Brother, I am not sure if this is best thread for me to explore my answer to this (w.r.t Jinnah specifically).
If you (or another mod etc) feel its too heavy/weighty...we can move it to a new thread in say hobby section under something like "Nilgiri philosophy/musings etc"...for maybe all my weighty replies in general for topics at this forum that come from time to time, because it has been many years and moments of deep musing/thought by me, combined with authors and archives I have read on such issues.
Let me first start by quoting
@Joe Shearer take on the developments at large of that time (interested readers can hit the arrow to see the larger context of convo there)...that probably shook something inside of me (in sad nostalgic way) at that moment than he knew, but I did not really care to express myself on it back then:
Let me say in younger different years, I have read my fair share on Jinnah and all the history of that era.
I have had more than my fill on it...but given the overarching nature of the consequences today...I am also resigned that Joe, you and other worthies (both online and outside closer to me) bringing up such subject too.
i.e People I admire and respect, lighting the torch in that dark room from time to time...in ways known only to me. So I might as well try air out a few thoughts I have...before I let them cobweb up for good...for reasons more personal to me, I have little sustained interest to remember them as boldly as I once did.
I always ask people cognisant on this era on what is the exact breadth, depth and timing that Jinnah "took" on the British and help form mass movements/national cohesion against them.
The exact nature of the struggle, striving, facing prison time etc...within the limits of one that wants to be a well disciplined but commited revolutionary against injustice....in this case so those that were perpetrating such were shown our great Hindustani ethos and resolve to them being a long overstaying foreign oppressor... that is to be evicted from a place they have no reason being and doing what they were.
So far I have not found a good enough answer to hold him (jinnah) in a good light on it...and I doubt I ever will...and if anything can change it.
I am of course biased (who isn't?), but I feel it is unsettling to anyone if they look at him with as neutral eyes and enough context and understanding as possible.
I personally will always prefer and deeply respect the honest principled action of Gandhi.
As much as we can then debate those principles, he followed them honestly in a way it is near impossible to find another.... and it spurred a prolonged national stirring and consequential awakening like no other in history too.
In my near-final analysis, Gandhi was acting in good faith of Hindustan needing dignity, liberation, self-determination and national unity and pretty much start to finish once he developed his vision and platform.
It was and he was inevitably blemished with errors and faults, but it was and he was an overall edifice and example for eternity.
The identity was Hindustani nationalism, thats it...no other identity need colour and taint that for a very important reason (and this is what sub-identitarians, back then and today, don't grasp honestly and never will.
Jinnah and concoction of using religious faith (turning against many of his own asserted initial principles) convinced himself on a great folly to make some partitioned majoritarian setup on a sub-identity of Hindustan....and the region, world and humanity pays for it with great consequence.
This is why even though I may admire some parts of Jinnah's character, story and initial spirit... I can
never like him as a whole or even close to that... given his mid stream change and final (deeply flawed) logic, conclusion and consequence of what he did.
I care not to much further explore what I exactly mean by "not liking"...especially what was and since has been wrought by this bubbled, elitist, dissonant idealism as to what is actually a worthy identity for national formation.
All the more given the state and predicament of the populace at the time (and today) that ought to be blindingly obvious to anyone with power and influence if they are well reasoned and honest (the two features that are of the ONLY consequence to me for any leader or person in general)
Filling society with this kind of irrational unprincipled basis that he and others did, given society having grossly imperfect temperament, condition and education (then and now) is unforgivable to me.
Ultimately it meant more spawning and establishment of properly abominable demagogues (who had far fewer redeeming qualities than Jinnah, and its obvious he did not account for this) and the entrenched negative displacement narrative that has led to half the country leaving it (with completely unnecessary further bloodshed of foulest kind) and now the remaining half atrophying as only
@VCheng can best summarise with input and output design.
All because its elitists and demagogues needing to double down on this flawed identity complex that has taken new ungainly downstream proportions, with enough of the masses blindly believing them (then and now) or simply doing the "go along to get along" thing with them to earn their bread in some relative peace.
But the fact this extremely flawed narrative and all flawed counter-narratives (of which now India has it's particular supposedly newer toxic variant metastasizing) essentially seem to be the ones that have won and are winning more and more minds....seemingly again reminding us (or at least me) that it is the darkest parts of human nature that are most easily accessible to too many.
It is deeply repulsive to me to contemplate more than needed these days.
I prefer to be a small boat on surface on my merry way and not think of these undercurrents anymore.
I have long studied the history and psyche behind this globally when I had the interest and time for it, probably more than anyone else in this forum, with the likely exception of Joe.
It has scarred me for life...but also make me hold and appreciate that which is good and beautiful, ordered and rational in our species and in our world even more closer. But that does not sit well as sufficient silver lining for reasons unknown to me (maybe its because I get older and the shine on certain things I took for granted wears off)
Anyway to me, ultimately for this subcontinent, large portion of this dark undercurrent (at the levels of consequence in the modern more "enlightened" era i.e leadership) are traced back to Jinnah (and this late-stream involvement joe refers to, of which he was the spearhead), however well meaning he may or may not have been is known only to him and Him in the end.
To me, the way he went about doing what he did (stoking and doubling down on this psyche and narrative) while the congress leadership went full out in "quit India" against British during WW2 and got imprisoned/house arrested for it in stretches and thus were largely out of the picture to counter it in a crucial stretch of years....leaves a very unsettling thing to dwell on for me.
It reeks of an unprincipled unfair approach in bad faith. By the time they were out and about again, it was too late...the damage and I suppose destiny had set in.
It is subject I find sordid, it just puts me in a foul mood to think on it... as to the "could have beens" given what has now entrenched at great consequence and cost...further exacerbated by millions living in denial, ignorance or even some base, degenerate and perverse enjoyment at it.
I for one don't see any way out of it either, it now has gravity all on its own, just like the gravity I see in other regions of the world for matters the same and different.
All in just a tiny drop of time, just a few cohorts and fewer generations...demeaning all the great hopes and potential of their much longer lineage and heritage. That's all it takes to irreparably ruin all these lives, and so few (I find) are sufficiently attuned to that...not just in subcontinent, but the entire world.
It just saps me and crushes me, things like this (it being Christmas time and all)...the words, the reality vs hope.
For example, every word in the conclusion (at 43 minute mark to the very end of it though whole feature worth watching) feels like a cold, hard stone thrown in my face:
I enjoyed watching this one....that era when transition to rockets over guns started given the advantages. With further development of sensoring and guidance, we now take such things for granted on modern warships.....but back then the basic innovations and doctrines had to be explored and...
defencehub.live
...and then I think in that time frame of that war, our boys and men that went to fight it for "king and country" that was not their own...did so for various reasons but often in the hope this would finally push a recognition by that "King and country" that we were equals deserving our political rights and ultimate right to express it as we chose to and work towards that goal...ready to sacrifice life if needed.
Those boys and men, those of which came from your neck of the woods (eg. Punjab regiments) and mine (eg. Madras Sappers), your very own forefathers and mine (And really not too long ago either).... would have known the names Hindustan, India and Bharat (while fighting and dieing in those foreign lands and foreign wars for that foreign King)....
but not Pakistan. How is this circle squared by their descendants in all manner of ways? It takes it toll on lot of people thinking and action without them even realising it...the psyche deep down is a strange thing in our species.
So to me it is clear to see what happened and who the main agents were in perpetrating and exploiting some chosen rift of their fancy...going against their better, honest earlier judgement.
Easy to cleave, hard to build I suppose...no surprise the worst things we do involve the former and the best things we do involve the latter.
But the deep human spirit, our very souls know which one is easy and which is hard given we all deeply see a higher purpose in making effort for order, the order we seem to gleam in the universe around us and above us.
Thus I grow increasingly incensed when I see downstream effect of brother wars, knowing most people deep down must surely recognise and know this moral truth.
We were (and are) clearly brothers in the subcontinent...but all these hearts and minds poisoned against this is too much for me to dwell on anymore, especially at the 1st principles roots I see that did the most on creating this.
Simply I have been born into this poison, I have seen it all in my family too, the very people I love the most on this 3rd rock from the sun. I feel I likely only gained larger truth (on matters such as this) by distancing from all that.
I do not know whether to be happy or sad in doing that (distancing + reflection) nowadays. Maybe it was just better to stay "simpler" like them and less aware, keep certain things as black and white as possible...who knows.
For the more I push into the realm of complete honest morality, I just see more and more human failure in reality all around me.
It grinds and hurts my soul...I have to balance that now...I am not so young, ambitious and reckless like before, some reason my mind feels heavier now and needs to simply lose deadweight I feel is dragging it down.
I simply realise maybe 1 out of 100 people do or even attempt this good faith approach to some higher endeavour...so 99% of time I'm stuck like a sucker spouting what seems foolish platitudes and get left with short end of the stick....having pleased no one and maybe achieved worse in the end given everyone absolutely loves their echo chambers these days if they are even capable of seeing what those are in first place.
So in our region, the brother wars I see are the biggest stain...
Saare Jahan Se Accha, Hindositan Hamara...
Who wrote those words tells the story in how the brother war originates, spreads, establishes and lingers...
A most sad tragedy, given what the 1st partition entailed on innocent lives, what the 2nd partition in 1971 entailed again on innocent lives...and the entrenched emboldened narratives the brothers have formed on each other now that are merely taken to be default fact because its feels good and thus a number of (clear) deepest mistakes need justification or denial.
All when it could have been a pure crystallized focus on sons of the soil, the salt of the earth of a great land and civilisation, getting rid of oppressor from half the world away that had no right to be there...and then build bridges across whatever issues we have as Hindustanis.
What should have been the greatest triumph of unity, dignity and destiny... ended up being what we have now, founded on fears and lies (of a striking few) being stoked to grow, consume and persist...by simply knowing and exploiting (overtly or subconciously) that which is "downhill" vs "uphill" when it comes to human nature.
May God have mercy on our sins...may he punish every evil-doer and redeem every innocent lost..and judge all in-between.
All that does not happen down here by our free-will given our great egos we nurture and dark Babel towers we build at whatever cost to our fellow man
So much so that a brother will turn on a brother like this overnight, like Cain on Abel....after all that they have both been through....and it seems to be a rule rather than exception looking across time and space.
I have no words to describe this properly! I don't think any words exist at all for it. This only feels like a few drops of what lies in my heart on this predicament I see in mankind.
Only
He knows best, only
He knows the purpose of it all...I have to believe in this...that there is an absolute truth and justice somewhere....far away from the hands of men and mankind (man is not kind at all)....but a great reckoning for what they do with those hands with the precious little time allotted to them.