TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

[YeşilVatan]

Why so much racism against white Europeans? And you’re not the only one in this forum who mentions “white Europeans” as some evil race that hates “brown people”…

The crazy thing is that most Turks are also white, and those from the European side of Turkey are technically white Europeans…

Well they did try to partition our country and attempted to commit genocide upon us all with their local christian proxies, which was half successful and costed us most of the Balkans and caused untold suffering and humiliation to millions of Turks.

But the real reason is interpersonal I think. Any Turk with self respect, a functional mind and enough experience with westerners comes to the inevitable conclusion that they don't really think we are human, let alone equals. Average westerner, regardless of political or religious orientation, would probably see the annihilation of my nation as a positive thing. It's mostly a subconscious thing. My people put the fear of god in westerners so hard, whenever Turkey is the hot topic their entire kumbaya liberal worldview disappears and they turn into Günther, the Viennese shoemaker from 1560. Which in turn informs their policymaking.

Not to mention the West actually poses a threat still, as opposed to Russia or Iran.

 

[TR_123456]

Well they did try to partition our country and attempted to commit genocide upon us all with their local christian proxies, which was half successful and costed us most of the Balkans and caused untold suffering and humiliation to millions of Turks.

They tried that because as Churchil said :

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property – either as a child, a wife, or a concubine – must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the faith: all know how to die but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.”​

So,it had to do with us being Muslim(in those days Muslims had a different image) which means it has nothing to do with us being white brown or black.

But the real reason is interpersonal I think. Any Turk with self respect, a functional mind and enough experience with westerners comes to the inevitable conclusion that they don't really think we are human, let alone equals. Average westerner, regardless of political or religious orientation, would probably see the annihilation of my nation as a positive thing. It's mostly a subconscious thing. My people put the fear of god in westerners so hard, whenever Turkey is the hot topic their entire kumbaya liberal worldview disappears and they turn into Günther, the Viennese shoemaker from 1560. Which in turn informs their policymaking.

Thats bs,it is about the fear of the Turk,the conquerer,the warior breed.
If you would be living in Western Europe,you would have noticed that nobody would want trouble with Turks because Turks dont fuck around when push comes to shove.
Why when they talk about Muslim terrorists they never talk about Turks?
They dont see us as Muslim terrorists.

 

[contricusc]

But the real reason is interpersonal I think. Any Turk with self respect, a functional mind and enough experience with westerners comes to the inevitable conclusion that they don't really think we are human, let alone equals.

This is really crazy talk, and it can’t be further from the truth. Yes, there are alwys some idiots who think that way, but those idiots probably think the same about 90% of ethnicities and people.

Average westerner, regardless of political or religious orientation, would probably see the annihilation of my nation as a positive thing.

This is another false statement detached from reality. How do you explain the fact that when you had that terrible earthquake, European countries were the first to rush with help?

Also, if Europeans hated you so much, you wouldn’t be part of UEFA or compete at the Eurovision. The fact that even Azerbaidjan is part of these European competitions shows that most Europeans see you as European.

The reason why some idiots in Europe may hate you is because there have been many problems lately with fundamentalist muslims (from other countries, not turks), and those who are uneducated and lack knowledge tend to put all muslims in a single basket. But even in this case, it has nothing to do with skin color, because Turks have the same skin color like many “white Europeans” (italians, greeks, spaniards look very similar to turks). The Portuguese, which are Western European, are generally of a darker skin tone than Turks.

 

[Iskander]

This is another false statement detached from reality. How do you explain the fact that when you had that terrible earthquake, European countries were the first to rush with help?

When Europeans rushed to help Turkey, they arrived at the disaster area and saw Armenian rescuers who were the most «merciful» to the Turks

 

[Ryder]

It is said the Air bases that were planning to be used by Turkiye have been bombed by Israel.

I think its T4 and Palmyra.

Basically the terrorist Zionist entity do not want Turkiye and are willing to use force to back it up.

I really hope Turkiye has a game plan.

 

[ADMusa]

It is said the Air bases that were planning to be used by Turkiye have been bombed by Israel.

I think its T4 and Palmyra.

Basically the terrorist Zionist entity do not want Turkiye and are willing to use force to back it up.

I really hope Turkiye has a game plan.

This is exactly why leaders like Erdogan are God's gift to the oppressed. Turkiye is more talented than Israel. I trust the Turks to come up with an effective game plan. I think this is what will likely happen.
Erdogan stabilizes the protests in Turkiye.
He tells Syria's leaders to be patient and hold their fire
Israel has bombed, not occupied places Turkiye intends to build military bases. Fine. Turkiye should deploy anti-aircraft systems and its airfoce in parts of Syria that are safe and then continue to expand from there.
Israel's only option to stop a Turkish deployment in Syria is to occupy all of Syria - a current impossibility.

 

[Ryder]

This is exactly why leaders like Erdogan are God's gift to the oppressed. Turkiye is more talented than Israel. I trust the Turks to come up with an effective game plan. I think this is what will likely happen.
Erdogan stabilizes the protests in Turkiye.
He tells Syria's leaders to be patient and hold their fire
Israel has bombed, not occupied places Turkiye intends to build military bases. Fine. Turkiye should deploy anti-aircraft systems and its airfoce in parts of Syria that are safe and then continue to expand from there.
Israel's only option to stop a Turkish deployment in Syria is to occupy all of Syria - a current impossibility.

Airbases can be built close to the Turkish border.

Which is still an advantage. Israel is fighting on too many fronts. They really they think they are unstoppable.

Turkiye has time on its side while Israel going to sink itself even more.

 

[Iskander]

Azerbaijan has decided to invest $2 billion in Pakistan's defense and oil and gas sector.
Meanwhile, the brotherly country needs not even 20 billion dollars, but perhaps more than 200 billion dollars. However, no one is going to do this. Those who can - China, the IMF, the UAE - are not interested in this. And countries friendly to Pakistan do not have such opportunities. The exception is Saudi Arabia. It recently announced its readiness to invest a whopping $600 billion. But not in Muslim Pakistan, which needs it most, but in the United States. (At the same time, I would like to especially note that I am not going to belittle the colossal humanitarian aid that the Saudis provide to all Muslim countries in need, including Pakistan).
Following it, as if competing with it, the UAE named a cosmic investment amount - $1.5 trillion!
Not in Pakistan, but in the United States.
So much for the Ummah!

 

[Ryder]

Azerbaijan has decided to invest $2 billion in Pakistan's defense and oil and gas sector. Meanwhile, the brotherly country needs not $20 billion, but maybe $200 billion. However, no one is going to do this. Those who can - China, the IMF, the UAE - are not interested in this. And countries friendly to Pakistan do not have such opportunities. The exception is Saudi Arabia. It recently announced its readiness to invest a whopping $600 billion. But not in Muslim Pakistan, which needs it most, but in the United States. (At the same time, I would like to especially note that I am not going to belittle the colossal humanitarian aid that the Saudis provide to all Muslim countries in need, including Pakistan).
Following it, as if competing with it, the UAE named a cosmic investment amount - $1.5 trillion!
Not in Pakistan, but in the United States.
So much for the Ummah!

The day when poverty was considered a righteous virtue in the Muslim Ummah.

Was a disaster and a consequence.

Us Muslims should take responsibility at the same time Western Colonialism also has to be blamed.

Concentrating money and wealth to a small elite who were basically there puppets. Corruption and poverty go hand in hand.

 

[Khagan1923]

Not a single Turkmen in the new syrian government cabinet. A group making up 15-20% of Syria's population gets no voice.

Iraqi Turkmen's get abandoned too.

Where are all the trolls?

But what would you expect from a "Turkish" government that is trying to erase the Turkish identity itself.

 

[Sanchez]

A group making up 15-20% of Syria's population gets no voice

At some point we will need to have a non political talk about demographics of Iraq and Syria and how many Turkmen there are. I don't think anyone knows the real numbers, but it sure is not 20%.

Other than that, Erdogan government have already shown in Iraq that they are more than ready to throw the Turkmen under the bus to achieve better relations with KRG.

 

[Anastasius]

It might've been 15-20% but it's probably less now given how much they have suffered at the hands of ISIS, PKK and Assadists (meanwhile certain apparently oppressed minorities have grown in number. How odd). I wish Azerbaijan had done more, especially for the Iraqi Turkmen given that they are culturally closest to us (Syrian Turkmen are closer to Turkiye) but expecting Ilham to look further than his wallet is like praying for a miracle.

Azerbaijan has decided to invest $2 billion in Pakistan's defense and oil and gas sector.
Meanwhile, the brotherly country needs not even 20 billion dollars, but perhaps more than 200 billion dollars. However, no one is going to do this. Those who can - China, the IMF, the UAE - are not interested in this. And countries friendly to Pakistan do not have such opportunities. The exception is Saudi Arabia. It recently announced its readiness to invest a whopping $600 billion. But not in Muslim Pakistan, which needs it most, but in the United States. (At the same time, I would like to especially note that I am not going to belittle the colossal humanitarian aid that the Saudis provide to all Muslim countries in need, including Pakistan).
Following it, as if competing with it, the UAE named a cosmic investment amount - $1.5 trillion!
Not in Pakistan, but in the United States.
So much for the Ummah!

No offense to Pakistan but anytime I see news about our government investing in other countries, all I can think about is how much more useful this money would've been being invested in Azerbaijan itself. Outside of Baku and places like Ganja the country is incredibly underdeveloped.

 

[Iskander]

No offense to Pakistan but anytime I see news about our government investing in other countries, all I can think about is how much more useful this money would've been being invested in Azerbaijan itself. Outside of Baku and places like Ganja the country is incredibly underdeveloped.

Investments in Azerbaijan are quite large. Foreign investments alone are more than $150 billion. But, unfortunately, there is little benefit from this. Corruption eats up a significant portion. Under this government, I have no hopes or illusions that anything will change for the better. And there never was.
I remember how 30 years ago we suddenly had businessmen - philanthropists. Imagine, it was during a deep crisis in the country. Do you know what happened to them? Government officials started coming to them and demanding money. Allegedly for charity. Like, good deeds can only be done on behalf of the state. They nipped these initiatives in the bud, so it never even got to the point of creating a charitable society. It seems that this is not officially prohibited. But...
Now we don’t even have such a concept, let alone a charitable society.
How are things in other areas, I don’t know. Hardly better

 

[Agha Sher]

Azerbaijan has decided to invest $2 billion in Pakistan's defense and oil and gas sector.
Meanwhile, the brotherly country needs not even 20 billion dollars, but perhaps more than 200 billion dollars. However, no one is going to do this. Those who can - China, the IMF, the UAE - are not interested in this. And countries friendly to Pakistan do not have such opportunities. The exception is Saudi Arabia. It recently announced its readiness to invest a whopping $600 billion. But not in Muslim Pakistan, which needs it most, but in the United States. (At the same time, I would like to especially note that I am not going to belittle the colossal humanitarian aid that the Saudis provide to all Muslim countries in need, including Pakistan).
Following it, as if competing with it, the UAE named a cosmic investment amount - $1.5 trillion!
Not in Pakistan, but in the United States.
So much for the Ummah!

Pakistan is a politcal mess and your investment is unfortunately lost. Until Pakistan can rid itself of their corrupt and colonial military and political leadership, it will remain a mess. Most Pakistanis are even wishing for a Taliban style government to save the country from it's current failed state.

 

[Iskander]

Pakistan is a politcal mess and your investment is unfortunately lost. Until Pakistan can rid itself of their corrupt and colonial military and political leadership, it will remain a mess. Most Pakistanis are even wishing for a Taliban style government to save the country from it's current failed state.

I have little information about Pakistani society. My interests are quite narrow - the army, interstate conflicts and foreign policy of some countries. But even I know that without eradicating corruption it is difficult to develop the country. The next most important thing, in my opinion, is education. If we start with education, then in 10 years the country will change beyond recognition, be it Pakistan, or Azerbaijan, or, say, Afghanistan (without the Taliban, of course). There are no religious problems in our country. The only problem is corruption. The worst thing is that it is ingrained in the education system.

 

[steppeWolf]

Most Pakistanis are even wishing for a Taliban style government to save the country from it's current failed state.

A big and totally wrong assumption. Its true that Pakistan has a unrest on a massive level and brewing hate towards the military junta, but no one here wishes for a Taliban style governments ( excluding some nutjobs that are irrelevant ). We don't want a system here where 50% of the population ( women ) get locked up in their homes without education.

 

[ADMusa]

A big and totally wrong assumption. Its true that Pakistan has a unrest on a massive level and brewing hate towards the military junta, but no one here wishes for a Taliban style governments ( excluding some nutjobs that are irrelevant ). We don't want a system here where 50% of the population ( women ) get locked up in their homes without education.

I think he meant Taliban-style government in dealing with corruption.

 

[ADMusa]

Airbases can be built close to the Turkish border.

Which is still an advantage. Israel is fighting on too many fronts. They really they think they are unstoppable.

Turkiye has time on its side while Israel going to sink itself even more.

Well said. A strategy of well-defended expansion. Build a military base close to the Turkish border. Then build one father away under the protection of the former, and so on. By the time they reach Palmyra, Turkish forces have already built a strong backup and protective force right up to Turkiye's border. However, this strategy would be resource intensive, though it seems like the best option if Israel continues to signal that it cannot allow Turkiye to build military bases in Palmyra and other locations.

 

[Lool]

Airbases can be built close to the Turkish border.

Which is still an advantage.

Wrong. To properly control Syria, Turkey does need those bases
Wrong
There is a reason why the TAF wanted those airbases

These airbases, especially Palmyra, is strategically located in such a way that it allows you to reach the capital in a short time, reach strategic oil and gas reserves in a short time, and is close to the frontline against the SDF

This means that from this airbase alone you can monitor lots of Syria's wealth, initiate air campaigns against the SDF, and protect the capital of Syria (Damascus) with ease

The reason Israel is against this is not only to prevent Turkey from protecting Syria during the next phase of the IDF's operation;i-e, to take Damascus, but also to prevent Turkey from establishing the necessary supply lines to attack the SDF

The problem here is that Natenyahu has already instructed his media to announce that war against Turkey is unavoidable and in such a scenario, the whole world will side with Israel against Turkey since no one wants to see a former imperial power rise to supremacy again and if Turkey controls Syria, then the West will now only have the "economy" card and "Greece/Cyprus" cards to attack Turkey with since TAF is already in Iraq and Syria may be as well

The stakes are high and the West will prefer to start a world war than to lose the few final cards they have to not only pressure/threaten Turkey but also cause ethnical unrest amd divisions within the country

Israel is fighting on too many fronts. They really they think they are unstoppable.

Turkiye has time on its side while Israel going to sink itself even more.

It is in fact the opposite
The one with time is Israel
Leaders go and policies change but the one thing that is constant is Israeli's policy and uninterrupted Western support and if you think that Israel is sinking, then must I remind you that they already control around 5% of Syria, and are only 15km from Damascus?
They even established a Druze autonomous govt just like with the kurds

They even instructed Trump to bring back the Russians (US's presumed rival) just to counter Turkey a fellow NATO ally that promised to increase US's influence amd undermine Russia's if the US sided with Turkey

 

[ADMusa]

Wrong. To properly control Syria, Turkey does need those bases
Wrong
There is a reason why the TAF wanted those airbases

These airbases, especially Palmyra, is strategically located in such a way that it allows you to reach the capital in a short time, reach strategic oil and gas reserves in a short time, and is close to the frontline against the SDF

This means that from this airbase alone you can monitor lots of Syria's wealth, initiate air campaigns against the SDF, and protect the capital of Syria (Damascus) with ease

The reason Israel is against this is not only to prevent Turkey from protecting Syria during the next phase of the IDF's operation;i-e, to take Damascus, but also to prevent Turkey from establishing the necessary supply lines to attack the SDF

The problem here is that Natenyahu has already instructed his media to announce that war against Turkey is unavoidable and in such a scenario, the whole world will side with Israel against Turkey since no one wants to see a former imperial power rise to supremacy again and if Turkey controls Syria, then the West will now only have the "economy" card and "Greece/Cyprus" cards to attack Turkey with since TAF is already in Iraq and Syria may be as well

The stakes are high and the West will prefer to start a world war than to lose the few final cards they have to not only pressure/threaten Turkey but also cause ethnical unrest amd divisions within the country

It is in fact the opposite
The one with time is Israel
Leaders go and policies change but the one thing that is constant is Israeli's policy and uninterrupted Western support and if you think that Israel is sinking, then must I remind you that they already control around 5% of Syria, and are only 15km from Damascus?
They even established a Druze autonomous govt just like with the kurds

They even instructed Trump to bring back the Russians (US's presumed rival) just to counter Turkey a fellow NATO ally that promised to increase US's influence amd undermine Russia's if the US sided with Turkey

I agree with most of your views except when you say israel, not Turkiye has time on its side. Israel is actually in a race against time in Syria. It has to occupy, not bomb Palmyra to prevent a Turkish airbase there. Turkiye has the facilities and resources to rapidly build airbases from the border and deep into Syria. The first base protects the second base which in turn protects the third base and so on. By the time Turkiye builds three or four modest airbase, it would have reached Palmyra. If need be, Turkish planes can take off from inside Turkiye to defend the skies of Palmyra. According to TravelMath, the total straight line flight distance from Gaziantep, Turkey to Palmyra, Syria is 179 miles. Turkiye's F16 fighter jets have a combat radius of about 1000 miles and can fire BVR missiles. this means the Turkish airfoce can defend Palmyria quite effectively.

Israel already designated Syria as the greatest threat to its security by claiming that war with Turkiye is inevitable. The fact it hasn't made a determined effort to degrade the HTS-dominated Syrian military yet testifies to Israel's recognition of and respect for Turkish military power. Erdogan recently said he won't let Israel or any other country to thwart Syria's stability. I think Erdogan will outsmart Israel and America in Syria. He's already done it once by outsmarting America, Russia, Iran, and Israel combined. All four countries lost in Syria. Don't underestimate Erdogan's talent in dealing with opponents.