TR Defence Exports & Updates

[Saithan]

I think what we want is a bit consistent delivery instead of something that appears like a random burp

I was hoping the TS1400 would be used in a T129-Y model of sorts. A prototype so we could see and gain experience of the domestic engine in T129 frame.

 

[boredaf]

Bro, quantities on most items there, are the quantities that we need. But to achieve them within that time frame is a bit far fetched.

That's my point mate, TAI has been brilliant at developing the platforms we need but they have been abysmal when it comes to production, and especially keeping up with the promises they make. You gave Kaan as an example, Hürkuş is another and the most recent one. They said they'd deliver 22 first, then it became 15, then 10, then nothing until last month.

That's why I don't trust their production promises at all. And this is without even mentioning other stuff they did just for PR, like that T929 abomination.

 

[Yasar_TR]

That production rate is less due to slowness, but more due to low numbers of helicopters. Which is understandable, not many countries out there buy attack helicopters. Except for AH-64, every modern attack helicopter out there can be classed as export failures by most metrics. AFAIK, TAI didn't face any delays in T129 delivery to any users for the last decade.

Let us start with Nigeria:
Nigeria experienced initial delivery delays for its 6 t129 order. They had to use diplomatic push to kick TAI in the back to get their t129 helicopters in October 2023.

Philippines t129 order:
TAI took the contract for 6 units without confirming availability of export licence for their engines. That delayed initial batch deliveries.
Whereas the contract was supposed to conclude in early 2023 it actually concluded with the delivery of last 2 helicopters in November 2023.

Turkish orders:
Apart from qualification and technical failure delays of initial batches which took time to sort out, the production rate was abysmally slow. Then TAI MD boasted about two helicopters per month production rate. Yet they only managed 7 in a year inspite of the fact that they had 60 units firm orders in hand with an option for further 40 units by 2010 for domestic use only.

 

[Sanchez]

Let us start with Nigeria:
Nigeria experienced initial delivery delays for its 6 t129 order. They had to use diplomatic push to kick TAI in the back to get their t129 helicopters in October 2023.

Philippines t129 order:
TAI took the contract for 6 units without confirming availability of export licence for their engines. That delayed initial batch deliveries.
Whereas the contract was supposed to conclude in early 2023 it actually concluded with the delivery of last 2 helicopters in November 2023.

Turkish orders:
Apart from qualification and technical failure delays of initial batches which took time to sort out, the production rate was abysmally slow. Then TAI MD boasted about two helicopters per month production rate. Yet they only managed 7 in a year inspite of the fact that they had 60 units firm orders in hand with an option for further 40 units by 2010 for domestic use only.

Nigerians are yet to pay for the 2 OPVs they ordered from Dearsan. I'm sure they pushed concessions diplomatically citing operational necessities for the helicopters.

Re Filipino order, Covid delays and Filipinos being slow to get the export license for the engines made up that delay. End user gets the export license, not the manufacturer.

I wouldn't brush these two to TAI specifically.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Nigerians are yet to pay for the 2 OPVs they ordered from Dearsan. I'm sure they pushed concessions diplomatically citing operational necessities for the helicopters.

Re Filipino order, Covid delays and Filipinos being slow to get the export license for the engines made up that delay. End user gets the export license, not the manufacturer.

I wouldn't brush these two to TAI specifically.

Bro, you need to check that again.
TAI, the manufacturer exporting the helicopter—must apply for and secure the U.S. export licenses for the engines, as the U.S. grants them based on end-user approval of the receiving country.

The Manufacturer (TAI): As the exporter and builder of the T129 ATAK, TAI (along with Turkish procurement officials) must request and hold the U.S. export clearance from the U.S. State Department to ship the aircraft containing American LHTEC T800-4A engines
The foreign buyer does not apply for the license itself, but the U.S. government evaluates and approves or denies the license based on the identity of the end-user country.

I remember same happening with Pakistan. We had to obtain the licences from US. And it was refused.

The president of TAI announced in April that his company had won U.S. export licenses to sell a batch of six helicopter gunships to the Philippines.

Turkey to export T129 helos to Philippines despite block on Pakistani order

A Turkish company has won U.S. export licenses to sell a batch of helicopters to the Philippines. But only a month earlier, Turkey’s persistent requests for the same export license to sell the same helicopters to Pakistan were going nowhere.

www.defensenews.com

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Is it me or is tusas a bit lost. No way they manage to reach those numbers.
View attachment 83615

Except KAAN evrything else is possible

 

[Burberryswine]

Except KAAN evrything else is possible

By 2035 150+ Kaan is possible 40 B10 and B20s that only requires 110 B30s lets say production for the B30 starts in 2031 with a rate of 36 aircraft per year 36x4 would make 144 aircraft we have more than a year of head room to reach that 150+ number of course production delays, engine delays are imminent, P1 still hasnt taken first flight but I believe it is still possible

 

[Saithan]

Doesn't that mean that products relying on export permit are our biggest problems ?

As long as we don't use our own engines and sensors etc. We will always run into this problem.

 

[Huelague]

That production rate is less due to slowness, but more due to low numbers of helicopters. Which is understandable, not many countries out there buy attack helicopters. Except for AH-64, every modern attack helicopter out there can be classed as export failures by most metrics. AFAIK, TAI didn't face any delays in T129 delivery to any users for the last decade.

The Ukraine war lessoned us that helis are subsceptible against ucav. Increasing the production rate makes less sense. Thats why we halt ATAK-2.