TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

[contricusc]

There was almost no policy of including them into the European society,most countries just created getto's(lack of interest),discrimination,second class citizen etc.
So,no inclusiveness.

It is easy to lay the blame on the host countries for not including them in their societies, but from the host country’s perspective, it is the fault of the foreigners who didn’t want to assimilate and segregated themselves in ghettos.

There is a lot of intra-European migration because of the free movement withing the EU, but you don’t have the same problem with lack of integration as you have with people from outside Europe. Maybe this is because people from outside Europe have a different culture and don’t want to integrate, not because they are not welcome.

To be fair, I would say the blame lies somewhere in the middle. The host countries are surely more reluctant when it comes to non-European migrants, but also the migrants are more prone to mingle among themselves and refuse to integrate into the local populatiom.

I’m just pointing out that from a European perspective, you see many people from outside Europe migrating to Europe, and failing to integrate. On the other hand, Europeans who migrate outside Europe always integrate into the local countries and are generally a net benefit to their economies, as they generally are above average in income and consumption, and they are usually more educated than the average person.

Considering the above, it is easy to conclude that Europeans are not the problem. And when you see open hostility towards Europe from the same people who moved there, the animosity and distrust can only go up. And this creates a vicious cycle, as those migrants get treated unfairly because of that fear and animosity, and they turn even more radical against the host countries.

It’s a really bad situation that is very hard to fix at this moment, because the amount of non-European migrants who arrived in Europe in the last decades was too high for the host countries to be able to assimilate in a healthy manner. And once the migrants feel discriminated and hated, they behave in a way that will only reinforce those feelings, and the situation spirals out of control.

I think that Turks in Europe would have integrated much better if it was not for the wave of migrants from Africa, Middle East and Asia that flooded Europe lately, which created hard feelings towards everyone non-European, and especially from an islamic country.

 

[Sanchez]

To be fair, I would say the blame lies somewhere in the middle.

There's a reason why 3rd generation university educated German Turks with high paying jobs are leaving their home countries and returning back to Turkey. I have 3 cousins that were born in Europe, 2 settled in Antalya last year. They are highly educated girls, both speaking 2 languages on top of German and Turkish. They don't view themselves as Germans, but Turks. They don't see themselves as a part of Germany, which I do find interesting. Turks in US, Canada, or even Netherlands don't usually feel the same and are much more integrated. Germany fucked up big time integrating their Turkish minority to their national myth. And with the country going further far right, rest will feel the heat as well.

I dont think it is bad. Trump has needed and will always need an enemy or adversary. As unstable as he is, so long as he doesnt aim for us, it is all good. we shouldnt mess with "crazy of village"

Oh, definitely. It's best if he just doesn't think about us unless it's absolutely necessary for the next 4 years.

 

[TR_123456]

I think that Turks in Europe would have integrated much better if it was not for the wave of migrants from Africa, Middle East and Asia that flooded Europe lately, which created hard feelings towards everyone non-European, and especially from an islamic country.

Turks came here in the 60's and 70's,you are comparing apples and oranges.
And who accepted all those migrants from Africa,Asia and whatnot with their strange cultures,and who let them keep their cultures and habits instead of integrating them into society?
In the UK they created a different society with their own customs clothes culture etc,in Belgium(Brussels),you cant enter certain neighborhoods as a native,in Berlin try going to an Arab(Palestinians,Syrians,Iraqis) neighborhood as a none Arab,in France whole cities have changed to Africa.
Who did all this?
Turks were all modern in the 60's 70's 80's,it all started from the 90's on when all the rest started coming and fucked up the whole system.
Again,who's fault is that?

 

[contricusc]

Not to mention that discrimination and racism is extreme in many of them. For example look at how the "gypsies" are treated in most of europe. Yet no media ever provokes these discords between them, yet all of them without fail will talk about the "Kurds".

The gypsies are not discriminated against in Europe. There are actually many programs (most of them funded with EU money) that are directed to help their communities. There are even instances of positive discrimination for gypsies, like reserved spots at universities.

The problems lies mostly with their own culture, as they tend to dislike education and enjoy more criminal ways of life like stealing, begging, prostitution, etc. (not all of them of course, but many of them do).

I've visited quite a few countries in europe and the racism in many of them is bordering fanatical. In a place like the czech republic outside of Prague if your brown skinned that is enough for no one to give you a job.

Outside of big cities which are more multi-cultural, people have less experience with non-white people, so they tend to mistrust them, be afraid of them. There is obviously a higher level of racism and xenophobia in rural areas than in big cities, but this applies to every country and culture, not only to Europe.

 

[Sanchez]

The gypsies are not discriminated against in Europe. There are actually many programs (most of them funded with EU money) that are directed to help their communities.

Oh come on. This is even less true than saying Syrian refugees are not discriminated against in Turkey.

 

[contricusc]

Turks were all modern in the 60's 70's 80's,it all started from the 90's on when all the rest started coming and fucked up the whole system.
Again,who's fault is that?

This is exactly what I was saying. Turks integrated just fine, but when the wave of Africans and Arabs flooded Europe, resentment grew towards every non-European, and the Turks were caught in the middle. Most uneducated Europeans can’t diffeentiate between Turks, Arabs, Africans, etc., and label everyone as “muslims”.

I agree that Western countries (especially UK, Belgium and France) did very poorly at integrating non-European migrants. Their cultures are very incompatible, and their welfare systems were prone to abuse, resulting in the mess we see today.

But for the local population, the present situation is bad, and they hate everybody for it, including those who are not responsible. It is sad, but it is what it is.

 

[contricusc]

Germany fucked up big time integrating their Turkish minority to their national myth. And with the country going further far right, rest will feel the heat as well.

I think it is very hard to integrate in Germany, regardless of where you come from. They have a very different culture compared to Balkan and Mediterranean nations. I know many Romanians also migrated to Germany initially after we joined the EU, but after a while most of them left towards friendlier countries like UK, Spain and Italy.

I think it is very hard for a foreigner to become and feel German.

 

[TR_123456]

But for the local population, the present situation is bad, and they hate everybody for it, including those who are not responsible. It is sad, but it is what it is.

In the Netherlands they know the difference between Turks and the rest and thats why they act accordingly.