in that because those states are also TB-2 buyers.

The state also had to provide them with the land. Because you know what? They made a flying thing that carries an 80 kg high explosive payload. You can't do it in your grandfather's backyard. Also, there is sensitive technology; you must be under the state's eye.

Also, Babacan is right in principle. But if you look give pay attention to Oğuz Ergin, who is working with the Defense Industry and has a lot of students working there, you can understand that the biggest problem is not Baykar or TUSAŞ or BMC. It is actually ASELSAN.


Also, in many talks, Kozan Erkan confirmed this, especially if you watch his last video with Fazıl Hızal, who is running many critical projects by himself. Although he didn't directly mention ASELSAN, his words correlate with Oğuz Ergin. They also confirmed that Baykar is most honest defense company for subcontractors.

We will see every details after akp era,don't worry!!
just check rokwtsan deal with Baykara for missile exports. How a company accepts that Baykar will sell rokwtsan products but not rokwtsan itself!!
We know how rokwtsan accepts this!!
 

Hasanrize

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We will see every details after akp era,don't worry!!
just check rokwtsan deal with Baykara for missile exports. How a company accepts that Baykar will sell rokwtsan products but not rokwtsan itself!!
We know how rokwtsan accepts this!!
Because it is a package deal, how many missiles will Roketsan be able to sell if there is no TB-2 or ANKA, or others? You act like Roketsan produces the missiles, gives them to Baykar, and eventually, Baykar pockets the entire money.

Should the customer also deal separately with ASELSAN for optics and TEI for engines?
 

Fighter_35

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Because it is a package deal, how many missiles will Roketsan be able to sell if there is no TB-2 or ANKA, or others? You act like Roketsan produces the missiles, gives them to Baykar, and eventually, Baykar pockets the entire money.

Should the customer also deal separately with ASELSAN for optics and TEI for engines?
Just show me a deal with Lockheed Martin or TUSAŞ that you pay money to Lockheed or TUSAŞ for missiles of another company!!
Optic and electronic systems of UAVs are installed from production!! And they are part of the UAV unlike missiles!!
How can you compare them ??
Has roketsan same deal with TUSAŞ,of course not!! So do not try to legitimize this.
 

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I fail to understand the problem of questioning a company regardless of what products they produce or the positive/negative effect they have on our current situation. Every pro-ukranian supporter is fond of the tb-2 , not just Turks. If a product is succesfully fulfilling its role the opinion of others is unnecessary, like it is unnecessary there will be as much haters as there is lovers.
All establishments can be subjected to questions/criticism regardless of their success , I fail to understand why some of you flame up and start accusing others and even go far enough to make race /ethnicity comments because somebody is just simply questioning a company

I am also extremely proud of Baykar and their successes in 3 major conflicts but this doesn't take away my right of questioning , without questioning there would be no progress and the ' if they are on my team i should only focus on their accomplishments and turn a blind eye to other not so good things' is the perfect breeding ground for corruption ( Once again I am not accusing Baykar of anything , I am just stating that everybody and everything should be questioned).

The objective is to protect Turkish citizens and the land not fanboy private companies regardless of their activities. It is that simple , you do something that will benefit the country I will like you and be grateful but I will not glorify you. Baykar isn't Turkiye , they are a private defense company manufacturing unmanned air vehicles they may present Turkiye in the international market and do damn well at it but they are not Turkiye nothing is stopping them selling everything and transfering technology to a differnet country ( once again an example not an accusation) my point is everybody has the right to question them to a certain boundary stop protecting supporting them like you know everything that goes on behind the curtains ( I am tired of this but I feel I need to say this again as there will be people nit-picking this text to make me the opposition - This is not an accusation this is simply the mentality we need when looking at this.
 

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I fail to understand the problem of questioning a company regardless of what products they produce or the positive/negative effect they have on our current situation. Every pro-ukranian supporter is fond of the tb-2 , not just Turks. If a product is succesfully fulfilling its role the opinion of others is unnecessary, like it is unnecessary there will be as much haters as there is lovers.
All establishments can be subjected to questions/criticism regardless of their success , I fail to understand why some of you flame up and start accusing others and even go far enough to make race /ethnicity comments because somebody is just simply questioning a company

I am also extremely proud of Baykar and their successes in 3 major conflicts but this doesn't take away my right of questioning , without questioning there would be no progress and the ' if they are on my team i should only focus on their accomplishments and turn a blind eye to other not so good things' is the perfect breeding ground for corruption ( Once again I am not accusing Baykar of anything , I am just stating that everybody and everything should be questioned).

The objective is to protect Turkish citizens and the land not fanboy private companies regardless of their activities. It is that simple , you do something that will benefit the country I will like you and be grateful but I will not glorify you. Baykar isn't Turkiye , they are a private defense company manufacturing unmanned air vehicles they may present Turkiye in the international market and do damn well at it but they are not Turkiye nothing is stopping them selling everything and transfering technology to a differnet country ( once again an example not an accusation) my point is everybody has the right to question them to a certain boundary stop protecting supporting them like you know everything that goes on behind the curtains ( I am tired of this but I feel I need to say this again as there will be people nit-picking this text to make me the opposition - This is not an accusation this is simply the mentality we need when looking at this.
You should do your questioning in the summer time. This time now is the time going up to elections and anything you say is ridden with politics and the goal is to fool a few fools into objecting what Baykar stands for.
 

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You should do your questioning in the summer time. This time now is the time going up to elections and anything you say is ridden with politics and the goal is to fool a few fools into objecting what Baykar stands for.
Once again I have had to repeat this 3 times but it seems you are having a problem with your understanding and reading, leave your politics out of the armed forces and defense companies I don't care what party you do or do not vote for.

Despite me repeating it 3 times you continue to ignore it. You are doing exactly what I talked about above this isn't a football team and you are not a holigan , this is a private defence company that you are 'supporting' with information you have gathered from the internet, it doesn't take an expert to tell you that everything on the internet isn't real. I have no problem and even admire Baykar for their work and effort giving us aerial independence with drones and giving my soldiers an eye in the sky, you are twisting my words like i have talked about above ( Im assuming you'd have to not read it to make such a comment) . Turkiye is in this situation beacuse we continuely refrain from questioning, you can believe everything you see on TV but I will question , you are no different from those accusing Baykar with no evidence to back it up .

You support with no evidence they oppose with no evidence. The harsh reality is that there is alot going on behind the curtains ( In general ,not specifically Baykar ) and most don't find the press. Questions are essential to the functioning of a free society , we are a democracy and everybody has the responsibility to excercise their rights . I can give you examples of countries where questioning is forbidden , and heaven knows why these countries appear to be the most technologically and education wise backward countries. Questioning everything is a moral imperative — stemming from the recognition that nothing is above being questioned — but moreover, it's the way we learn and grow as a society.

Im hoping you are able to understand me now

Your accusations are unnecesary , please do not cross the line .
 

Zafer

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Once again I have had to repeat this 3 times but it seems you are having a problem with your understanding and reading, leave your politics out of the armed forces and defense companies I don't care what party you do or do not vote for.

Despite me repeating it 3 times you continue to ignore it. You are doing exactly what I talked about above this isn't a football team and you are not a holigan , this is a private defence company that you are 'supporting' with information you have gathered from the internet, it doesn't take an expert to tell you that everything on the internet isn't real. I have no problem and even admire Baykar for their work and effort giving us aerial independence with drones and giving my soldiers an eye in the sky, you are twisting my words like i have talked about above ( Im assuming you'd have to not read it to make such a comment) . Turkiye is in this situation beacuse we continuely refrain from questioning, you can believe everything you see on TV but I will question , you are no different from those accusing Baykar with no evidence to back it up .

You support with no evidence they oppose with no evidence. The harsh reality is that there is alot going on behind the curtains ( In general ,not specifically Baykar ) and most don't find the press. Questions are essential to the functioning of a free society , we are a democracy and everybody has the responsibility to excercise their rights . I can give you examples of countries where questioning is forbidden , and heaven knows why these countries appear to be the most technologically and education wise backward countries. Questioning everything is a moral imperative — stemming from the recognition that nothing is above being questioned — but moreover, it's the way we learn and grow as a society.

Im hoping you are able to understand me now

Your accusations are unnecesary , please do not cross the line .
No I don't learn from the internet, I have listened to speeaches of Haluk Bayraktar first hand, shook hands with him several times long before they dropped the first bomb from their planes.

Stop your nonsense.
 

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Babacan and ther bs crew acusation was based on this. Shameles people...

 

Xenon54

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Once again I have had to repeat this 3 times but it seems you are having a problem with your understanding and reading, leave your politics out of the armed forces and defense companies I don't care what party you do or do not vote for.

Despite me repeating it 3 times you continue to ignore it. You are doing exactly what I talked about above this isn't a football team and you are not a holigan , this is a private defence company that you are 'supporting' with information you have gathered from the internet, it doesn't take an expert to tell you that everything on the internet isn't real. I have no problem and even admire Baykar for their work and effort giving us aerial independence with drones and giving my soldiers an eye in the sky, you are twisting my words like i have talked about above ( Im assuming you'd have to not read it to make such a comment) . Turkiye is in this situation beacuse we continuely refrain from questioning, you can believe everything you see on TV but I will question , you are no different from those accusing Baykar with no evidence to back it up .

You support with no evidence they oppose with no evidence. The harsh reality is that there is alot going on behind the curtains ( In general ,not specifically Baykar ) and most don't find the press. Questions are essential to the functioning of a free society , we are a democracy and everybody has the responsibility to excercise their rights . I can give you examples of countries where questioning is forbidden , and heaven knows why these countries appear to be the most technologically and education wise backward countries. Questioning everything is a moral imperative — stemming from the recognition that nothing is above being questioned — but moreover, it's the way we learn and grow as a society.

Im hoping you are able to understand me now

Your accusations are unnecesary , please do not cross the line .
I absolutely understand what you are trying to say in contrary to some people, its really hard to question or critisize anything without getting labeled these days, this is the exact reason why i kept quiet about Kizilelma because some of my questions or criticisms will surely agitate some people here.
But this is not just in defence sector, Turkey these days is painted in black and white, either you are with us or against us hence you either only hear praises or smear campaings, anything in between is just not welcome.

The other day i read ''You were bad mouthing Baykar, i dont give shits about you'' this was coming from a forum administrator btw, one might think the guy insulted a prophet or something.

Honestly, i just leave it now, i am only interested in TFX, i can participate there because i am optimistic about it despite some concerns so you wont hear much critisizm about it from me, at least from what i saw so far.
But i just completely leave out platforms such as Kizilelma where i am more sceptical about it. Unpopular opinions are not really welcome and it always resorts in name callings and troll fests.
 

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