Greece Air-Force Greece UAV/UCAV Programs

[Foulgrim]

With the same reasoning, one could say that you do not have BMC Power BATU engine operational yet. So why did you make MBT Altay?
The SARISA SRS-1A drone is in development, if Greece needs to buy a guidance kit for Hydra 70 missiles then this will be done later. The development program of this drone still has a long way to go.

 

[Foulgrim]

Lol you really want to copy the Altay clusterfuck as your development model?

In the research and development of weapons systems the difficulty is something that a project will suffer either more or less. To say that this particular UAV is a failure has no substance. The guidance kits for the Hydra 70 rockets have already been purchased by the Hellenic Navy and specifically for the Sikorsky MH-60R helicopters from November 2020. If the Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System guidance kit is no longer in stock, it will be immediately available for use through Hydra 70 rockets. Do not cancel the decisions of the officers of the Greek Armed Forces so easily, they know something too!

Οπλισμός των νέων ελληνικών MH-60R με Advanced Precision Kill Weapons System (APKWS) , όταν το ΠΝ πρωτοπορεί για μια ακόμη φορά - Πτήση

Δεν είναι λίγες οι φορές που έχουμε γράψει πως το ΠΝ είναι αυτό που λέμε πάντα στην πρωτοπόρο σε πολλές από τις επιλογές του. Είτε με την επιλογή των φρεγατών κλάσης S το 1980, είτε με την σχεδίαση σύμφωνα με τις ανάγκες του των φρεγατών κλάσης ΜΕΚΟ200ΗΝ το 1988, είτε με τα υποβρύχια 214ΗΝ […]

www.ptisidiastima.com

 

[Oublious]

With the same reasoning, one could say that you do not have BMC Power BATU engine operational yet. So why did you make MBT Altay?
The SARISA SRS-1A drone is in development, if Greece needs to buy a guidance kit for Hydra 70 missiles then this will be done later. The development program of this drone still has a long way to go.

The question that should be ask is, will they deliver engine to you? Or will they deliver it with string?

 

[Foulgrim]

The question that should be ask is, will they deliver engine to you? Or will they deliver it with string?

The purchase of guidance kits for the Hydra 70 has already been done.
That's the point.

Greece UAV/UCAV Programs

With the same reasoning, one could say that you do not have BMC Power BATU engine operational yet. So why did you make MBT Altay? The SARISA SRS-1A drone is in development, if Greece needs to buy a guidance kit for Hydra 70 missiles then this will be done later. The development program of this...

defencehub.live

 

[Foulgrim]

What a word soup.

Look, as it's marketed here:

SARISA Aerial Multi-Platform - S.A.S Technology

Spirit Aeronautical Systems / SAS Technology. Pioneer in weaponized Unmanned Aircraft Systems in Greece.

sas-tech.gr

It's a shit concept.

If I was the Greek Army, I would not buy this thing. And I don't think they will. Even if we sent you some cirit missiles for free this thing has no way of targeting them.

This thing belongs in a supermarket, not in an army. And I question your intelligence for even arguing with me on this

The Drones/UAVs TAI Gözcü, TAI Pelikan and TAI Baykuş are obsolete but they had to exist to create today's Drones/UAVs/UCAVs.
This is how it all starts!

The early architect of Turkey's drone success: Ozdemir Bayraktar

The man behind the development of the Turkish drone industry, Ozdemir Bayraktar planted the seeds of the country’s success 20 years ago.

www.trtworld.com

The SARISA SRS-1A drone is the beginning of a Greek effort to develop its own weapons systems.

 

[Foulgrim]

Anti-drone PANOPTIS

The Greek anti-drone system Panoptis is now in the development phase of a new version that is considered likely to be ready in the summer. This Greek-designed surveillance platform can, when airspace surveillance, show the position of drones on the map and beyond. This Greek-designed surveillance platform can, when airspace surveillance, show the position of drones on the map and beyond. At the same time it records key movement characteristics, such as coordinates, direction, altitude, flight speed, time at which they were identified, and then pilots will be able to land, immobilize or redirect the "unknown" or enemy drone thanks to electronic countermeasures or interference. The anti-drone Panoptis will even be able to detect both a drone attack and a swarm of drones, a threat that concerns the Armed Forces of many countries worldwide. The eight-member team of Greek scientists, working on Panoptis, estimates that the existing systems can not detect small drones, nor to assess the severity of the threat as well as to propose and activate countermeasures. For this reason, it was deemed necessary to develop an integrated platform for the detection, identification, detection and neutralization of unauthorized and potentially hostile, unmanned flying devices, with Multiple Sensor Mesh Development for wide and multiple coverage. What is important is that the "heart" of this system, ie the software, is 100% Greek design and development.

«Πανόπτης»: Σε έξι μήνες θα είναι έτοιμο το ελληνικό σύστημα αντιμετώπισης drones

Το software είναι ελληνικό

www.defencenet.gr

 

[I_Love_F16]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561514059241082880

MQ-9’s are good but damn that’s overly expensive.

 

[Kansei]

imagine we buy for 100 million TB3, 100 Million Aksungur, 100 Million Akinci and 100 million KizilElma.

Those are completely different classes in comparing you don’t know about the technologies you are talking about

 

[Baris]

Those are completely different classes in comparing you don’t know about the technologies you are talking about

Akıncı and Aksungur is pretty in the same class. Akıncı even surpasses it in some ways especially with the AESA radar and Cruise/AA missiles.

 

[Kansei^]

Akıncı and Aksungur is pretty in the same class. Akıncı even surpasses it in some ways especially with the AESA radar and Cruise/AA missiles.

I was talking about the other drones. Yeah the Turkish drones are very good in a lot of aspects actually being surpeior in a lot of departments. I don't know about the AESA radar. I can't really find info on the Turkish one but I'd be very suprised if it was surpeior than the Leonardo one the SeaGuardian will have a maximum range 320NM/592.64 Km as it's generally an amazing radar and a top one even compared worldwide. Also i'm not sure about range , the seaguardian has an endurance of 18 hours and .2,200 km; the Akinci in wikipedia for rnage says "Traveled 7507 Kilometers in latest test." . I don't know under what context that is because it's very weirdly worded but if true then one it's amazing it blows everything out the water.
Also one of the rasons i said they are not in the same class is because Greece wants the SeaGuardian not the normal variant. It probably won't carry any missiles but will be a leading class in it's ASW having podded sonobuoy dispenser systems (SDS), using a pneumatic launch system to launch 10 A-size or 20 G-size buoys from each pod, and a sonobuoy management and control system (SMCS); the aircraft can carry up to four pods. The Akinci can carry a ton of missiles but i'm pretty sure it has no ASW equipment for what I know so yeah, different rolls and classes.
Lastly altitude which matters a lot.The MQ9 's altitude celeing is 5000ft higher which is very important (50,000ft vs 45,000ft) but the operational altitude whichi is far more realistic has the Akinci having 5000ft higher ( 30,000ft vs 30,000ft). I mean some people say that the MQ9s op.altitude is being humble and we can't know if the Akinci's claims are as reputable

 

[Kansei^]

Lol

Same technology nothing advanced, sona boy or radar. Let me remind you TB2 and Greece Submarine...

You will have 4 drone in the sky we will have 25 drone in the sky .

You guys have UAVs as a mass offensive weapon because you are relatively lacking in that aspect with your Fighter planes which is a very iffy strategy because as we saw in Ukraine you need well established and dominant air surpeiority and it's kind of doubtful with their results. Greece will use them as Speciality weapons for
Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) and maritime surveillance assisting the P3B Orion and and as a huge 600km Radar linked up to the other radars giving a huge tactical picture and information of the Aegean and having secondary role as just regular day Surveillance instead of F-16s so yea, you don't really need over 4 of them. But yea the UAV situation in Turkey is generally better, I just wished they actually funded stuff like the ΕΑΒ F-16 Drone that first began in 1984 and was shown in 1990 and the Hai Pegasus that began in 1979, first flew in 1982 and released in 1990 with the final update being in 2005

 

[Kansei^]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561514059241082880

MQ-9’s are good but damn that’s overly expensive.

Yeah they are insanely expensive. i don't if it's counter-ballanced by the cheaper flying cost they claim (± $5,000/Hour),
More time on-station for a higher probability of detection (Pd) (± 25 Hours vs Manned Maritime Patrol Aircraft ± 10 Hours) and apperantly
the fact that it burns 90% less fuel than similarly configured manned ISR aircraft and requires 50% less people to operate. But yeah it's anti submarine captabilities and 600km AESA radar is insane and I'm pretty sure Greece is the launch customer. Btw i've never heard of Frenchman proclaiming his love for F-16. If it's allowed , whats your opinion on the Mirage 2000 /4000 / and Rafale

 

[Rodeo]

You guys have UAVs as a mass offensive weapon because you are relatively lacking in that aspect with your Fighter planes

This is not true. We have become good at UAVs because they're very cheap and effective at counter-terrorism. And we're building on the success of our first generation UAVs since then.

which is a very iffy strategy because as we saw in Ukraine you need well established and dominant air surpeiority and it's kind of doubtful with their results.

The drones have different capabilities and roles. Prior drones were not designed for contested airspace. But the ones we're developing now are combat fighter drones. Their design goals are to suppress enemy radars, tackle adversary aircrafts and perform deep-strike missions etc. This is a paradigm shifting development and this is the future. If they're equipped with state-of-the-art radars and missiles and has good deal of autonomy then airworthiness of piloted fighters would be in question. It would be a suicide mission to send 4th or even 5th gen aircrafts against squadrons of drones operating as a hive mind.

 

[Kansei^]

This is not true. We have become good at UAVs because they're very cheap and effective at counter-terrorism. And we're building on the success of our first generation UAVs since then.


The drones have different capabilities and roles. Prior drones were not designed for contested airspace. But the ones we're developing now are combat fighter drones. Their design goals are to suppress enemy radars, tackle adversary aircrafts and perform deep-strike missions etc. This is a paradigm shifting development and this is the future. If they're equipped with state-of-the-art radars and missiles and has good deal of autonomy then airworthiness of piloted fighters would be in question. It would be a suicide mission to send 4th or even 5th gen aircrafts against squadrons of drones operating as a hive mind.

Again that's being optimistic, even you admit you are at best talking about an unknown future and youre forgeting that it's not just drones vs fighters, it's drones vs9 layers of air defence system, Greece's own drones, brand new edge of technology 4-5 corvettes and 4 Frigates specifically designed for air defence,4-8 Older but still valuable Frigates,AWACS giving a huge image of the Aegean, other older systems and systems that aren't for air but can be used in case of emergency, and then the 150+ Block 72, Sub Block 70 , Block 50+, Block 30 and Mirage 2000-5 mk2 (slighltly surpeior to Block 52+adv),24 Top of the line 4++th gen 24 Rafale F3-R with Meteor and Mica NG and 5th gen 20 F-35 and still some debatable stuff like M-346.

 

[Rodeo]

Again that's being optimistic, even you admit you are at best talking about an unknown future and youre forgeting that it's not just drones vs fighters, it's drones vs9 layers of air defence system, Greece's own drones, brand new edge of technology 4-5 corvettes and 4 Frigates specifically designed for air defence,4-8 Older but still valuable Frigates,AWACS giving a huge image of the Aegean, other older systems and systems that aren't for air but can be used in case of emergency, and then the 150+ Block 72, Sub Block 70 , Block 50+, Block 30 and Mirage 2000-5 mk2 (slighltly surpeior to Block 52+adv),24 Top of the line 4++th gen 24 Rafale F3-R with Meteor and Mica NG and 5th gen 20 F-35 and still some debatable stuff like M-346.

I'm not talking about Greece versus Turkey or something. I am making more general statements. Drones will dominate the skies and none of what you wrote can stop this. Not saying this will happen next year or this decade but it's inevitable. And Turkey is one of the front runners of this technology.

 

[Baris]

I was talking about the other drones. Yeah the Turkish drones are very good in a lot of aspects actually being surpeior in a lot of departments. I don't know about the AESA radar. I can't really find info on the Turkish one but I'd be very suprised if it was surpeior than the Leonardo one the SeaGuardian will have a maximum range 320NM/592.64 Km as it's generally an amazing radar and a top one even compared worldwide. Also i'm not sure about range , the seaguardian has an endurance of 18 hours and .2,200 km; the Akinci in wikipedia for rnage says "Traveled 7507 Kilometers in latest test." . I don't know under what context that is because it's very weirdly worded but if true then one it's amazing it blows everything out the water.
Also one of the rasons i said they are not in the same class is because Greece wants the SeaGuardian not the normal variant. It probably won't carry any missiles but will be a leading class in it's ASW having podded sonobuoy dispenser systems (SDS), using a pneumatic launch system to launch 10 A-size or 20 G-size buoys from each pod, and a sonobuoy management and control system (SMCS); the aircraft can carry up to four pods. The Akinci can carry a ton of missiles but i'm pretty sure it has no ASW equipment for what I know so yeah, different rolls and classes.
Lastly altitude which matters a lot.The MQ9 's altitude celeing is 5000ft higher which is very important (50,000ft vs 45,000ft) but the operational altitude whichi is far more realistic has the Akinci having 5000ft higher ( 30,000ft vs 30,000ft). I mean some people say that the MQ9s op.altitude is being humble and we can't know if the Akinci's claims are as reputable

Akıncı will have ASW equipment but the main ASW will be aksungur, i think the navy will purpose build Aksungurs as ASW and akıncı as a payload carrier. Aksungur with Sonobuoy. SeaGuardian is good but really expensive but i doubt Greece has any other options, maybe Israeli drones.

 

[Kansei]

Since Greek logic is always made up of feel good dreams, they talk about today's Turkey and 2035's Greece when they write their tales of superiority dreams. However, because they know how painful realities can hurt them, ignoring them is the best thing they can do.

Let me tell you some facts then.

235 F16 + 40 new F16V request (80 F16V upgrade)
F16 Özgür: AESA + Turkish BVR missiles (If US does not approve of the sale, the entire fleet will have this capability.)
Tfx (2028 first deliveries)
Hürjet 2025+
MIUS 2024-2025+
SOJ aircrafts 2024+
Akinci..TB2..TB3..Anka..Aksungur
Drone based jammers and radars

***Entire fleet excluding a few drones will have AESA + BVR Missiles (Gokhan, Bozdogan and Gökdogan)


Against such a fleet, you only see the air superiority tales in your dreams.

I wasn’t comparing Turkey’s current inventory, I didn’t even mention their inventory because the whole point wasn’t me comparing them in a fight, it was that playing a Defence role today is way easier than offence and that almost no matter the air support unless we are talking about the U.S, it’s going to be pretty hard to secure not just general air superiority, such an absolute one that can let UAVS roam free in a hostile country that focuses on defence and basically has the entire Aegean chain locked in a radar and air defence system alongside 7 brand new ships dedicated air defence.
Also hilarious that you think you’re gonna get a screw for your F-16 fleets that reportedly in bad shape let alone an upgrade package AND 80 new planes Lmao. Also kinda weak to think that a trainer can play that big of a role that you mentioned in the deep I nvasion of a country that’s so tight locked with air defence system. Lastly difference is Greece’s systems are already signed ( for the most part) and are in the progress of being delivered (again excluding the F-35 for the most part which is basically almost signed) and are guarantee top of the line technology from companies that trusted and have confirmed results vs dozen of iffy paper projects from the same people that pushed the TFX back 5 times and are expecting better results with their 5th gen than the U.S which to my knowledge never built a fighter jet let alone a 5th gen and say that it will be better than the U.S who has been pouring trillions on 5th gen planes since at least 40 years ago and first flight a 6th gen by max 2040 making the TFX even at best prediction not even the best 10 years later

 

[Kansei]

I'm not talking about Greece versus Turkey or something. I am making more general statements. Drones will dominate the skies and none of what you wrote can stop this. Not saying this will happen next year or this decade but it's inevitable. And Turkey is one of the front runners of this technology.

my bad used to people “attacking “ Greece especially in this sub forum. I mean I don’t know man all you are making are statements “Drones will dominate the skies and none of what you wrote can stop this. Not saying this will happen next year or this decade but it's inevitable.”. I can just say the opposite. What I will agree is that is one of the front runners of this technology

 

[BordoEnes]

I know that Greece does not have the specific conversion kit, but it exists and can obtain it.

A bit of topic but Isn't that rising phoenix the old coat of arms of the Military Junta?

 

[Ryder]

my bad used to people “attacking “ Greece especially in this sub forum. I mean I don’t know man all you are making are statements “Drones will dominate the skies and none of what you wrote can stop this. Not saying this will happen next year or this decade but it's inevitable.”. I can just say the opposite. What I will agree is that is one of the front runners of this technology

You underestimate ai and robots.

Remember this humans needs to eat, sleep, work and have sex.

While ai and robots have none of that not to mention they can do stuff that humans can never do.

Warfare is going towards the path of automation and autonomous systems.

You will literally have robots fighting in the field while drones are at the skies.

It sounds fiction but its gon a happen. Nowadayd nobody wnats to risk soldiers or even pilots getting killed.

Modern warfare of today has taught us this armies are trying to minimise their casualties.

Hence why unmanned systems are becoming more important. Its all about not risking anything for greater power.