TR Economy & Updates

[selim]

In Germany there are jobs where you earn ridiculous amount of salary.
But, there's not much of these jobs and competition is vast.
In my big company there are people earning 10.000 to 30.000 € every month, but they're the minority distorting per person GDP statistics.
Most of people living in Germany will earn 1.700 - 2.000 € in a factory.
Working at Amazon in a non-manager role in Germany will get you exactly 1.700-2.000 €.
Anything more you've to do night-shifts or working Sundays and holidays.

With 1.700 - 2.000 € you can only live a happy life if you have a small apartment (1 room, 35 m²), no car, or if you're willing to pay for a car you'll drive some rust bucket.

A 3 room apartment in my city costs over 1.000 € every month, that's already more than half than what average-Hans earns as salary.
If I wanht to drive the bus I have to pay 27 Lira (one way), I can get beef meat for 100 Lira per KG, but I wouldn't even feed that meat to my dog ! Most Germans will eat chicken instead ! Or Döner-Yufka for 50-60 Lira, which they can afford max. 2-3 times a week.
Don't let me get started with prices for petrol-fuel , heating in apartment, electricity or beef and fish which seems to hyper-inflate every 2nd nonth.

You need to have Bachelor / Master and even if you have that qualification you still need to have luck or you're low-wage slave in Germany. It's no paradise in Germany, although German State is top-dog heavyweight in EU.
Believe me !

 

[Manomed]

Who starves to death ?
If you were starving you would reorient your internet-provider fee to purchasing food !

Bruh housing is Increasing everyday electritcy bills are getting out of hand food prices rising up all the time Yeah you are good in germany If you love turkey and erdogan much come live here stop with your lies about how germany bad @Fighter_35 check this german turk complaining about germnay

You live there comfy without having to worry about your future damn You guys doesn't even hear 5 hour of arabic nonsense that is in here thats a plus

"Sustainability is key, but there's no sustainability with strong TL" sheep will follow this and will live in germany to make germans angry against turks with their crimes there

 

[Manomed]

Türkçe yazıyorum çünkü Tüm türk arkadaşlara sesleniyorum Bu adamlar bizim ölmemizi istiyor adam diyorki güçsüz olsun TL falan Bunlara kalsa cebimizde ki 2 kuruş ekmek parası akpye gidicek Almanyadaki güzel evlerinde oturup Bizim çektiğimiz rezaleti görmek istemiyorlar Markete gidiyoruz 2-3 parça eşya 150 tl tutuyor et falan filan hikaye sağlık sistemi çökmüş. Paramız değer etmiyor her gün %50 %100 zamlar geliyor BEN DİYORUM ALMANYADA YAŞAYAN TÜRKLER BİZ ÖLSEK BİLE UMURLARINDA OLMAZ Onlar orada eurolarını alıp burada fakir türk halkının önünde yerler Çok seviyorsan türkiyeyi eurolarını bırak gel BAN YİYECEKSEM DE BURADA TÜRK ARKADAŞLARA GERÇEKLERİ SÖYLEYEREK YEMEK DAHA İYİDİR adam bana internetin var fakir değilsin diyor mentaliteye bakın BAKIN GÖRÜN NE KADAR İĞRENÇ OLDUKLARINI Biz burada sürünür iken onlar hala bizim iyi durumda olduğumuzu o lağam kokan yalancı ağızları ile söylüyorlar bakın onlara göre yalan her şey bizlerde yalancıyız Tanrı sizinde belanızı veriri yakındır almanyadaki türkler orada rahatlık çekmenizin bitmesine az kaldı orada da alman halkının huzurunu kaçırdığınız için yollanacaksınız geri buraya çifte vatandaşlığınızıda iptal edeceğiz Burada yaşamadan burası hakkında konuşursanız bir daha sonunuz kötü olur Ban yiyeceksem de doğruları söyleyerek yiyeyim

I'm writing in Turkish because I'm calling out to all my Turkish friends These guys want us to die, the man says, weak, TL is good The health system has collapsed. Our money is not worth anything, 50% 100% raises are coming every day to gas electricty etc I SAY TURKS LIVING IN GERMANY DO NOT CARE EVEN IF WE DIE They take their euros there and eat here in front of poor Turkish people If you love turkey so much, leave your euros, come I might get banned, by telling Turkish friends the truth, man. You have internet, they say you are not poor, look at the mentality SEE SEE HOW DISGUSTING THEY ARE While we're creeping here, they're still saying with their stinking, liar mouths that we're in good shape look according to them, everything is a lie, we are also liars He stayed there Soon you will be sent back to turkey for disturbing the peace of the German people. We will cancel your dual citizenship here too.

burama kadar geldi yeter artık sürekli kötülüyorlar gel yaşa burada o zaman

 

[Olcayto]

Well as someone who has moved from the Netherlands to Turkey I should be able to tell the difference.

A family of 4 people, who earns minimum wage in the Netherlands lives just below the poverty line.

A family of 4 People, who earns minimum wage in Turkey lives just below the hunger line and way below the poverty line.

The people in Turkey change their daily diet because of this, so they can survive. Meat of any kind is luxury and milk products are rare as well.

 

[TheInsider]

Bruh housing is Increasing everyday electritcy bills are getting out of hand food prices rising up all the time Yeah you are good in germany If you love turkey and erdogan much come live here stop with your lies about how germany bad @Fighter_35 check this german turk complaining about germnay

You live there comfy without having to worry about your future damn You guys doesn't even hear 5 hour of arabic nonsense that is in here thats a plus

"Sustainability is key, but there's no sustainability with strong TL" sheep will follow this and will live in germany to make germans angry against turks with their crimes there

You are right probably an additional several million people will die directly and indirectly because of this economic model. (malnutrition, bad working conditions, and occupational diseases, psychological meltdowns and depression, etc) The same thing but on a larger scale happened in China.

I agree that Turkiye should be a production and export-oriented economy but this should have been handled way better. We ran a very strong TL policy for more than a decade. This was a huge mistake. And finally, when we return to a more production optimized economy we should have targeted inflation first rather than the interest rate. Economic priority should have been controlling the inflation first, lowering the interest rate, and increasing TL/Dollar ratio in a controlled manner to an optimal value. Our real sector is doing so above expectations that with a little bit of luck we might get out of this pinch regardless but this doesn't mean AKP did it right. In fact, the real sector is also fighting AKP economic policies.

 

[Anastasius]

You are right probably an additional several million people will die directly and indirectly because of this economic model. (malnutrition, bad working conditions, and occupational diseases, psychological meltdowns and depression, etc) The same thing but on a larger scale happened in China.

I agree that Turkiye should be a production and export-oriented economy but this should have been handled way better. We ran a very strong TL policy for more than a decade. This was a huge mistake. And finally, when we return to a more production optimized economy we should have targeted inflation first rather than the interest rate. Economic priority should have been controlling the inflation first, lowering the interest rate, and increasing TL/Dollar ratio in a controlled manner to an optimal value. Our real sector is doing so above expectations that with a little bit of luck we might get out of this pinch regardless but this doesn't mean AKP did it right. In fact, the real sector is also fighting AKP economic policies.

So you admit that millions of people will likely die because of this insane policy but still believe that the government shouldn't do anything to fix this insanity, like say, letting the currency's value increase again?

Bruh, I don't wanna be insulting or anything but you sound borderline sociopathic saying stuff like this. I won't be surprised if you get a ton of flack here for posting this so just brace yourself.

 

[TheInsider]

So you admit that millions of people will likely die because of this insane policy but still believe that the government shouldn't do anything to fix this insanity, like say, letting the currency's value increase again?

Bruh, I don't wanna be insulting or anything but you sound borderline sociopathic saying stuff like this. I won't be surprised if you get a ton of flack here for posting this so just brace yourself.

This is not about the value of the currency it is about the implementation of that policy. What the government did on a grand scale is not inherently wrong. How they did it on the other hand is wrong. I already explained how they should have done this above.

I agree that Turkiye should be a production and export-oriented economy but this should have been handled way better. We ran a very strong TL policy for more than a decade. This was a huge mistake. And finally, when we return to a more production optimized economy we should have targeted inflation first rather than the interest rate. Economic priority should have been controlling the inflation first, lowering the interest rate, and increasing TL/Dollar ratio in a controlled manner to an optimal value. Our real sector is doing so above expectations that with a little bit of luck we might get out of this pinch regardless but this doesn't mean AKP did it right. In fact, the real sector is also fighting AKP economic policies.

 

[Anastasius]

This is not about the value of the currency it is about the implementation of that policy. What the government did on a grand scale is not inherently wrong. How they did it on the other hand is wrong. I already explained how they should have done this above.

I am aware but it seems like even though you acknowledge the problems with the current approach you still think it's OK to keep proceeding on the same path instead of possibly calling a halt and allowing for some recovery first.

 

[TheInsider]

I am aware but it seems like even though you acknowledge the problems with the current approach you still think it's OK to keep proceeding on the same path instead of possibly calling a halt and allowing for some recovery first.

I still think the TR should be an export-oriented production economy but should transition to an export-oriented economy in an appropriate way with the right policies implemented correctly.

 

[Fighter_35]

Bruh housing is Increasing everyday electritcy bills are getting out of hand food prices rising up all the time Yeah you are good in germany If you love turkey and erdogan much come live here stop with your lies about how germany bad @Fighter_35 check this german turk complaining about germnay

You live there comfy without having to worry about your future damn You guys doesn't even hear 5 hour of arabic nonsense that is in here thats a plus

"Sustainability is key, but there's no sustainability with strong TL" sheep will follow this and will live in germany to make germans angry against turks with their crimes there

Those are really faceless!!
Even he tells rent is 1000 euro ,half of most people's earning!! Idiot does not know, in Istanbul you can not find a 3 room flat for rent almost for all of minimum wage!!
He even declared he has to pay 27 Lear's for bus in a day!! Idiot does not say 2,5 Euros!! In Istanbul people pay 10-15 tl in a day to go to work!!
Those people are really shameless!!

 

[karajlo]

can we have civilized discussion...it seams to me some people are too involved in politics...this is turkish forum but it's in in english and you won't win too much votes for your party here calling people names

 

[Xenon54]

WoW. The Erdogan-haters are now recruting child crisis-actors at street to force old people to madness.

Like Atakan, another CHP child-crisis-actor. Where the heck is he gone?

Yeah its all acting, the crisis doesnt even exist.

 

[Xenon54]

Well as someone who has moved from the Netherlands to Turkey I should be able to tell the difference.

A family of 4 people, who earns minimum wage in the Netherlands lives just below the poverty line.

A family of 4 People, who earns minimum wage in Turkey lives just below the hunger line and way below the poverty line.

The people in Turkey change their daily diet because of this, so they can survive. Meat of any kind is luxury and milk products are rare as well.

Our guys who live in europe are somehow oblivious to those facts.
Guys who claim that europe is just as bad as Turkey then move back, at least food and weather is better in Turkey, what are you waiting for?

 

[Olcayto]

Our guys who live in europe are somehow oblivious to those facts.
Guys who claim that europe is just as bad as Turkey then move back, at least food and weather is better in Turkey, what are you waiting for?

Yes, move back just like I did, but then every thing will be quiet

 

[Fighter_35]

can we have civilized discussion...it seams to me some people are too involved in politics...this is turkish forum but it's in in english and you won't win too much votes for your party here calling people names

You want civilized discussion?? Maybe some first should comment with logic and honor!!! This is Turkish sub forum, anything affecting economy can be discussed!, or let's say should be discussed!! The ones commenting for the worse of Turkish people deserve to be behaved like that!!

 

[Fighter_35]

Who starves to death ?
If you were starving you would reorient your internet-provider fee to purchasing food !

If you feel so bad at Germany ,and if you think Turkish economy is good and will be better, why do you live there??
Do not post rubbish things here, people are not idiots!! And if strong tl is unsustainable ,so euro should be unsustainable right!! Why do you live in a country with a currency with unsustainable economy??
You should not be given permission to live in Europe!!

 

[Xenon54]

Sustainability is key, but there's no sustainability with strong TL.
In 2011 the TL / $ exchange rate was around 1.80, but Turkey ran over 60 Billion $ trade-deficit.
By 2019 with successive weakening of TL Turkey had 21 billion $ trade surplus.
Surplus went into deficit again in 2020 but only because of negative Corona-Tourism.

Turkey Trade Balance 1960-2023

External balance on goods and services (formerly resource balance) equals exports of goods and services minus imports of goods and services (previously nonfactor services). Data are in current U.S. dollars.

www.macrotrends.net

Turkey needs to follow export-growth based development model like China / Germany (running trade surplus) instead of USA / France model running large to very large trade deficits.
Together with Sakarya gas in Black Sea (substituting energy imports) and export-based growth model (weak TL) Turkey will be fine in mid- or end of this decade. Until then, unfortunately, there'll be some economic pain for population not having the high-life instagram-lifestyle.
Germany doesn't pay top-salaries also, there's a vast low-wage sector but they've very low unemployment numbers, high trade-surpluses, are running the show in EU because they've vast financial power backed by their export economy, and travelilng even in rural Germany you'll see one industrial factory after another.
I can go more deep explaining what happened in Germany after millenium with some reforms (initiated by Schröder) basically establishing low-wage economy in Germany. Instead of devaluating their currency (they couldn't because of €) they "devaluated" salaries in Germany.

Lira is only 1/10th worth of 20 years ago, do you guys enjoy your sustainable economy?
Look at Dollar, Euro, CHF, Yen all currencies from countries with unsustainable economies compared to TL.

 

[selim]

Lira is only 1/10th worth of 20 years ago, do you guys enjoy your sustainable economy?
Look at Dollar, Euro, CHF, Yen all currencies from countries with unsustainable economies compared to TL.

Germany (€), Japan (Yen), Switzerland (CHF) etc. invest huge sums into R&D, there's innovation around every corner be it in top-class universities or world-leading companies.
These are fully industrialized countries not for 2-3 years but for decades ! Just imagine how much money is in their innovation cycle each years ongoing for decades.
What these countries produce will always be in demand on world-market until someone shows up who can gain market-shares from them at their expense.
Just like Turkey is now doing in high-tech weapon sales.
Let's see where automobile industry is going with e-vehicles and new heavyweights like Tesla, Chinese brands etc. and see whether Volkswagen will be able to pay same wages in their German or EU-outsourced factories in 10 years time !
When Tesla first showed-up German media was laughing at Tesla, now they're shitting their pants from the arised competition.

For now German economic model is sustainable.
But their is no godly law declaring that German, Swiss economy will be successful forever as other nations including Turkey push into high-tech sector.

Medium and high-tech exports (% manufactured exports) - Turkiye, Germany, Japan, Switzerland | Data

Medium and high-tech exports (% manufactured exports) - Turkiye, Germany, Japan, Switzerland from The World Bank: Data

data.worldbank.org

Turkey is not at the development level of Germany or Switzerland.
EU-Turkey customs union started 1995 and EU is Turkey's biggest trading partner.
Turkey ran trade-deficits with EU continously.
How sustainable is that model I ask you ?
In 2019 with weakening TL Turkey has achieved a small trade surplus with EU.
Unlike EU the population in Turkey is growing 1 million each year, Turkey has to create jobs.
How you'll be creating jobs when you import more than you export ?

You want strong TL at this stage of Turkey's development you agree with Turkey running chronic deficits, Turkey becoming more dependant on outside than getting more self-sufficient.

Turkey-EU - international trade in goods statistics - Statistics Explained

EU statistics provide an analysis of the international trade in goods between the EU and Turkey, by member state and by type of goods exchanged.

ec.europa.eu

And when you say "Lira is only 1/10th worth of 20 years ago" then you have to remember that Turkey is a much different country than 20 years ago.
Turkey exported 28 billion $ worth of goods in 2000.
Textiles being the biggest export items, and Anatolia being mainly an agricultural country with electricity outages and more 3rd-world vibes the more east you go into Anatolia. Same with literacy rates !

https://oec.world/en/profile/country/tur?yearSelector1=exportGrowthYear6

So, my question to you is simple:
How are you going to lift Turkey to the next level with strong TL given Turkey is fully integrated into world-markets and Turkey has developed so many new trade relationships ?
You can't sell machinery to Africa where Africans say to themselves "Hell, I can pay the extra 15% and get the proven German or Italian machine ! " and on the way bankrupt yourself because you're running chronic deficits with strong TL in any statistical category.

 

[Adıvar]

In Germany there are jobs where you earn ridiculous amount of salary.
But, there's not much of these jobs and competition is vast.
In my big company there are people earning 10.000 to 30.000 € every month, but they're the minority distorting per person GDP statistics.
Most of people living in Germany will earn 1.700 - 2.000 € in a factory.
Working at Amazon in a non-manager role in Germany will get you exactly 1.700-2.000 €.
Anything more you've to do night-shifts or working Sundays and holidays.

With 1.700 - 2.000 € you can only live a happy life if you have a small apartment (1 room, 35 m²), no car, or if you're willing to pay for a car you'll drive some rust bucket.

A 3 room apartment in my city costs over 1.000 € every month, that's already more than half than what average-Hans earns as salary.
If I wanht to drive the bus I have to pay 27 Lira (one way), I can get beef meat for 100 Lira per KG, but I wouldn't even feed that meat to my dog ! Most Germans will eat chicken instead ! Or Döner-Yufka for 50-60 Lira, which they can afford max. 2-3 times a week.
Don't let me get started with prices for petrol-fuel , heating in apartment, electricity or beef and fish which seems to hyper-inflate every 2nd nonth.

You need to have Bachelor / Master and even if you have that qualification you still need to have luck or you're low-wage slave in Germany. It's no paradise in Germany, although German State is top-dog heavyweight in EU.
Believe me !

Now i feel sorry for you. Why not come back to Turkey and live a better life here?

 

[selim]

Strong TL is the worst thing that can happen to Turkey's economy. It would make us permanently trenched in the middle income trap. Let's be honest. We can't expect to live in the standards northern Europeans live. Siemens was founded in 1847. Do you know what companies we had in those times? Bursa Iskender. Yeah, and that's 20 years later. Boeing was building planes in World War 1. You see how far ahead those countries were? And they're constantly innovating ever since. So how do you expect us to catch up with those guys if we had a strong lira? By punishing domestic industry? Wake up. We have to run faster than them. Weak lira makes imports(especially high tech) expensive and makes local projects attractive. You can't do much with $100 million dollars in the US but that money can do wonders here. Make the lira strong and you'll see the companies immediately stop investing in the national peojects and buy the foreign products to use as their subsystems. Why take the risk of failure of developing a product when you can buy it cheap from outside? Companies don't think broad. They're after money and the risk assesment will dictate that you buy the cheap foreign product. Do that for long enough and you're country will just be a consumer market with huge trade deficit. Then they'll put a yoke on your neck and dictate the terms. Why? Because you're so dependent on dollar, they can start control you by controlling the dollar flow in and out of your country. You just loaded the gun handed to the enemy.

So, for a growing population, for a growing economy strong lira is bad. Think of it like a pre-revenue company. What you want the most is not the immediate revenue but growth. Because we have the potential. The western countries don't. That's why they're trying to maximize the profit. It's a different game we're playing.

Of course, non of these justifies the non-sensicle decisions Erdogan has been making. He put the economy in an incredibly vulnerable position. It should've been done in a trustable and foreseeable way.

Turkey's trade-deficit with USA peaked in 2011 with a staggering deficit of 9.4 billion $.
2021 (first 9 months) Turkey is recording trade-surplus of 3.7 billion $.
It's probably the best data ever in US-Turkish trade relationship.

International Trade

www.census.gov