Canada Navy Canada Surface Combatant (CSC) Program

[oldcpu]

In it the claim is a BAE 5-inch gun may be chosen to save on weight and space (and integration).
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This is especially true if the River Class has weight issues in the forward part of the warship.

Further, if weight is an issue (and hence potentially leading to consideration to instead procure the BAE 5-inch gun), it entails a different fire control radar than the NA-30S Mk2 as I am not aware of the NA-30S Mk2 ever having been used with a BAE 5-inch gun.

I have read that both Saab CEROS 200 and Mk 160 Gun Computing System (GCS) (where Mk160 is paired with the AN/SPQ-9B radar) are known to have been interfaced to the BAE 5-inch gun.

I note in a speculative comparison between the Saab CEROS 200 and the Mk 160 Gun Computing System (GCS) where Mk160 is paired with the AN/SPQ-9B radar, reveals a disparity in weight and system footprint. The Mk160 + AN/SPQ-9B are much heavier.

I believe the total estimated system weight of the Mk160 GCS + AN/SPQ-9b could be as much as 2,200 kg (where ~1,500 kg of that is below decks) vs only about ~800kg to ~900kg for the Saab CEROS 200 (where maybe ~150 kg is below decks). This is very speculative. It does thou suggest the Mk-160 GCS + AN/SPQ-9B would have a higher weight impact in comparison to the Saab CEROS-200.

So Saab CEROS-200 is likely lighter, but , ... one speculation I have (where speculation is the operative word) is using a Saab CEROS 200 may forfeit the ability to use the BAE 5-inch gun's HVP (hypervelocity projectile) potential functionality for high-end missile defense - but the Mk160 GCS + AN/SQP-9B may provide such capability.
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[Ted Barnes]

A rendering of the Halifax Shipyard with multiple River Class under construction.

 

[oldcpu]

Further, if weight is an issue (and hence potentially leading to consideration to instead procure the BAE 5-inch gun), it entails a different fire control radar than the NA-30S Mk2 as I am not aware of the NA-30S Mk2 ever having been used with a BAE 5-inch gun.

I have read that both Saab CEROS 200 and Mk 160 Gun Computing System (GCS) (where Mk160 is paired with the AN/SPQ-9B radar) are known to have been interfaced to the BAE 5-inch gun.

Following up on the speculative possibility that the Leonardo 127mm gun might be replaced with a much lighter BAE 5-inch gun (so to reduce the weight forward), I tried to dive into looking at what Fire Control radar might be chosen for the River Class destroyer as the Leonardo NA-30S may no longer be suitable for use with a BAE gun. As I noted, one possibility is the Saab CEROS 200 where I believe it has been used with a BAE gun in the following cases:

• New Zealand ANZAC class - Saab CEROS 200 with CMS-330 and a BAE-5-inch Mk-45 Mod 2 gun
• Canadian Halifax class - Saab CEROS 200 with CMS-330 and a Bofors (now BAE Systems AB) 57mm Mk-3 gun
• Thailand Naresuan-class - Saab CEROS 200 with Saab CMS-9LV Mk4 and a BAE 5-inch Mk-45 Mod2 gun.
• Australia ANZAC class - Saab CEROS 200 with Saab Systems CMS-9LV453 Mk3E (acting as AAW/Fire Control core) and a BAE 5-inch Mk-45 Mod 2 gun
• Sweden Visby - Saab CEROS 200 with a Saab 9LV CMS and a Bofors (now BAE Systems AB) 57mm Mk-3 gun
• Finland Hamina - Saab CEROS 200 with a Saab 9LV CMS and a Bofors (now BAE Systems AB) 40mm Mk4 gun

I may have that above information inexact - as it is difficult (when relying on unclassified sources) to be totally exact.

Now the Canadian River Class destroyer is not the only Type-26 class of warship that needs to be aware of potential topside weight issues forward on the warship - where with placement of a VLS forward brings up such need to be careful with weight distribution.

Edit : removed some information that may be factually inaccurate re: RN-Type-26 and RAN-Hunter Class

So Saab CEROS-200 is likely lighter, but , ... one speculation I have (where speculation is the operative word) is using a Saab CEROS 200 may forfeit the ability to use the BAE 5-inch gun's HVP (hypervelocity projectile) potential functionality for high-end missile defense - but the Mk160 GCS + AN/SQP-9B may provide such capability.
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In regards to the USN HVP (hypervelocity projectile), as far as i can determine, an export licence has not been granted to ANY country. Hence this is likely not thus a consideration factor.

 

[oldcpu]

Edit : removed some information that may be factually inaccurate re: RN-Type-26 and RAN-Hunter Class

I was unhappy with my earlier description as to how the RN Type-26 and the RAN Hunter Class frigates were planning to handle the radar sourced firecontrol for their BAE guns ... I thought that useful so to better assess what options the Canadian navy could be considering in the still (IMHO) speculative and hypothetical possibility that the RCN could switch back to a BAE 5-inch gun.

So with that in mind, for the 5-inch BAE gun on the RN City Class and the RAN Hunter Class frigates, my understanding is both the RAN and the RN are adopting non tradition approaches of dedicating a firecontrol radar to the BAE gun. Instead:

- For the Royal Navy’s Type 26 (City-class), fire control is handled by the MIFS Integrated Gunnery System (IGS), which is a software module residing within the ship's BAE CMS-1 (DNA2 architecture). This software runs on the Shared Computing Environment (SCE) Blade Servers, where it integrates digitized target tracks from the Type 997 Artisan 3D radar with environmental data from the EDGE sensor suite (wind, air density, and pressure). To account for barrel conditions, a Muzzle Velocimeter radar mounted on the gun provides real-time velocity data for every round fired, allowing the IGS software to provides continous ballistic solution updates.

- For the Royal Australian Navy’s Hunter-class (currently under development), fire control is managed by the Mk 160 Gun Computing System (GCS), a dedicated hardware cabinet serving as the ballistic "brain" for the Mk 34 Gun Weapon System. Target tracks from the indigenous CEAFAR2 phased-array radar are fed into the Aegis Combat System, with the custom Saab Australian Interface integrating CEAFAR2 with Aegis. The Mk 160 GCS then combines these tracks with meteorological data from EDGE sensors and initial velocity (IV) data from the barrel’s Muzzle Velocimeter to calculate precise train and elevation orders for the BAE Mk 45 gun.

The above is all from unclassified sources, so I could be inaccurate here. However I do see both approaches as unusual, for as I noted, i am used to a dedicated firecontrol radar being assigned to a gun. The USN, for example, on the Arleigh Burke class and their BAE gun, have a dedicated Firecontrol radar (AN/SPQ-9b).