TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Pilatino]

Everybody wrong, enemy? I didnt say such things, What are you talking about?

Bruh are you testing my nerves? Don't you remember your sentence?

 

[Terrain]

Baykar is not our "enemy". It is as Turkish as it gets. And them not playing is beneficial for our military industrial complex.
People riling up against Baykar are doing so under the guise of their foreign masters. They want Baykar to suffocate and die because it is much harder to conduct sabotage against a private venture like Baykar as opposed to a foundation/state company like TAI.

Even if Baykar did as you described (which is an absurd proposition in of itself, and i hate you making me write about such boll*cks) and pushed TAI into irrelevance in the fixed-wing aircraft, TAI won't just fizzle out into nothingness. They are THE company on rotary-wing aircraft development in Turkiye. They will be A-OK.

Also, AFAIK, 5th gen aircraft are designed with upgradability in mind. So KAAN won't be outdated from the get-go, its impossible for it to be.

They think I am a bad guy for saying this but I don't do this for the imaginary foreign connections. So for you to take my word in to the zone of divide and conquer is bad intentioned.

All I am doing is trying to fight for every penny of our tax payers money. Not that I think Baykar is bad for doing business but because I think TAI is purposefully not doing business. Can any one of you tell me why is Baykar trying to get in to the helicopter sector with cezeri by subtly by passing traditional helicopter design of vertical take off and will soon build a heavy version of the Cezeri that will make the old style helicopters obsolete and TAI out of business? While, TAI is busy trying to re invent the already invented wheel. Who is this genius making Selcuk wear Hipster pants and TAI (public) not.

If only our people could see why these people cheer for a private company and not theirs(TAI). Maybe because Baykar has connection's to those on top and those on top have divided us so much that when ever one criticize Baykar those that are in connection or voted for the ones on top has to go in a defense mode of a private company(WHAT) and not for their company. Maybe that is why we are chained to TV's to not see these games, but I understand because no one is free and life is always in someone else's control and the chains wont get unshackled and we keep seeing the same people eat our share of life.

 

[Ahlatshah]

Bruh are you testing my nerves? Don't you remember your sentence?

You just mixed up imo. But be nice ok

 

[Heartbang]

I think TAI is purposefully not doing business.

Are you taking the piss? They are currently working on:

• developing T-929 ATAK-2(to compete with Apache attack helicopters)
• developing T-925 10-ton utility helicopter(to compete with Blackhawks)
• delivering T-625 Gökbey(to replace the Hueys in the Turkish air force inventory)
• delivering T70 Blackhawks to various branches of Turkish armed forces
• manufacturing T-129 ATAK's to many customers around the world
• developing Hürkuş-2
• modernizing several platforms of the Turkish air force at the same time, including but not limited to the F-16's.(Özgür program)
• developing Anka-3 (which is an excellent counterpoint to your very 1st take, but that's neither here nor there)
• Developing KAAN
• Developing Hürjet
• Developing several satellites for both Turkiye and her allies.

If these are not enough "work" for you, then I suggest you lift your lazy ass and come back from the UK to lend a hand.

why is Baykar trying to get in to the helicopter sector with cezeri by subtly by passing traditional helicopter design of vertical take off and will soon build a heavy version of the Cezeri

if i remember correctly, Selçuk Bayraktar's PhD is on automatic take-off and landing systems for rotary wing aircraft. They also started business with helicopters before pivoting to fixed-wing aircraft. I think these projects are for keeping that know-how alive and well inside the company.
I don't think he'll seriously go through with Cezeri project. If he ever considered that project seriously he'd talk about it more. Instead his focus is on Fergani and its spacetugs.
Quadrotor urban people carriers are a sketchy concept TBH. And if I can see the flaws of that from my point of view, he's probably seeing it too.

If only our people could see why these people cheer for a private company and not theirs(TAI

I don't know where you've been hanging out but in this forum we don't differentiate between Baykar and TAI. both of these companies and their accomplishments are the (red)apple of our collective eyes.

Maybe because Baykar has connection's to those on top and those on top have divided us so much that when ever one criticize Baykar those that are in connection or voted for the ones on top has to go in a defense mode of a private company(WHAT) and not for their company.

Everybody in any kind of MIC has connections to those on top. Thats the way it is.
Every single senator, representative and secretary in the US state apparatus has ties with the US military industrial complex. They often take oodles of "help" to fund their election bids.
The current Secretary of Defense of the United states, Lloyd Austin, was on the Raytheon board of directors before he got the job.

Get off your high horse.

 

[Kitra]

They think limitations are ok hopefully it wouldn't be the end of the main field of a company.
All I want is TAI of 2030 to not be shocked when it saw Baykar producing a 6th gen unmanned heavy fighter and SSB had to cancel KAAN because of budget allocation and KAAN being obsolete. Most will think I am a bad guy and are in defense mode and are numb to what is coming but all I wanted was for you lot to see why is that like that. I respect you for having an opinion and you might be right but can you see where I am coming from Zafer?

No, most people do not think you are dumb but maybe too young and unexperianced, a.k.a delikanli in the true sense.

Let me explain; we all, including me agree that unmanned drone will dominate the future war. However, we do not know if that future is in 5, 10, 20 or 50 years from now. Personally, i believe in 10-15y seem a reasonable assumption before a drone willl have an edge over f35/f22/Kaan/.... So by developing a high performance maned aircraft today we may lose some money but we will not risk our country to be without an air-superiority aircraft, be it manned or unmanned before that future is here. We also gain a lot of experience.

Further, I have already explained, TIA Anka 3 is the platform you are asking for anyway. It will become an integral part of 6th generation airforce, both as bomber and fighter.

 

[Huelague]

They think limitations are ok hopefully it wouldn't be the end of the main field of a company.
All I want is TAI of 2030 to not be shocked when it saw Baykar producing a 6th gen unmanned heavy fighter and SSB had to cancel KAAN because of budget allocation and KAAN being obsolete. Most will think I am a bad guy and are in defense mode and are numb to what is coming but all I wanted was for you lot to see why is that like that. I respect you for having an opinion and you might be right but can you see where I am coming from Zafer?

An international aviation giant with estimated more than 24.000 employee by 2030, can not to be shocked or surprised that easily.

 

[Terrain]

You think I'm on a high horse when I'm trying to increase the size of your(public???) and my(public) horse, and that's the thing you don't see because you are too in to political side defending.

All I am doing is showing you that TAI is purposefully left on side lines by not doing what it should do which is hit every tone of the industry without holding back for a private company.

Tai with it's traditional helicopter design will become obsolete just look at these:

Lockhead Martin

Agusta Westland Project Zero

Airbus

Darpa's X planes

These are all probably coming in 10 to 20 years

With Cezeri you know Baykar is trying to build Airbus or Darpa like future helicopter projects that afterwards will create: Cezeri B, Cezeri C, Cezeri 2. That will be matching all of TAI's helicopter product line and weight class.

Not that it's a bad thing but tell me why isn't TAI wearing that hipster pant.

Kizilelma A, Kizilelma B, Kizilelma C, Kizilelma 2 - You know it's coming to take TFX on
Akinci A, Akinci B, Akinci C - It took on Aksungur.
TB2 , TB2 S - Why isn't TAI in this field.
TB3 - It took on Anka 1, he should have left this class for TAI but he didn't.
Bayraktar DIHA - Why isn't TAI in this field???
Bayraktar mini iha - Why isn't TAI in this field????
Kemankes - It took on Roketsan why???

Fergani - Will match all TAI satalite and spaceship projects but wait who gave him that technology we know the TAI got it's technologies by cooperating with the Italians, the Brits, the French, the Germans and the Americans. But who gave these techs to Baykar? Oh wait Selcuk has a PHD and TAI doesn't with thousands of its engineers.

Do you smell something fishy.

 

[Huelague]

Are you taking the piss? They are currently working on:

• developing T-929 ATAK-2(to compete with Apache attack helicopters)
• developing T-925 10-ton utility helicopter(to compete with Blackhawks)
• delivering T-625 Gökbey(to replace the Hueys in the Turkish air force inventory)
• delivering T70 Blackhawks to various branches of Turkish armed forces
• manufacturing T-129 ATAK's to many customers around the world
• developing Hürkuş-2
• modernizing several platforms of the Turkish air force at the same time, including but not limited to the F-16's.(Özgür program)
• developing Anka-3 (which is an excellent counterpoint to your very 1st take, but that's neither here nor there)
• Developing KAAN
• Developing Hürjet
• Developing several satellites for both Turkiye and her allies.

Dont forget to add the news, that THY wants to purchase 600 planes from Airbus and Boeing, and what that means for TAI.

 

[Terrain]

Although I write these casually you people are trying to derail and defame my good intentions. Much love.

 

[Heartbang]

These are all probably coming in 10 to 20 years

Most of the X-plane projects tend to end up in the bin.

With Cezeri you know Baykar is trying to build Airbus or Darpa like future helicopter projects that afterwards will create: Cezeri B, Cezeri C, Cezeri 2. That will be matching all of TAI's helicopter product line and weight class while TAI watching on side lines.

I'm going to say it real simple: there won't be any Cezeri. The concept is stupid and everyone knows it. Including Selçuk Bayraktar.

None of the platforms you listed are in direct competition to each other. All of their use cases are different in a subtle way.

Yatagans and kitchen knives are, by definition, same thing. You don't cook with a yatagan, do ya?

 

[Terrain]

An international aviation giant with estimated more than 24.000 employee by 2030, can not to be shocked or surprised that easily.

It won't, but doing things in time is more critical because tenders are lost just like that.

 

[Huelague]

It won't, but doing things in time is more critical because tenders are lost just like that.

I bet, some of the 24.000 employee are aware of that.

 

[Zafer]

You think I'm on a high horse when I'm trying to increase the size of your(public???) and my(public) horse, and that's the thing you don't see because you are too in to political side defending.

All I am doing is showing you that TAI is purposefully left on side lines by not doing what it should do which is hit every tone of the industry without holding back for a private company.

Tai with it's traditional helicopter design will become obsolete just look at these:

Lockhead Martin

Agusta Westland Project Zero

Airbus

Darpa's X planes

These are all probably coming in 10 to 20 years

With Cezeri you know Baykar is trying to build Airbus or Darpa like future helicopter projects that afterwards will create: Cezeri B, Cezeri C, Cezeri 2. That will be matching all of TAI's helicopter product line and weight class.

Not that it's a bad thing but tell me why isn't TAI wearing that hipster pant.

Kizilelma A, Kizilelma B, Kizilelma C, Kizilelma 2 - You know it's coming to take TFX on
Akinci A, Akinci B, Akinci C - It took on Aksungur.
TB2 , TB2 S - Why isn't TAI in this field.
TB3 - It took on Anka 1, he should have left this class for TAI but he didn't.
Bayraktar DIHA - Why isn't TAI in this field???
Bayraktar mini iha - Why isn't TAI in this field????
Kemankes - It took on Roketsan why???

Fergani - Will match all TAI satalite and spaceship projects but wait who gave him that technology we know the TAI got it's technologies by cooperating with the Italians, the Brits, the French, the Germans and the Americans. But who gave these techs to Baykar? Oh wait Selcuk has a PHD and TAI doesn't with thousands of its engineers.

Do you smell something fishy.

All of the above projects that you have given pictures of are dead projects.

Temel Kotil has already said that after finishing development of classical helicopters they will look into compound helicopters. TAI have been behind Helicopter Design competition of Teknofest events. I personally submitted my compound helicopter design a few years back.

I had a short dialogue with Temel Kotil at an event in Istanbul a few years back, suggesting him to make flying cars (with me) and sell them, in the short answer he had the time to give me he asked if there is really a demand for such vehicles. He has a point as only 5 out of 500 designs that are out there will likely make it to a selling product.

TAI made its own DIHA which is a small helicopter but then they didn't move forward with it as it was based on the Mosquito helicopter.

In aviation they say "To make a small fortune in aviation you start with a big one". Meaning most of aviation projects naturally fail and very few become successful. You can't simply jump on to every project.

What you are suggesting is to crush one competitor using the other one, that is simply hoping for a disaster to happen.

 

[Terrain]

To think that future of helicopter will stay the same is being gullible and numb to seeing these and already flying Boeing V22 and Bell V-280 vehicles.
I wanted you to see where things are going not trying to throw stones at Baykar, I want them to succeed but not by taking advantage of our company(TAI) Zafer.
If only the majority could see why these policies are stopping us from seeing or achieving things and why some have to struggle to get off the bed while others fly through life.

 

[Heartbang]

Tell all where Baykar got it's Stealth Technology

Stealth is not some "Coca-cola recipe" kind of magic ingredient.
It is a series of principles to keep in mind while designing your aircraft so it would bounce the radar energy it receives to elsewhere instead of the radar receiver itself.
Anyone with the necessary knowledge can dish out some rough design of a stealth aircraft in Solidworks and verifiy the merits of their design in Matlab in a couple of months. A year at the worst.

Is this your best counter-argument? Comparing me to some talking head?
Pathetic.

 

[Heartbang]

I want them to succeed but not by taking advantage of our company(TAI) Zafer.
If only the majority could see why these policies are stopping us from seeing or achieving things and why some have to struggle to get off the bed while others fly through life.

Nobody is taking advantage of no one. You are just plain wrong.

I suggest you take some time off and come back with a more receptive mindset.

 

[Huelague]

Let us be proud to have a Turkish equivalent of Boeing and LM.

 

[what]

@Terrain I see what you're trying to say and I do hope too that TAI is getting the best products in the market. It is the number one company in Turkey in aviation and will stay so.

No offense against Baykar but Czeri or space tugs will not change that. Baykar is still as of now a 2 or 3 products company. They just had better a bit better luck and run with their current drone programs. TAI is dozens of projects at once and fairly sure they have some new surprise up their sleeves too.

If we roughly calculate how many KAANs will be ordered by 80-90m € per piece by an estimated 100 KAAN, that will be easily 100bln € in the accounts of TAI as the main contractor over the next 10 years. Count in all the different helicopters that will be ordered in masses. TAI will be a double digit billion € revenue company within the next couple of years.

TAI is doing good, they will do good, they have a certain capacity that is limited by the number of engineers they can hire - so I'm not worried.

Think of all the projects they can launch in the future with their own means and cash, both Aksungur and Hürjet were projects with no official funding from the government. The though that arises from all that cash incoming to invest in new products is exciting me for the future of TAI - government supported or not.

 

[Zafer]

Boeing V22 and Bell V-280 v

The predecessor of V-280 the Osprey has been around for ages already. There is a big aviation community in Türkiye now and people know what is what largely thanks to Teknofest and current helicopter projects.

 

[Terrain]

Stealth is not some "Coca-cola recipe" kind of magic ingredient.
It is a series of principles to keep in mind while designing your aircraft so it would bounce the radar energy it receives to elsewhere instead of the radar receiver itself.
Anyone with the necessary knowledge can dish out some rough design of a stealth aircraft in Solidworks and verifiy the merits of their design in Matlab in a couple of months. A year at the worst.

Is this your best counter-argument? Comparing me to some talking head?
Pathetic.

Some are sending moderators on me by flagging every post of mine especially you Zafer as you are creating the perception that I'm the bad guy for defending the public interest.
My two post were removed as a reply to you Heartbang, one was a picture of comical ali and the other just a smiley face. I thought it was funny just like how you called me a cretian(it's not removed), but oppression is unnecessary as it shows weakness in a civilized non violent conversation so keep it.
Those with powers shouldn't be offended as the majority should side with the public and you guys who are against me too. Just because I'm countering something that doesn't mean I should be hated. I respect the rules, and you Zafer as I haven't flagged one post of yours when all you did was flag every post of mine and I won't as a sign of peace. Bless!

As for your stealth argument, you are a funny guy Heartbang really funny but I respect you for being that guy that clouds the water with laughing gas. Who is this smart guy thinking people are not clever enough, but I understand because nobody want's to be an enemy of those in power and that's why our people suffer that's why those that steal, steal again and I feel for all because we are helpless and at the end we realize that suffering is the nature of life but it shouldn't be done by those in power to the ones that voted for them to fight public and it's interest by dividing and taking everything for themselves.