Broadsheet Saga. Tale of mega corruption.

[Kaptaan]

So today the Government of Pakistan has released the British High Court judgement in the case of Broadsheet LLC versus NAB, Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

From the skim reading I did these are the big take aways I get -

• that in early 2000 General Musharaf's regime contracted Broadsheet to chase and repatriate the monies that had been misappropriated by various officials, politicians, military officers etc from the Pakistani state.
• that in late 2000 the government of Pakistan began to back track from the very mission it had given Broadsheet.
• that in 2003 government of Pakistan formally notified Broadsheet that the contract was cancelled.

Broadsheet case against the Pakistan government was that the contract could not be cancelled unilaterally by government of Pakistan. Further thart by doing so Broadsheet suffered fininacial loss from monies it would have got off the "targets" or those individuals who were corrupt.

In deciding the case Sir Peter Evans looked at -

1. did Broadsheet have the capability, the will and ability to have returned hidden monies from the targets if the government of Pakistan had continued to abide by the contract?
2. what amount of monies could Broadsheet have, within reason got repatriated from the targets?
3. who were the targets?

To the first question the judgement by Sir Peter Evans was a emphatic "yes".
to the second question [there are more but the amounts are smaller] the judgement was -

• $164,000,000 from Nawaz Sharif and family which includes Ishaq Dar
• $100,000,000 from Saif ur Rehman and Mujibar Rehman

In summary the judgement states "Broadsheet had the desire and capability neccessary to assets for Pakistan" but "NAB had starved Broadsheet of information and funds needed to succeed". Thus it awarded Broadsheet £27,000,000 in damages and compensation for "lost opportunity" caused by government of Pakistan reneging on the original contract of 2000.

More important than the award is the "outing" of the fact that Sir Peter Evans had by his judgement found Nawaz Sharif guilty of misappropriating the Pakistani state of $164,000,000 as the award made in favour of Broadsheet is premised on repatriation of the said money to Pakistan with appropriate commission [their cut] being recieved by Broadsheet.

Frankly for me if the Pakistani public still continue supporting Nawaz Sharif or the Bhutto's after Panamagate and now Broadsheetgate scandals I suggest India uses those Brahmos missiles tipped with nukes to do a population cull in Pakistan by firing at Lahore, Islamabad, Karachi etc.

UK High Court Decision in NAB Vs Broadsheet LLC (Quantum Award) | PDF | Damages | Public Law

The government has made the documents in the case involving the National Accountability Bureau and Broadsheet LLC public.

www.scribd.com

@Saiyan0321 thoughts?

 

[Kaptaan]

The British court found that Broadsheet had a right to 20% of $3.5 million at $0.7 million because they traced it to Aftab Sherpao's account [former Chief Minister of North West Frontier Province, now Khyber Pakhtunkwa] in Jersey. Broadsheet then applied for and had the account frozen after which the information was passed to NAB in Pakistan.

However instead of taking proceedings to have the money repatriated to Pakistan NAB failed to take action and instead would cancel the contract with Broadsheet. Instead of taking Aftab Sherpao to court and have his misappropriated money taken back Aftab Sherpao became the Interior Minister. What a irony. That is like entrusting jackal to guard the sheep. Amazingly Jersey authorities could not leave Aftab Sherpao's account frozen indefinitely and appealed to Pakistan to take action. This extract says it all.

This really is disgusting. This exposes what I have always said. Musharaf was nothing but a little man who was hungry for power and turned out to be as corrupt as Nawaz Sharif. This also tells us how deep corruption has taken root in Pakistan. I only pray that PM Imran Khan manages to clean the country although now I can see there is extreme threat to his personal safety. The figures for the people named in the judgement runs into billions of dollars and politicians, officials, military officers are all involved with media even bought out.

@Saiyan0321

 

[Kaptaan]

Finally the Sharif family. The judgement finds the having over $850 million corrupt monies held in various countries. However it finds that had Broadsheet been allowed to proceed against the Sharif's the figure that is estimated as possibly recovery is $95 million. At 20% commission to Broadsheet would be $19 million which is awarded to Broadsheet. We must note that the judgement pre-supposes that Sharif family are guilty of corruption and that they would have had to return $95 million out of which Broadsheet would have got their costs and fees.

I guess this about should finish Nawaz Sharif, Maryam Sharif and his sons to spend their days in prison. But this being Pakistan I expect they will be inshallah back in power at some point in the future. My bet is on Nawaz's daughter Maryam Nawaz as future PM of Pakistan. Maybe 2023 or more likely 2028. Another Benezir Bhutto in the making.

 

[Kaptaan]

Finally the tabulated figures of the damages awarded to Broadsheet. As can be seen the biggest component is for lost opportunity from Nawaz Sharif corrupt monies. This amounts to Sharif being found guilty of corruption implicity by a British court following from the explicit guilt found by Supreme Court of Pakistan.

 

[Saiyan0321]

@Kaptaan frankly the government should take severe action and meanwhile chastise NAB as well, an organization that has been more about political witch hunting and witch hunting in general and less about actual anti-corruption efforts.

You would rarely, if ever, find any supporter of Nawaz that says that Nawaz sharif is clean. The slogan "khatay hai tu do lagatay bhi hai" is holds a secret in it which is often ignored due to its disgusting acceptance of corruption but what is ignored is the fact that this widely said sentence is an acceptance of the fact that the people know they are corrupt. Whether the people are ok with it or not is another argument but the fact is that in the so called "awam ki adalat" they are known as corrupt and nobody is surprised at these revelations. Even their most die hard supporters agree that they are corrupt. I just have to travel through saggian road to know how corrupt N was and how they kept giving tenders to butt corporation which built a road that broke three days later. Three days. It's a wonder the Ravi bridge didn't fall.

The government should use these revelations and legal judgment as a way to take action against Nawaz sharif and the cronies. If you ask me, I hate, and I mean hate these sharif and zardaris. Hate them and I am tired of hearing about corruption. Imran may get blamed for seized assets and non-payments but he has inherited alot of these problems from the economic and financial mess N and PPP left this country in, one of the worst being artificial dollar rate for which both N and MUSHARRAF are most guilty of. The fact that they would state that this artificial status is equivalent to a vibrant economy is evidence of the fact on how they were deceiving the populace based on popular perceptions like less dollar rate equalled greater economy.

As for power hungry, all of them are. All dictators and politicians have focused solely on securing their power hold with many politicians inviting military intervention or involving military by themselves to secure their power against their rivals. The 90s politics was filled with this. These actions and striving for building their sole central authority has ruined this country and it's constitutional history.

As for MUSHARRAF and his hypocrisy. Well we don't have to look further than his actions when he was in power to see how his actions were not based on any vision but entirely based in securing his own personal power. Case in point was the support of MMA in KPK. His LFO ordinances included a graduation clause but that graduation clause, to facilitate the mullahs also included degrees from madaris and madrassahs allowing many, previously powerful religious candidates who did not have the qualification, to run and with the rigged elections allowed MMA to take power. A party that was extremely religious and extremely controversial as they allowed the taliban to make bases all over KPK. For MUSHARRAF, who always portrayed himself as a modernist leader, this step reveals his political ambitions solely for the security of his own rule. By 2008, he was happily willing to deal with the people he promised to hunt as long as they would accept him in power as president. So the actions of musharraf are also not surprising apart from for those that lived in the foolish bubble that he was all clean and righteous. He was as much righteous as his predecessors were Nothing more. Nothing less.


Ummm I don't think she can ever be benazir no matter how deluded her supporters and the modernist class in pakistan would like to think she is. Benazir was different and actually far more cunning and this is often displayed by her political contemporaries and historians who have written about here. Here is the thing, benazir would never have made the farce that Maryam made of the GB election. Zero campaign that her own electioneer in GB got tired of calling her, zero energy and she spent the entire time focusing on PDM when she visited two weeks before the election, rather than on the election itself leaving the CM hafeez ur rehman completely and utterly dejected. Benazir would have campaigned like hell as she often did in the AJK election in the 90s with sardar ibrahim. A major region, which was the last frontier base for N was lost because her entire focus is, I have no idea where it is. Seems ego driven to be honest. That's the only explaination for this confusion.
She won't. Not anytime soon.

People are tired of corruption and dynasties. They may not like Imran but that doesn't mean that they love nawaz. Election after election is evidence of this.

Let me get a model in set. The modernist aka liberal ( I call them modernist because they are not liberal in the political liberalism sense. They have no clue what liberalism is and often spout concepts that are similar to a western modernist. I am cool with that but call yourself what you are). So these analysts claim the following the model

if the political dynamic of Pakistan is like as such often portrayed by our modernist analysts

The poor people who are apolitical rules by a kingly class of sardars and waderas and vote where they want them to vote.

The radical middle class which is Imran fan and mostly army fan. The patriot class is among them.

The elite who are the king makers composed solely of bureaucracy, judges, army, industrialists, without whom, you can get a few seats at best.

Then nawaz has lost friends everywhere. The apolitical follow the king makers whom follow their benefits.

The middle class is army so imrsn

And the rich are supporting Imran since he favors them and army is the king of all

The above is the modernist analysis that they present as the rotten structure of the Pakistani state but if the above is true then it is in contrary to their statement that Maryam will penetrate since, according to their model, without military and industrialist support, she can't penetrate an inch since the king class that rules over the poor will only follow which is where the army will take them and if the middle class is imran radical patriotic army living fan, then according to the modernist in Pakistan, she is destined to lose. If they made Imran, nawaz and everyone else, then she needs them to make her. So their model is the greatest impediment to the argument that Maryam is the solution. So either the model is broken or the argument is broken.

Even if we ignore the model and focus solely on the aspect on whether maryam can penetrate or not, her political failures alone make it very hard. Her extremely bad handling of politics during the GB election and her even more radical idea of resignation which will do nothing at all to the government in power but give them even more seats and in turn more power.

The next is the AJK election and so far, again PTI has made committees and is campaigning whereas she is nowhere to be found.

So coming back to whether we will ever see her in power or not. Frankly I doubt it. The modernist model of Pakistan has many many flaws but it is correct in one assumption that simple populism is not enough to win elections in Pakistan since even the most populist of leaders cannot penetrate the set regions of political support in Pakistan. Even Bhutto was not able to win everywhere in Pakistan. So even the most popular of leaders will have to make alliances with the set king makers ( even without the army factor, these alliances will have to be made) and here we have to include army as a factor so we need their support or at worse not their opposition. So she still, if she ever becomes a populist leader, she will still have to make alliances with these two elements to gain political power. Well never say never in Pakistan politics but she is not a good candidate in the eyes of GHQ. Weirdly enough I would say bilawal would have a far greater case.

2023 no way. 2028 would have bilawal as a main rival of Imran than Maryam.

 

[Saiyan0321]

@Kaptaan here is where fatima points how benazir was willing to compromise with zia for power

 

[Saiyan0321]

So even benazir knew that she needed the support of the military and going the way if murtaza was only going to bring upon them the same fate that was brought upon their father. So basically if Maryam is to come to power then she will need the support of the military. The political dynamic in Pakistan is that even in the event of constant confrontation between state and military, the government simply ceases to absolutely function. This is the absolute truth. Even if we take that military cannot bring people magically to power, which they can't, evidence is case study of PSP, even then they are the major party of power and they cannot be ignored and if ignored or pressed upon then it will only lead to state paralyzing confrontation.

The only exception of this was Bhutto in 1971-1977 and that was solely due to the defeat in 1971 and loss of eastern wing.

 

[VCheng]

So even benazir knew that she needed the support of the military and going the way if murtaza was only going to bring upon them the same fate that was brought upon their father. So basically if Maryam is to come to power then she will need the support of the military. The political dynamic in Pakistan is that even in the event of constant confrontation between state and military, the government simply ceases to absolutely function. This is the absolute truth. Even if we take that military cannot bring people magically to power, which they can't, evidence is case study of PSP, even then they are the major party of power and they cannot be ignored and if ignored or pressed upon then it will only lead to state paralyzing confrontation.

The only exception of this was Bhutto in 1971-1977 and that was solely due to the defeat in 1971 and loss of eastern wing.

Bhutto was on borrowed time after he got the PsOW back. Look at how his political family was killed off, in addition to him, just to make clear the true power hierarchy.

 

[Kaptaan]

Bhutto was or borrowed time after he got the PsOW back. Look at how his political family was killed off, in addition to him, just to make clear the true power hierarchy.

Your hatred for the Pakistan Army is so visceral that you sound more Indian then American - because that disease is mostly rampant in Indians. Your hate seems to obstruct logical thinking. Bhutto did not get the "POW's" back. If you are aware of laws of war, prisoners have to be returned. Even your mighty USA returned German Waffen-SS, German Whermacht POWS back to Germany within months of the war ending. Or did you keep them locked up for life in some prisons in Nevada, Nebraska etc? And these soldiers fought for the most evil regime of our recent history responsible for genocide of 6 million Jews and 10s of millions others killed.

You make it sound like Bhutto did some personal favour .....

 

[Kaptaan]

I think we need to look deeper at the very nature of Pakistan and Pakistani state to understand the malaise that creates events like Broadsheet or Panama and other scandals. The answer sadly does NOT lie within the consititution of Pakistan or the laws of Pakistan or the supreme court of Pakistan or judges of Pakistan because they merely operate within a larger ecosystem. We need to look at the power ecosysatem in Pakistan to make informed conclusions.

We need to look at the state and beyond individuals. Because I think that is where trhe problem is. Everything else is just symptoms. Question here is what is the Pakistani state or the establishment. Every country has establishment. It is the core groups who by consensus are custodians of the direction a state takes. We saw that in USA.

A elected President with millions of votes was emasculated by the American establishment. The US establishment is the sum of it's large corporations, the media, senior politicians from both sides of the camp, the senior military, civilian officials, judicial officials who all work in synergy the product of which we call the USA. Trump was part of that establishment despite being a maverick but when he steared to far from the consensus we saw how he was castrated.

The problem with Pakistan is there never has been a national consenus that unfied all the power centres in the country. The result is we have so many 'Pakistan's running and colliding under in the geographic space of Pakistan. Pakistan does NOT have a monolith establishment and that is the cause of the malaise.

The closest thing Pakistan has to a establishment is the army. And this has been the case from 1947.

 

[Saiyan0321]

Govt has nothing to do with Broadsheet: PM Imran Khan​

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Imran Khan says the PTI government has nothing to do with the Broadsheet issue, as General (R) Pervez Musharraf had signed the contract and later backtracked on it unilaterally by giving an NRO to PML-N leader Nawaz Sharif.

He was talking to a private television channel during his visit to North Waziristan on Wednesday, which was aired Friday night.

Imran said the government had formed a ministerial committee — comprising judges and lawyers — to investigate the case and suggest ways to bring back the looted public money from abroad.

He said the government had to pay $28.7 million in damages to Broadsheet or face daily markup of 5,000 pounds (1100,000 Pak rupees). He also quoted a State Department’s report on annual money laundering of $10 billion, which made $200 billion during last 20 years.

The prime minister said the government was compelled to pass the impact of oil prices [on the international market] on to the consumers to avert increase in debt burden on the country.

Imran said the country could not afford taking more loans to keep oil prices at the minimum benchmark. He said devaluation of rupee impacted the prices of petroleum products, pulses, ghee and other imported items raising the inflation rate.

He said the dollar value had surged from Rs107 to Rs160 during the current government’s term, which contributed towards pushing the prices up. He also mentioned the expensive contracts signed by the previous government with the power producing companies with a difference of Rs3 in electricity generation and sale to the consumers.

“However, the incumbent government could not take such measures to further put the country under debt burden,” he added.

To a question, the prime minister said after merger with Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, the people of merged tribal districts would see a positive change vis-à-vis development of their area, as the provincial government would make huge spending there under a mega development package.

About the Pakistan Democratic Movement's (PDM) allegation against the PTI of getting funds from Israel and India, the prime minister reiterated that there should be an open hearing of the case be it by the Supreme Court or the Election Commission.

He said the PTI’s whole funding was legal with a complete record of donors, contrary to the opposition parties, which were unable to name their financiers. “Would I call for an open hearing (of the case) if I were frightened?” he questioned. He said the allegations of Israeli or Indian funding by an anti-PTI individual were ill-intentioned and mala fide.

He said in the past, the opposition had its own handpicked chief election commissioner (CEC). “Now as the incumbent government has appointed a new chief election commissioner after consultation with the opposition, people should know whether Israel or India funded the PTI or not,” he added.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Imran Khan Friday reiterated his commitment to ensure transparency in the Senate elections and respect the court decision in this regard. He said this while chairing a meeting of PTI representatives here.

“The Senate election has witnessed a history of horse-trading in the past. The government wants the Upper House legislators to be elected in a transparent manner,” he noted. Finance Minister Dr. Abdul Hafeez Sheikh informed the meeting that in light of Sensitive Price Indicators of the last seven weeks, the prices of onion, tomato and poultry had started declining and in the next few weeks, the prices of vegetable ghee will also begin dropping.

The meeting was also apprised of steps taken for release of wheat. The participants were also briefed on the ECC's decision on sugar imports and subsequent reduction in its price.

Meanwhile, chairing a review meeting on availability of basic commodities, especially wheat and sugar, and their prices, Prime Minister Imran Khan directed formulation of a comprehensive and effective plan to make the country self-sufficient in food.

The prime minister directed uninterrupted availability of these items at the utility stores and keeping a vigilant eye on prices till the holy month of Ramazan.

Federal Ministers Khusro Bakhtiar, Dr. Abdul Hafeez Sheikh, Senator Shibli Faraz, Syed Ali Haider Zaidi, Syed Fakhar Imam, Ali Amin Gandapur, Advisor to the Prime Minister Dr. Ishrat Hussain, Special Assistants Muhammad Usman Dar, Dr. Sania Nishtar, MD Utility Stores, and senior officers attended the meeting.

Punjab Minister for Food Abdul Aleem Khan, Advisor to the Punjab Chief Minister Dr. Salman Shah, and provincial chief secretaries attended the meeting through the video link. The meeting was also briefed on the next year's wheat production forecast and preparation for import as required.

The meeting was told that the government's decision to import wheat had stabilised the market. The meeting emphasised the need for increasing production of wheat and sugar and stabilising their prices. In this regard, the meeting asked the provinces to take steps for increasing production.

Meanwhile, parliamentarians met Prime Minister Imran Khan here. They included Faisalabad MNA Muhammad Asim Nazir, MNA Khurram Shehzad and Shahid Nazir.

The meeting was also attended by Trade Adviser Abdul Razak Dawood and Special Assistant on Political Affairs Malik Amir Dogar. The participants paid tribute to the prime minister on development of industries due to the government's business-friendly policies.

Separately, lawmakers from Swabi also called on prime minister. Senator Liaquat Tarakai, MNA Usman Khan Tarakai, KP Minister Shahram Tarakai, MPA Muhammad Ali Tarakai and Special Assistant for Political Affairs Malik Amir Dogar attended the meeting.

The meeting discussed in detail progress in the ongoing mega projects in Swabi. In addition, the participants briefed the prime minister on the problems of their constituencies and the steps to be taken for their solution.

The prime minister said that providing relief to people was the top priority of the government and urged the representatives to play a positive role in the legislative assemblies for welfare of their electorate.

Senator Sajjad Khan Turi also met Prime Minister Imran Khan while Special Assistant for Political Affairs Malik Amir Dogar also attended the meeting. The meeting discussed in detail the strategy for the upcoming Senate elections.

Senator Sajjad Khan Turi apprised the Prime Minister of the positive and effective role of retired senators in the party's upper house in legislation. Meanwhile, a delegation of Zahabi Group called on Prime Minister Imran Khan.

The delegation included Zahabi Group CEO Tanveer Hussain Awan, Director Salman Nasir Abdullah Al Badi and Pakistan Country Head Muhammad Shahbaz Khan. Advisor to the Prime Minister Abdul Razak Dawood, Special Assistant Syed Zulfiqar Abbas Bukhari, Chairman Kashmir Committee Shehryar Khan Afridi and Chairman BOI Atif Bukhari were also present.

Appreciating Prime Minister Imran Khan's vision for investment promotion in the country and measures to facilitate investment for foreign investment companies, the delegation expressed keen interest in increasing investment in the future.

CEO Zahabi Group said the steps taken by the prime minister for economic stability in the country were commendable. Expressing full confidence in the government’s investment-friendly policies, the delegation told the prime minister that Zahabi Group's high-end construction project Mubarak Center in Lahore, which had been on hold for the last 15 years, was being launched.

Govt has nothing to do with Broadsheet: PM

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Imran Khan says the PTI government has nothing to do with the Broadsheet issue, as General Pervez Musharraf had signed the contract and later backtracked on it...

www.thenews.com.pk

 

[Nilgiri]

Ok maybe be an actual gutsy man/super chad and close shop on NAB then...surely?

Pakistani constitution + judicial branch ought to handle these things right?

Just thinking out loud on some basics here...folks that are sure-footed and secure in their skin kind of things. National ethos and narrative, that whole dealio.

Is a PM even allowed to say NAB was a mistake to begin with, or is that part of the bouncer questioning before entry to the music chair game party?

Genuinely curious, maybe we can ask mr. all-rounder chad post-retirement when auntie-maryam running the show....lmao.

Wonder if he'll move to UK too for that soapbox spectacle stuff too (joining the cavalcade). KSA these days is a bit too MBS-ey or something for that, things never were the same after lal topi sweet cheeks moment.

@VCheng

 

[adenl]

Paksitan needs a strong man for minimum of 10 years who cleans the whole country out. But this will never be allowed by the powers to be and thus Pakistan will forever remain a corruption infested place. A shame really because the Pakistani people deserve much better.

 

[Nilgiri]

Paksitan needs a strong man for minimum of 10 years who cleans the whole country out.

They did this....3 times (last one of which brought about this whole NAB/NRO/Broadsheet trio).

4th time's the charm?

 

[adenl]

They did this....3 times (last one of which brought about this whole NAB/NRO/Broadsheet trio).

4th time's the charm?

I initially wanted to write 'head-chopper' instead of 'strong man'. Don't think that would be received well...

 

[Nilgiri]

I initially wanted to write 'head-chopper' instead of 'strong man'. Don't think that would be received well...

There's no end to them, if you don't improve two crucial things: psyche and institutions.

Some strong guy, hang-man or head chopper isn't going to do anything at all...other than establish his rule (i.e buy some time for "aint I greatest thing since sliced bread"???) by doing such things.

Then he inevitably becomes a scapegoat after the illegal tenure anyway.....simply by the much longer time in play w.r.t psyche and intuitions (compared to one person-prime-stronk) ...i.e broader "them-elistists" (that also pushed for mr. stronk, had passive-aggressive relationship during tenure and then got bitter at end) realising they got taken for a ride (but cannot or will not introspect themselves on it either).

Really if you unpack NRO/NAB/Broadsheet to its base and core, thats the story of Pakistan predicament summarized and crystallized...."strong"-men and everything.

 

[Costin84]

There's no end to them, if you don't improve two crucial things: psyche and institutions.

Some strong guy, hang-man or head chopper isn't going to do anything at all...other than establish his rule (i.e buy some time for "aint I greatest thing since sliced bread"???) by doing such things.

Then he inevitably becomes a scapegoat after the illegal tenure anyway.....simply by the much longer time in play w.r.t psyche and intuitions (compared to one person-prime-stronk) ...i.e broader "them-elistists" (that also pushed for mr. stronk, had passive-aggressive relationship during tenure and then got bitter at end) realising they got taken for a ride (but cannot or will not introspect themselves on it either).

Really if you unpack NRO/NAB/Broadsheet to its base and core, thats the story of Pakistan predicament summarized and crystallized...."strong"-men and everything.

There's one thing that Pakistan didn't miss since 1947 and that's strong men.
The military has hijacked Pakistan and, like Prussia, the army has a state with the only difference being that most Pakistanis are illiterate and not inclined towards innovation like their 19th century German counterparts.
The Pakistani economic conundrum is unending because the country, and by this I mean it's institutions is basically non existent....there's no taxation, no productivity, no innovation, nothing besides hatred of India and religion.And they're defaulting on the last part to....you've got shias, "accursed" ahmedis, very religious people vs the mildly religious ones,local insurgents, from the Balochs to disgrunted tribesmen in ex FATA....etc.
Pakistan is not built on a uniting ideea but on hate and hate is a short term fuel,not a nation builder, it gets you through 1,2,3, wars on common agreement but it will never build an economy.

 

[Kaptaan]

Ok maybe be an actual gutsy man/super chad and close shop on NAB then...surely?

Pakistani constitution + judicial branch ought to handle these things right?

Just thinking out loud on some basics here...folks that are sure-footed and secure in their skin kind of things. National ethos and narrative, that whole dealio.

Is a PM even allowed to say NAB was a mistake to begin with, or is that part of the bouncer questioning before entry to the music chair game party?

Genuinely curious, maybe we can ask mr. all-rounder chad post-retirement when auntie-maryam running the show....lmao.

Wonder if he'll move to UK too for that soapbox spectacle stuff too (joining the cavalcade). KSA these days is a bit too MBS-ey or something for that, things never were the same after lal topi sweet cheeks moment.

@VCheng

Your just indulging in that sport called 'Pakistan bashing' which appears to be the rage with most Indians. Please keep in mind there is precious little differance in living conditions between Pakistan and India. As I have said before it's not like people cross over from Pakistan across the border and enter India and get hit by the prosperity and development in India. That rickety, corruption ridden structure haas more or less kept pace with India. This is not like the roaring South Korea contrasted with poverty stricken North Korea. Or hi-tec Israel and broken up Syrian next door.

I initially wanted to write 'head-chopper' instead of 'strong man'. Don't think that would be received well...

Your absolutely right. What Pakistan has lacked all along is a strong man in the mould of Ataturk or even Gen Evren or Pinochet of Chile or Bismark of Germany. The reason why every attempt at cleaning the country failed was the person who initiated was not the "head chopper" as you termed it. The best example of this is Musharaf. He justified his coup on extentuating grounds just like Gen Evren in Turkey. But Musharaf began with a clear goal to go after the 200 'targets' but then soon compromised on this. In fact the claim won by Broadsheet is exactly based on this. When Pakistan government cut deals with the 'targets' it denied the chance for Broadsheet to go after those 'targets' and thus lost the 20% comminssion it would have got. The UK court judgement is exactly that. It awarded Broadsheet money lost consequent to it being denied the chance to go after the corrupt. Clearly by judging in favour of Broadsheet it implies that had it not been prevented it would have earned that 20% from the corrupt monies of the targets with biggest being Nawaz Sharif family and thus the fact that they are guilty.

Why would Musharaf do this? This shows he was weak. He could have donme what Gen Evren did. Kill 100s and lock up and torture 1,000s in dark cells. But Musharaf did no such thing. The so called dictator behaved like a dirty, weak politician. He made deals and let Nawaz Sharif off the hook and in fact let him go to live in his luxury hotel in Saudia Arabia.

The tragedy of Pakistan is not that it did never got dictators. It did. But they all turned out to be weak, pathetic little men. If Musharaf had done what Gen. Evren did Pakistan would have been cleaned from the entire dirty, dynastic political class. But you know what happened to Gen. Evren or even Pinochet.

Some strong guy, hang-man or head chopper isn't going to do anything at all...other than establish his rule by doing such things.

I think you need to read about Ataturk, Gen Evren or even Gen Kim Park of South Korea. The problem is not a strong man, but a man who thinks he is a strong man but has the attributes of a weak politician. Real as opposed pretenders.

 

[Kaptaan]

There's one thing that Pakistan didn't miss since 1947 and that's strong men.
The military has hijacked Pakistan and, like Prussia, the army has a state with the only difference being that most Pakistanis are illiterate and not inclined towards innovation like their 19th century German counterparts.
The Pakistani economic conundrum is unending because the country, and by this I mean it's institutions is basically non existent....there's no taxation, no productivity, no innovation, nothing besides hatred of India and religion.And they're defaulting on the last part to....you've got shias, "accursed" ahmedis, very religious people vs the mildly religious ones,local insurgents, from the Balochs to disgrunted tribesmen in ex FATA....etc.
Pakistan is not built on a uniting ideea but on hate and hate is a short term fuel,not a nation builder, it gets you through 1,2,3, wars on common agreement but it will never build an economy.

Sunshine you really have been gorging on propaganda disinformation churned out by Indians. Bravo. Take care you don't drown in it.


@Nilgiri

Pakistan has had pretenders going as 'strong men'. This is what a 'strong man' or a 'head chopper' looks like.

Gen. Kenan Evren​

Former general hailed as a hero at the time of the coup but in 2014 was convicted of crimes against the state and sentenced to life imprisonment.

Kenan Evren, the general who led Turkey’s 1980 military coup that ended years of street clashes between rival left- and right-wing militias but also unleashed a wave of arrests, torture and extrajudicial killings, died on Saturday. He was 97.

Yet 650,000 people were detained in the upheaval and 230,000 people were prosecuted in military courts, according to official figures. About 300 people died in prison, including 171 who died after being tortured.

 

[Costin84]

I do apologise to @Kaptaan for my strong minded views since I do respect him much for years,from my PDF times