France and Germany Are Arguing Over Their Shared Sixth-Gen Fighter Jet

Vergennes

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the-full-scale-model-of-the-systeme-de-combat-aerien-futur-news-photo-1613766050.


A multi-country effort to build a shared European fighter jet is in jeopardy as Germany and France enter crisis talks to save the program. The countries are arguing over classified technology, cost sharing, and jobs surrounding their Future Combat Air System (FCAS).

The fighter jet, which those countries agreed to with Spain, is supposed to enter service in 2040.

FCAS is a sixth-generation fighter that follows in the footsteps of previous European aircraft programs, including the Tornado strike jet, Eurofighter Typhoon, and Tiger attack helicopter.

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France has a great deal of experience in designing and building fighters, including its successful line of Mirage jets and the current frontline Rafale fighter. Germany and Spain, meanwhile, have less experience, having only worked on the Eurofighter. (Though that single project has lasted for decades.)

France and Germany are deadlocked over two of seven points of cooperation, Reuters reports. One issue is intellectual property rights, with France complaining that Germany’s participating defense industry wants access to French tech—a charge Germany denies. The two countries are also apparently squabbling over dividing payments, the exact job description of the fighter, and even Germany’s lack of participation in combat operations abroad.

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The anticipated $120 billion dollar price tag for the FCAS program, which will include crewed and uncrewed systems, means France and Germany are eager to spread the cost out among as many parties as possible. Figuring out logistics between two countries is hard enough; surely Spain’s recent entry into the FCAS program complicates things.

Germany and France signed an agreement to build FCAS in 2017, giving themselves 23 years to build a new fighter jet capable of replacing France’s Rafales and Germany and Spain’s Eurofighters by 2040. That means existing fighters will easily serve a minimum of another 19 years, stretching designs that date to the 1980s.

It’s not a great development that after 4 years, France and Germany are still squabbling over how to work together. The project may ultimately fall apart, forcing the three countries to reassemble into a smaller coalition, team up with other countries, or work alone.

But that may not be a bad thing. As the U.S. Air Force proved in 2020, advances in digital engineering mean countries can now design, build, and fly new fighter jets in as little as one year.

The process is much cheaper and faster than it was in 2017. Could the world soon see the first all-German fighter jet since World War II? It’s possible.

 

Vergennes

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I am ready to bet France will go alone on this project. (Just like the Typhoon saga)

After all with Dassault,Thales and Safran (and many other French groups) we could come out with something interesting. The only problem would be assuming the political and economic costs of going alone.
 

Fuzuli NL

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I think Dassault is more than capable on its own.
 

KKF 2.0

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Tbh, the Germans don't believe in the superiority of French defense know how. I remember vividly one German news article which made a comparison between Francogerman products and pure German products. In almost all the cases every cooperation with the French led to disappointing designs with little success on the international markets.

I'm convinced that a sole French ownership will be more successful than anything that involves the Germans.
 

Ryder

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I am ready to bet France will go alone on this project. (Just like the Typhoon saga)

After all with Dassault,Thales and Safran (and many other French groups) we could come out with something interesting. The only problem would be assuming the political and economic costs of going alone.

French also want to use the plane for combat operations abroad while Germany says no.

Shows how the Germans have fallen out of their military mind since 1945.

France is really better off going alone as the Germans will have the French shackled.
 

Parry Brima

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It's better for the world if the U.S., UK, France, Germany, Spain, etc going solo. More providers, more options, and more opportunities for "less advanced" countries to get involved either as a user or minor partner.
 
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ekemenirtu

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Tbh, the Germans don't believe in the superiority of French defense know how. I remember vividly one German news article which made a comparison between Francogerman products and pure German products. In almost all the cases every cooperation with the French led to disappointing designs with little success on the international markets.

I'm convinced that a sole French ownership will be more successful than anything that involves the Germans.

Maybe because the Germans believe since they could overrun the French easily, they are superior.

They may respect the Anglo Saxons (US, UK, Canada) more.

Whatever the case, the good issue is so long as Europeans keep squabbling, these projects won't make any progress. Good for the world. I wish the same could be seen in the United States, Russsia, China, "Israel"/Zionist regime and India.

So long as your competitors squabble among themselves, you win.
 

Vergennes

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Tbh, the Germans don't believe in the superiority of French defense know how.

Did you seriously expect the Germans to admit "our products are inferior to that of the French" ?

99% of shared programs with the Germans led to disasters because of stupid requirements and demands made by them,which delays programs and make costs to skyrocket. If it was up to me we should cancel all programs involving the Germans (Hello Eurodrone...) and go alone,as if we didn't have the know how for it,we do. In space,in the air,on land,on sea,under the sea....

The only reason we try to seek partners is to share costs and because our politicians believe in the "european cooperation". The awakening will be brutal..
 

Ryder

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Did you seriously expect the Germans to admit "our products are inferior to that of the French" ?

99% of shared programs with the Germans led to disasters because of stupid requirements and demands made by them,which delays programs and make costs to skyrocket. If it was up to me we should cancel all programs involving the Germans (Hello Eurodrone...) and go alone,as if we didn't have the know how for it,we do. In space,in the air,on land,on sea,under the sea....

The only reason we try to seek partners is to share costs and because our politicians believe in the "european cooperation". The awakening will be brutal..

Germans dont even want to do operations abroad they have all these dumb complicated reasons.

I can see why France is fustrated. Even the Eurofighter, Germans and their dumb demands fustrated the French. Now the Rafale is born.
 

Vergennes

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Germans dont even want to do operations abroad they have all these dumb complicated reasons.

I can see why France is fustrated. Even the Eurofighter, Germans and their dumb demands fustrated the French. Now the Rafale is born.

We are talking about a country which delayed the introduction of the PUMA IFV because it wasn't certified to transport highly pregnant women.
 

Ryder

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We are talking about a country which delayed the introduction of the PUMA IFV because it wasn't certified to transport highly pregnant women.

You serious???

Wow!!! Irony is the Germans mock the French.

Im gonna be honest here France today can easily steam roll if not humiliate the Germans much more badly today than in ww2.

Seriously bro is this how bad the Germans are?? In Mali it is said they never come out of their military bases. Whats the point of them having a military when they barely have proper capabilities??

If comes to Europe's defence. France and the UK lead the way even Italy is way ahead of Germany when it comes to the military.
 

Nutuk

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LOL Eurodrone is already a disaster without being build, the costs is already calculated a 120mln euro per drone (the price with delays can only go up)

And countries like Turkey can offer much better against a fraction of that price
 
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