TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

[Ripley]

We have seen this happening repeatedly in recent decades. Thanks to its neutered diplomatic corpse by its own government, Turkey is coming to every negotiation table with the zero sum approach which is unacceptable in diplomacy. And we all know the score.
You can not demand everything from everybody on every occasion, every time. The Turkish government demanded again so much that other parties had to leave the table. That’s where Turkey keeps on failing.

Saying that, I will move on to a particular case of Sweden.
The Swedish government needs to understand that this is a ‘security club’ and its members hold ‘exclusive’ rights. Free door policy and private invitations won’t hold water unless it meets the safety and security concerns of one or some of its members. After all, it is a security alliance. It is per se withholding its membership: the Swedish government creating a safe haven for an internationally recognized terrorist organization and its offshoot sub organizations which only aims to create a free state of its own at the expense of sovereign Turkish territory and to achieve this end has not hesitated to kill civilians in thousands from various ethnic backgrounds over the years.
This, regardless of upholding the Swedish constitution or any academic debate on universally accepted definition of freedom and democracy, is the sole reason behind being vetoed by Turkey. You can not nestle any harm doers that breaches and paralyzes the security and safety of a member.
I like to show just a small example to all our members and readers here the sincerity of the Turkish government(s) against terrorism.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_68372.htm

This is the link to the Centres of Excellence (COEs) spread all over NATO with specific missions. These centers are mainly sponsored by member nations and there are 28 of these COEs right now. Guess where COE Defense Against Terrorism is located? Ankara, Turkey. It’s accredited in 2006 and back in the day there were three centers but now Ankara remains the sole center of defense against terrorism within NATO. This, alone, can give some hint to any outsider how Turkey is committed against terrorism and its strict stance against any candidate nation harboring such organizations within the organization.
Such conflicting security - or even in some cases purely political - interests have arisen before and resulted in a candidate's application being withheld. But always resolved at the satisfaction of the member state. Not on domestic laws of involved parties or international laws even where they were applicable.

I am not expecting Sweden to change its constitution or give up any bit of its freedom and democracy. It’s nobody’s but Swedes’ business. But I surely expect that the Swedish government must satisfy Turkey’s exclusive security and safety rights as a current member of the organization.

 

[tracer]

We have seen this happening repeatedly in recent decades. Thanks to its neutered diplomatic corpse by its own government, Turkey is coming to every negotiation table with the zero sum approach which is unacceptable in diplomacy. And we all know the score.
You can not demand everything from everybody on every occasion, every time. The Turkish government demanded again so much that other parties had to leave the table. That’s where Turkey keeps on failing.

Saying that, I will move on to a particular case of Sweden.
The Swedish government needs to understand that this is a ‘security club’ and its members hold ‘exclusive’ rights. Free door policy and private invitations won’t hold water unless it meets the safety and security concerns of one or some of its members. After all, it is a security alliance. It is per se withholding its membership: the Swedish government creating a safe haven for an internationally recognized terrorist organization and its offshoot sub organizations which only aims to create a free state of its own at the expense of sovereign Turkish territory and to achieve this end has not hesitated to kill civilians in thousands from various ethnic backgrounds over the years.
This, regardless of upholding the Swedish constitution or any academic debate on universally accepted definition of freedom and democracy, is the sole reason behind being vetoed by Turkey. You can not nestle any harm doers that breaches and paralyzes the security and safety of a member.
I like to show just a small example to all our members and readers here the sincerity of the Turkish government(s) against terrorism.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_68372.htm

This is the link to the Centres of Excellence (COEs) spread all over NATO with specific missions. These centers are mainly sponsored by member nations and there are 28 of these COEs right now. Guess where COE Defense Against Terrorism is located? Ankara, Turkey. It’s accredited in 2006 and back in the day there were three centers but now Ankara remains the sole center of defense against terrorism within NATO. This, alone, can give some hint to any outsider how Turkey is committed against terrorism and its strict stance against any candidate nation harboring such organizations within the organization.
Such conflicting security - or even in some cases purely political - interests have arisen before and resulted in a candidate's application being withheld. But always resolved at the satisfaction of the member state. Not on domestic laws of involved parties or international laws even where they were applicable.

I am not expecting Sweden to change its constitution or give up any bit of its freedom and democracy. It’s nobody’s but Swedes’ business. But I surely expect that the Swedish government must satisfy Turkey’s exclusive security and safety rights as a current member of the organization.

Totally valid points. And I think they will finally hammer something out to that effect.
As long as an extradition follows the rules set out in the extradition treaties they should and will be handed over, no discussion.

 

[GoatsMilk]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618267831379820545

Sweden shot itself in the foot, allowing Russian pawns to sabotage the process.

yeah and we sabotaged Turkiyes arguments, why allow the Russians to keep winning over such obvious things. Ok, Russia may have played sweden, does that mean we get played too?

Our aim has to be to reveal the real face of the PKK to the common european, only then will the governments of such nations start feeling uncomfortable. But as along as the PKK narrative remains pretty girls fighting jihadis we continue to suffer. This is where i cannot fault the european citizen, as far as he is aware the PKK is a good organisation and Turkiye is run by an islamofascist nutjob.

And truth be told if we are getting this angry at annoyed at swedens support for PKK shitheads, well the russians killed our people in syria. They bombed the shit out of syrian civilians forcing millions to flee into Turkiye destabilising Turkiye itself. They have done this many times before to the Ottomans, its an old trick of theirs.

Concerning the PKK, sweden is yet to put their army in front of the PKK to protect the PKK directly like the Russians have done countless times in Syria against us, let alone all the history of those criminals supporting them. Then we have Russia directly opposing in every field imaginable from north africa, to the balkans, into the middle, across the cacucuses and right into central asia. And this is just scratching the surface.

Turks you got to be consistent and highly nuanced. On the one hand we want to get annoyed at Sweden on the other hand Turks on here are asking ridiclious questions as to "has anyone ever asked why we should support Ukraine against Russia."

The aim has to be to do whats good for Turkiye, in essence to win. We keep losing over really simple shit. We don't want to be at odds with europe, we only lose from it. The Turkish population of Europe is bigger then half the populations of said european countries, we cannot afford to keep the relationship antagonistic, we have to win diplomatically and politically, this cannot be achieved with AK party.

 

[Barry]

Some great discussion over the last couple of pages.

 

[Ryder]

Not to mention chang frick is jewish from his mothers side.

Jews play a big role in the spread of Islamophobia while bitching about anti semitism.

You always think right wingers or the far right but who actually bank rolls them to engage this sort of diatribe?

Jewish community has a big problem with islamophobia and racism that pretty much make white supremacists look like school children.

Now the Swedes are copping most of the hate.

What Turkiye needs to is not squander its chances for populist garbage. Negotiate and make a deal that works for them.

 

[Heartbang]

Jews play a big role in the spread of Islamophobia while bitching about anti semitism.

Let the Muslims and the Christians fight each other to extinction, so the Jews could inherit the earth. Clever, actually.

 

[Afif]

Let the Muslims and the Christians fight each other to extinction, so the Jews could inherit the earth. Clever, actually.

This is not how it works actually, i mean, come on! we are in 21th century.
No sane policy makers seriously thinks in these terms anymore. Specially when we live in an Era of modern Nation States.

 

[Heartbang]

No sane policy makers seriously thinks in these terms anymore.

Policy makers don't even think these days. They just do the bidding of their masters in the WEF, who's a judeo-american circlejerk club.

 

[Lool]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618267831379820545

Sweden shot itself in the foot, allowing Russian pawns to sabotage the process.

That is why I said that Erdogan did well in indefinitely postponing the talks
Let them suffer until Putin steamroll Sweden. It seems that Putin is gradually recovering in Ukraine during the last month


With the current events, Iam sure that after Ukraine, Putin will go after both Finlamd and Sweden if they arent still in NATO

 

[Ripley]

Some great discussion over the last couple of pages.

Here, here.
This forum, when the members keep their cool, brings out the best in anybody and end result is beautiful

 

[Cypro]

The US is 100% right this time, Ruskies hijacked / seized the leased planes and freely flying to TR with stolen aircraft, getting spare parts, service, fuel etc.. and doing business freely... USA can sanction Turkish aviation industry rightfully.. Don't help terrorists while you are blaming west for supporting terrorists.

WSJ News Exclusive | U.S. Leans on Turkey to End Russian Flights With American-Made Planes

U.S. officials are leaning on Turkey to stop Russian airlines from flying American-made airplanes to and from the country, said officials familiar with the talks.

www.wsj.com

U.S. Leans on Turkey to End Russian Flights With American-Made Planes​

ISTANBUL—U.S. officials are pressuring Turkey to stop Russian airlines from flying American-made airplanes to and from the country, said officials familiar with the talks, signaling a new push in Washington to persuade countries to enforce sanctions imposed on Moscow after its invasion of Ukraine last year.

Senior American officials warned last month that Turkish individuals are at risk of jail time, fines, loss of export privileges and other measures if they provide services like refueling and spare parts to U.S.-made planes flying to and from Russia and Belarus in violation of export controls imposed last year, the officials said. Assistant Secretary of Commerce Thea Rozman Kendler delivered the message to Turkish officials during a December visit to Turkey, the officials said.

The warning to Turkey is a key test of whether the U.S. and its allies can succeed in isolating Russia over the long term, or whether Moscow can find a way to continue economic activity with the help of third countries that are central to the Kremlin’s strategy of finding partners outside of the West. The Turkish Foreign Ministry didn’t respond to a request for comment on the warning.

“At a certain point, they will have to take an enforcement-related action,” said Emily Kilcrease, a former deputy assistant U.S. trade representative and currently a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security in Washington. “Otherwise the whole kind of thing falls apart, if it turns out they have knowledge of violations and they haven’t been able to do anything to address it.”

A Department of Commerce spokesman said the agency couldn’t comment on specifics. He said the agency’s Office of Export Enforcement recently warned overseas aviation companies about complying with U.S. export controls involving the servicing of Russian, Belarusian and Iranian commercial aircraft.

“This action and ongoing engagement like Assistant Secretary Kendler’s visit is important to U.S. efforts to ensure understanding of our controls, encourage partnership and compliance, and to share information,” the spokesman said.

The Biden administration imposed export controls barring Russia from using U.S.-made aircraft last February in response to the attack on Ukraine. The export controls now bar any aircraft made in the U.S. or those that include more than 25% U.S.-controlled parts from flying into Russia or Belarus without a license issued by the Commerce Department’s Bureau of Industry and Security.

 

[what]

We've been way too soft on the Russians. Even now when they are weak and in need of any lifeline, we still dont give them what they deserve.

 

[Nilgiri]

Hell no i used to be Anti Erdogan but now thanks to ahaber.

Im 100% Erdogang all the way.

I enjoy watching ahaber with my grandma who constantly yells at the tv.

I dunno what this is all about, but I just wanted to say your gran sounds wonderful and to pass my regards on to her.

Always enjoy your grandparents while you have them... I sure miss mine.

 

[GoatsMilk]

We've been way too soft on the Russians. Even now when they are weak and in need of any lifeline, we still dont give them what they deserve.

I think when all is said and done AK party would have played the game so bad that Turkiye will end up being booted from NATO. Then AK party will continue the sell that russia is our best friend.

 

[Heartbang]

The US is 100% right this time, Ruskies hijacked / seized the leased planes and freely flying to TR with stolen aircraft, getting spare parts, service, fuel etc.. and doing business freely... USA can sanction Turkish aviation industry rightfully.. Don't help terrorists while you are blaming west for supporting terrorists.

WSJ News Exclusive | U.S. Leans on Turkey to End Russian Flights With American-Made Planes

U.S. officials are leaning on Turkey to stop Russian airlines from flying American-made airplanes to and from the country, said officials familiar with the talks.

www.wsj.com

U.S. Leans on Turkey to End Russian Flights With American-Made Planes​

ISTANBUL—U.S. officials are pressuring Turkey to stop Russian airlines from flying American-made airplanes to and from the country, said officials familiar with the talks, signaling a new push in Washington to persuade countries to enforce sanctions imposed on Moscow after its invasion of Ukraine last year.

Senior American officials warned last month that Turkish individuals are at risk of jail time, fines, loss of export privileges and other measures if they provide services like refueling and spare parts to U.S.-made planes flying to and from Russia and Belarus in violation of export controls imposed last year, the officials said. Assistant Secretary of Commerce Thea Rozman Kendler delivered the message to Turkish officials during a December visit to Turkey, the officials said.

The warning to Turkey is a key test of whether the U.S. and its allies can succeed in isolating Russia over the long term, or whether Moscow can find a way to continue economic activity with the help of third countries that are central to the Kremlin’s strategy of finding partners outside of the West. The Turkish Foreign Ministry didn’t respond to a request for comment on the warning.

“At a certain point, they will have to take an enforcement-related action,” said Emily Kilcrease, a former deputy assistant U.S. trade representative and currently a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security in Washington. “Otherwise the whole kind of thing falls apart, if it turns out they have knowledge of violations and they haven’t been able to do anything to address it.”

A Department of Commerce spokesman said the agency couldn’t comment on specifics. He said the agency’s Office of Export Enforcement recently warned overseas aviation companies about complying with U.S. export controls involving the servicing of Russian, Belarusian and Iranian commercial aircraft.

“This action and ongoing engagement like Assistant Secretary Kendler’s visit is important to U.S. efforts to ensure understanding of our controls, encourage partnership and compliance, and to share information,” the spokesman said.

The Biden administration imposed export controls barring Russia from using U.S.-made aircraft last February in response to the attack on Ukraine. The export controls now bar any aircraft made in the U.S. or those that include more than 25% U.S.-controlled parts from flying into Russia or Belarus without a license issued by the Commerce Department’s Bureau of Industry and Security.

They have a point in this one. Let the Turkish airlines be the sole airline for those trips and milk the everloving shit out of the fleeing rich Russians.

 

[Lool]

The US is 100% right this time, Ruskies hijacked / seized the leased planes and freely flying to TR with stolen aircraft, getting spare parts, service, fuel etc.. and doing business freely... USA can sanction Turkish aviation industry rightfully.. Don't help terrorists while you are blaming west for supporting terrorists.

WSJ News Exclusive | U.S. Leans on Turkey to End Russian Flights With American-Made Planes

U.S. officials are leaning on Turkey to stop Russian airlines from flying American-made airplanes to and from the country, said officials familiar with the talks.

www.wsj.com

U.S. Leans on Turkey to End Russian Flights With American-Made Planes​

ISTANBUL—U.S. officials are pressuring Turkey to stop Russian airlines from flying American-made airplanes to and from the country, said officials familiar with the talks, signaling a new push in Washington to persuade countries to enforce sanctions imposed on Moscow after its invasion of Ukraine last year.

Senior American officials warned last month that Turkish individuals are at risk of jail time, fines, loss of export privileges and other measures if they provide services like refueling and spare parts to U.S.-made planes flying to and from Russia and Belarus in violation of export controls imposed last year, the officials said. Assistant Secretary of Commerce Thea Rozman Kendler delivered the message to Turkish officials during a December visit to Turkey, the officials said.

The warning to Turkey is a key test of whether the U.S. and its allies can succeed in isolating Russia over the long term, or whether Moscow can find a way to continue economic activity with the help of third countries that are central to the Kremlin’s strategy of finding partners outside of the West. The Turkish Foreign Ministry didn’t respond to a request for comment on the warning.

“At a certain point, they will have to take an enforcement-related action,” said Emily Kilcrease, a former deputy assistant U.S. trade representative and currently a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security in Washington. “Otherwise the whole kind of thing falls apart, if it turns out they have knowledge of violations and they haven’t been able to do anything to address it.”

A Department of Commerce spokesman said the agency couldn’t comment on specifics. He said the agency’s Office of Export Enforcement recently warned overseas aviation companies about complying with U.S. export controls involving the servicing of Russian, Belarusian and Iranian commercial aircraft.

“This action and ongoing engagement like Assistant Secretary Kendler’s visit is important to U.S. efforts to ensure understanding of our controls, encourage partnership and compliance, and to share information,” the spokesman said.

The Biden administration imposed export controls barring Russia from using U.S.-made aircraft last February in response to the attack on Ukraine. The export controls now bar any aircraft made in the U.S. or those that include more than 25% U.S.-controlled parts from flying into Russia or Belarus without a license issued by the Commerce Department’s Bureau of Industry and Security.

Dont worry
Now that the US warned Turkey, Turkey will eventually comply

This trend is similar to that of the Russian Mir payment system. At first, in order to facilitate exchange with Russia, Turkey allowed all of its banks to use the Mir payment system with Russia; however, when the US warned Turkish banks and govt, all Turkish oragnisations have complied since it isnt worth getting sanctioned for Russia

By the next week or two, Turkey will probably announce a ban on Russian leased aircrafts

 

[Ryder]

The US is 100% right this time, Ruskies hijacked / seized the leased planes and freely flying to TR with stolen aircraft, getting spare parts, service, fuel etc.. and doing business freely... USA can sanction Turkish aviation industry rightfully.. Don't help terrorists while you are blaming west for supporting terrorists.

WSJ News Exclusive | U.S. Leans on Turkey to End Russian Flights With American-Made Planes

U.S. officials are leaning on Turkey to stop Russian airlines from flying American-made airplanes to and from the country, said officials familiar with the talks.

www.wsj.com

U.S. Leans on Turkey to End Russian Flights With American-Made Planes​

ISTANBUL—U.S. officials are pressuring Turkey to stop Russian airlines from flying American-made airplanes to and from the country, said officials familiar with the talks, signaling a new push in Washington to persuade countries to enforce sanctions imposed on Moscow after its invasion of Ukraine last year.

Senior American officials warned last month that Turkish individuals are at risk of jail time, fines, loss of export privileges and other measures if they provide services like refueling and spare parts to U.S.-made planes flying to and from Russia and Belarus in violation of export controls imposed last year, the officials said. Assistant Secretary of Commerce Thea Rozman Kendler delivered the message to Turkish officials during a December visit to Turkey, the officials said.

The warning to Turkey is a key test of whether the U.S. and its allies can succeed in isolating Russia over the long term, or whether Moscow can find a way to continue economic activity with the help of third countries that are central to the Kremlin’s strategy of finding partners outside of the West. The Turkish Foreign Ministry didn’t respond to a request for comment on the warning.

“At a certain point, they will have to take an enforcement-related action,” said Emily Kilcrease, a former deputy assistant U.S. trade representative and currently a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security in Washington. “Otherwise the whole kind of thing falls apart, if it turns out they have knowledge of violations and they haven’t been able to do anything to address it.”

A Department of Commerce spokesman said the agency couldn’t comment on specifics. He said the agency’s Office of Export Enforcement recently warned overseas aviation companies about complying with U.S. export controls involving the servicing of Russian, Belarusian and Iranian commercial aircraft.

“This action and ongoing engagement like Assistant Secretary Kendler’s visit is important to U.S. efforts to ensure understanding of our controls, encourage partnership and compliance, and to share information,” the spokesman said.

The Biden administration imposed export controls barring Russia from using U.S.-made aircraft last February in response to the attack on Ukraine. The export controls now bar any aircraft made in the U.S. or those that include more than 25% U.S.-controlled parts from flying into Russia or Belarus without a license issued by the Commerce Department’s Bureau of Industry and Security.

Hijacked lol

Americans sold that shit to them.

Mind you it was the Americans who gave the coordinates to the Russians which got Dudayev killed.

After the Soviets collapsed who made the Russians recover at least to an extent its the Americans.

Americans cant decide who we get to trade with since they work with terrorists and prop proxies.

Turkiye actually closed the Bosphorous to the Russians before the war the West critised the Turks for getting too close to Ukraine because they believed we were destabilising the region by selling weapons to the Ukrainians.

Nobody should believe the Americans and their hypocrisy.

I do agree with people who say Russia needs to be hit hard. We should not be too soft with them while at the same time we cant trust the Americans.

 

[No Name]

LOL, I knew this was gonna happen. Erdogan is not a stupid man but he is poison for Turkey. He needs to leave.

but who will replace him? The CHP is a no-go, and it will be worse for turkey if things go back to how they used to be which is the reason for the anti-Erdogan rhetoric. the biggest things that are criticised about Erdogan are things that are in Turkey's national interest minus the S400s.

 

[Lool]

Wooow
They are literally threatening Turkey
Turkey should never allow Sweden to join NATO

So they will keep burning the most religious book in Turkey on the most religious day, Friday, until Turkey allows Sweden to join NATO? Wow! It feels as If Turkey is the one asking for help and not Sweden

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618962880900042752

 

[what]

Getting outraged about irrelevant things in foreign policy (i.e. one individual burning a religious book), that's the perfect pre-election storm. Perfectly orchestrated thanks to Russia and the government by utilizing the situation.