Greece Navy Greek FDI HN frigates & Gowind class light frigates Programs

Vergennes

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Greece and France have reached an agreement for the supply of French FDI frigates and Gowind-class corvettes for the Hellenic Navy, Kathimerini understands.
The deal, which will include a clause on mutual defense assistance, is expected to be announced Tuesday. No more details were immediately available about the agreement.
Asked about the deal, a spokesman for the Greek government said, “have some patience.”
Foreign Minister Nikos Dendias and Defense Minister Nikos Panagiotopoulos are expected to sign the deal in Paris Tuesday.
Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis, on his way back from the UN general assembly in New York, and French President Emmanuel Macron were to meet in the French capital later Monday.
Greece has already agreed to buy 24 Rafale warplanes from French planemaker Dassault Aviation, 12 of them used.
 
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FDI Frigates and Gowind Corvettes for Greece ?​

 

Cabatli_TR

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What is the truth of these news? Will there be an official signing ceremony that was announced? The source just says "It is understood that .... " and others quote Greek media sources.
 

Pantelis

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Greece to buy French warships in boost for EU defence​


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The deal for the Belharra warships comes less than two weeks after Australia ditched France in a major submarine contract HO DCNS/AFP/File

Paris (AFP)

France and Greece on Tuesday signed a multibillion-euro deal for Athens to buy three French warships, in an accord hailed by President Emmanuel Macron as a major boost for the EU's defence ambitions.

The memorandum of understanding for the purchase of the Belharra frigates was inked less than two weeks after France was left reeling by the cancellation by Australia of a contract to buy French submarines as part of a new defence pact with Britain and the US.

Macron said after meeting Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis at the Elysee Palace that Greece would buy the three frigates from France as part of a deeper "strategic partnership" between the two countries to defend their shared interests in the Mediterranean.

The deal marks "an audacious first step towards European strategic autonomy", Macron said.

He called Athens' decision to buy the Belharra ships "a sign of confidence" in France's defence industry, against competition notably from the American group Lockheed Martin, according to press reports.

The deal also sent a clear signal from Paris after its stinging loss this month of a multibillion-euro contract for submarines with Australia, which announced it would instead buy nuclear-powered subs from the US.

"It contributes to European security and the reinforcement of Europe's strategic autonomy and sovereignty, and therefore to international peace and security," Macron said.

The French leader has long insisted that Europe needs to develop its own defence capabilities and no longer be so reliant on the United States, even warning that NATO was undergoing "brain death".

"Today is a historic day for Greece and France. We have decided to upgrade our bilateral defensive cooperation," Mitsotakis said.

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Macron (R) signed the ship deal with Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis at the Elysee Palace in Paris Ludovic MARIN POOL/AFP

He said the agreement involves "mutual support" and "joint action at all levels," as well as an option to purchase a fourth frigate.

No financial details were provided on the value of the deal, but the ships are set to be delivered starting in 2024.

The accord did not include the sale of any French Gowind corvettes, a possibility that had been evoked in Greek media reports.

"The construction by France of this state-of-the-art equipment contributes to an ambitious European defence," said French Defence Minister Florence Parly.

- 'Not antagonistic' -

Mitsotakis added that the French deal would not affect talks on extending a longstanding defence cooperation agreement between Greece and Washington, despite the tensions sparked between the EU and Washington after the Australia submarines row.

The agreement is "not antagonistic" to the Greek-US relationship, he said, citing how "France stood by us during difficult times in the summer of 2020", a reference to Turkey's challenging of Greek territorial rights in the Aegean Sea.

Macron added that the frigate sale was not meant to be seen as a threat against Ankara, but a means to jointly ensure security in the Mediterranean as well as in North Africa, the Middle East and the Balkans.

Greece and France had already roused Ankara's ire in January, when they signed a 2.5-billion-euro ($3 billion) deal for 18 Rafale jets -- 12 used and six new -- as part of a burgeoning arms programme to counter Turkish ambitions.

Earlier this month, Mitsotakis surprised many observers with plans to buy an additional six Rafale jets, bringing the total order to 24.

"It's not directed against anyone," Macron said. "It allows more efficient and coordinated action for peace, cooperation and stability, in an international order founded on the rule of law and the full respect of commitments."

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Greece is also buying French Rafale jets Christophe SIMON AFP

Macron also vowed that the US-Australia pact would not impact France's strategy for the Indo-Pacific region, where China has made no secret of its desire to exercise significant military sway.

"We have one million fellow citizens who live in this region, and over 8,000 soldiers deployed there," Macron said, referring to France's presence through several overseas territories in the region.

He added, however, that "Europeans must stop being naive" regarding geopolitical competition, while confirming that France's ambassador to Washington, called home in the wake of the subs crisis, would return on Wednesday.

 

Nutuk

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Nothing but a MOU is signed.

This means negotiations on details and price will follow. It is not a contract yet but negotiations start with preferred bidder.
 

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GREECE SIGNS A MOU WITH NAVAL GROUP AND MBDA FOR THREE FDI HNS AND ONE OPTIONAL
28/09/2021

On September 28th, Nikólaos Panayotópoulos, the Greek Minister of Defence, Pierre Eric Pommellet, CEO of Naval Group, and Eric Béranger, CEO of MBDA, signed a Memorandum of Understanding to open negotiations to provide the Hellenic Navy (HN) with three Defence and Intervention frigates (FDI HN) and their equipment as well as an optional additional frigate.

The FDI HN frigates will be built in the Naval Group shipyard in Lorient, where the second in the series for the French Navy has just entered production.

The FDI HN will be an asset of power and sovereignty for Greece.

With the FDI HN, the Hellenic Navy will have a state-of-the-art, high-performance surface fleet.

As a first-rank frigate, the FDI HN is a compendium of the best technologies of Naval Group, Thales and MBDA, which will notably supply the ASTER 30 B1 and Exocet MM40 Block 3C missiles. It will be fully interoperable with European and NATO fleets.

Greece will become the second customer of this multi-mission frigate, bringing the number of units produced from five for the French Navy to eight in total, plus one as an option

 

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The costs is 2,4 billion for 3 frigates and 6 million for additional 6 Rafael fighters. Total cost is 3 billion at the moment with 3 FDI and 6 additional Rafael fighters. I expect 400-450 million euro costs per growing class if they are ordered . Making around 4.250-4.500 billion euro. Additional 500-750 million euro for the modernization of 2-4 meko ships of Greeks
 

Fighter_35

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Thats a lot of € for a handfull of equipment, that will not get u very far, especially long term when Turkey fields dozens of new destroyers,frigates,submarines,lhd´s,corvettes,opv´s,usv,uuv´s etc.

They are paying with euros money!! They get their money from France and Germany!!
What is Turkey doing? Programs get slower and slower.
We get out of f-35 ended up with just f-16s. There is a threat to not supply maintaining equipment for them if we go with additional s-400.
Tcg Anadolu with out f-35s. We are kidding ourselves with landing uavs on this platform.
I class first planned for 2021 and remaining ones would be commissioned in 2022,2023 and 2024. But new dates are not known for the 3 of this class except tcg İstanbul.
Same is true for reis class submarines, normally first one should have been commissioned las year.
We are not doing good!!
Same
 

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I will write my opinion on the defense agreement between Greece and France but also what it offers according to what has been published.
We are talking about an agreement worth 5 billion euros, which includes a defense agreement between the two countries. The wartime defense agreement is difficult to implement, everyone knows that when war comes a country's allies look to avoid military involvement. So the defense pact is essentially a paper that offers nothing. The deal includes the purchase of 3 Belh@rra Helleniques(FDI) frigates worth 3 billion euros (+ 1 frigate with a locked price and weapons systems) with the possibility of air defense but with a lack of electronic warfare capabilities, at least in the beginning. Also included in the package of the agreement are 4 light frigates which will be based on the Gowind 2500 worth 2 billion euros. In total, the package of the agreement amounts to 5 billion euros. The Belh@rra Helleniques(FDI) frigates will hypothetically include an Oto Melara 76 mm Super Rapid gun (mounted in stealth cupola), 2 × 20 mm remotely operated guns, anti-ship missiles: 8 × Exocet MM-40 Block 3, anti-air missiles: 2 × Sylver A50 8-cell VLS for MBDA Aster 30 and anti-submarine: 2 × dual torpedo tubes with EuroTorp MU90 Impact torpedoes while deliveries of warships will begin in 2025 and end in 2027. There is a possibility, according to journalistic information, that Greece will receive 2 frigates Belh@rra Helleniques (FDI) in 2025 and another immediately after because France granted the second, third and fourth frigate to Greece. This means that, according to press reports, the first frigate for the Greek Navy has already begun construction. Unknown whether the 1,000-kilometer Missile de Croisière Naval missiles will be included in the agreement package. The modernization of the 4 Greek frigates MEKO200HN will logically be implemented in the second phase with a slight upgrade.
My personal view:
Last summer, the contract for 2 Belh@rra frigates, with 8 SCALP Naval at position 8 ASTER 30 (24 ASTER 30, 8 mdCN), amounted to 3.38 billion euros! The price reduction achieved with the current agreement is astonishing and includes the future integration of the ECM system in the ships (fully integrated in SETIS and fully cooperative with SeaFire). The Greek taxpayer did not just save 500 million euros but also took an additional ship. The agreement, as the details are slowly revealed to us, is excellent for Greece, and the price of the ships is cheaper than any competitor! We are talking about a total of 8 frigates, of which 4 with area air defense and a huge range of cruise missiles, but also 4 light ones for support. Obviously, these low prices were not achieved due to Greek diplomacy but due to the fact that the US and Great Britain canceled the submarine contract between France and Australia. The USA left room for France to come to Greece with a new proposal after the lost contract with the Australians. Because the French needed us, they sold their frigates at a lower price than anyone else. The overall score for me is positive in terms of value for money. But if Greece wants to have a strong presence in the Aegean Sea and more generally in the Eastern Mediterranean, it must invest in destroyer warships. Gowind 2500 frigates have an advantage over Ada class corvettes due to 8-16 × VLS for MICA VL and Ada class corvettes have an advantage over Gowind 2500 frigates due to 8 × Harpoon or Atmaca. The Belh@rra Helleniques(FDI) will be the awe-inspiring rival to the Istanbul-class frigates (the TCG Istanbul frigate (F-515) enters service in 2023) when the first Belh@rra Helleniques enters service in 2025. But things begin and take a negative course for Greek sovereignty with the integration of the 8 Turkish destroyers of warships class TF2000 (with displacement at 8,500 tons) where the first ship will enter service in 2027. In this case there must be some dynamic response from the Greek Government.
The view of Flight and Space magazine:
 
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Foulgrim

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The Belh@rra Helleniques frigates will most likely not have the SCALP Naval cruise missile (MDCN), this cruise missile has a range of 1000 km. This option would require the Sylver A70 launcher instead of the Sylver A50 launcher carrying Aster 30 missiles. The Sylver A70 launcher could also accept Aster 30 missiles if needed. The reason the Sylver A50 launcher was chosen is because the MBDA did not very likely give the green light to make such a sale as the SCALP Naval is considered a strategic weapon. SCALP Naval could change the balance of power in the Eastern Aegean as a frigate could launch a missile from the Ionian Sea!
 

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The Belh@rra Helleniques frigates will most likely not have the SCALP Naval cruise missile (MDCN), this cruise missile has a range of 1000 km. This option would require the Sylver A70 launcher instead of the Sylver A50 launcher carrying Aster 30 missiles. The Sylver A70 launcher could also accept Aster 30 missiles if needed. The reason the Sylver A50 launcher was chosen is because the MBDA did not very likely give the green light to make such a sale as the SCALP Naval is considered a strategic weapon. SCALP Naval could change the balance of power in the Eastern Aegean as a frigate could launch a missile from the Ionian Sea!


LoL...

do you have the money?


this news is nothing more then MOU...
 

Foulgrim

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LoL...

do you have the money?


this news is nothing more then MOU...
The total price would have made little difference if the SCALP Naval (MDCN) cruise missiles with the Sylver A70 launchers had been included in the package. The reason for not acquiring them was purely geopolitical and not economic. MBDA is the copyright holder of this cruise missile. MBDA owns 37.5% in Airbus, 37.5% in BAE Systems and 25% in Leonardo.
-The share capital of Airbus, according to the data of December 2020, belongs to 11.0% to SOGEPA (France), 10.9% to GZBV (Germany), 10.1% to Capital Group Companies (USA), 4.1% to SEPI (Spain) , 2.1% in PRIMECAP Management Company (USA), 1.1% in Invesco (USA) and 74.0% in other smaller shareholders.
-The strongest shareholders of BAE Systems are:
Invesco Asset Management Ltd. 4.97%
Veritas Asset Management LLP 4.63%
Barclays Bank Plc (Private Banking) 3.98%
Templeton Investment Counsel LLC 3.51%
BlackRock Investment Management (UK) Ltd. 3.28%
Silchester International Investors LLP 3.01%
The Vanguard Group, Inc. 2.80%
Capital Research & Management Co. (World Investors) 2.71%
BlackRock Fund Advisors 2.60%
BlackRock Investment Management LLC 2.15%
These companies are owned by British or US parent companies with British subsidiaries. The largest percentage of share capital belongs to companies in Great Britain.
-The strongest shareholder of Leonardo S.p.A. is the Italian Ministry of Economy and Finance with 30.20%.
I come to the following conclusion:
Italy, Great Britain and Spain have the largest share of MBDA share capital, because all three countries are doing very well with Turkey at the geopolitical level. They would not want to sell a strategic weapon such as the SCALP Naval (MDCN) cruise missile to Greece. For example, the guidance kit of this particular cruise missile is copyright of the British company BAE Systems while the engine TR50 is of the French company Microturbo.
 

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The agreement for the armament of Gowind class light frigates was also finalized.
The 4 light frigates of class Gowind will finally cost 1.6 billion euros with the whole package (armament, training, infrastructure, etc.) while they will be built in France. The ships selected are a new category of ships named Gowind 2900 Hellenique(2,900 tons), the reports that said that Greece is negotiating for the remodeled version of the Gowind 2500 frigates were finally right. Also, on a contract basis, Greece will be given the opportunity to build 3 additional Gowind 2900 Helleniques frigates with a locked price and armament. The French offer a timetable for the construction of the first Gowind 2900 Hellenique from the moment the contract is signed and the deposit is paid. Thus, the first Greek Gowind 2900 Hellenique will be delivered in 32 months, ready for testing by the Greek Navy while the first 4 Gowind 2900 Helleniques will be delivered within 50 months in total, at intervals of a few months from each other. Essentially in 2026 the Hellenic Navy will have received all its warships, namely 3 Belh@rra Helleniques(FDI) and 4 Gowind 2900 Helleniques. Of course with the possibility of acquiring 1 frigate Belh@rra Hellenique(FDI) in a French shipyard and 3 Gowind 2900 Helleniques in Greek shipyards. With 1.2 billion euros Greece gets 3 extra light frigates Gowind 2900 Helleniques and with 1 billion euros gets 1 frigate Belh@rra Hellenique(FDI). Essentially, out of the 7 new warships, Greece can go to the 11 warships in total with 2.2 billion euros. We are essentially talking about replacing the entire Greek fleet.
 

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The agreement for the armament of Gowind class light frigates was also finalized.
The 4 light frigates of class Gowind will finally cost 1.6 billion euros with the whole package (armament, training, infrastructure, etc.) while they will be built in France. The ships selected are a new category of ships named Gowind 2900 Hellenique(2,900 tons), the reports that said that Greece is negotiating for the remodeled version of the Gowind 2500 frigates were finally right. Also, on a contract basis, Greece will be given the opportunity to build 3 additional Gowind 2900 Helleniques frigates with a locked price and armament. The French offer a timetable for the construction of the first Gowind 2900 Hellenique from the moment the contract is signed and the deposit is paid. Thus, the first Greek Gowind 2900 Hellenique will be delivered in 32 months, ready for testing by the Greek Navy while the first 4 Gowind 2900 Helleniques will be delivered within 50 months in total, at intervals of a few months from each other. Essentially in 2026 the Hellenic Navy will have received all its warships, namely 3 Belh@rra Helleniques(FDI) and 4 Gowind 2900 Helleniques. Of course with the possibility of acquiring 1 frigate Belh@rra Hellenique(FDI) in a French shipyard and 3 Gowind 2900 Helleniques in Greek shipyards. With 1.2 billion euros Greece gets 3 extra light frigates Gowind 2900 Helleniques and with 1 billion euros gets 1 frigate Belh@rra Hellenique(FDI). Essentially, out of the 7 new warships, Greece can go to the 11 warships in total with 2.2 billion euros. We are essentially talking about replacing the entire Greek fleet.

As much as I hate to say this but this is a very good deal for Greece. Look how salty we became about it:D Yes Belhara's are expensive but they are very good ships.(at least on paper) I guess AUKUS deal may be more beneficial to Greece than Australia.(If not Greek Navy most likely would end up with LCS's.) Only question is, will the France be able to keep the prices as it is or will it became like Australia's submarine deal.

I hope this deal will be the push we need to start signing Istif deals and other naval replacement projects(OPV's, TF2000, FAC's and maybe materializing TF4500. Also speeding up the developing national systems)
 

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As much as I hate to say this but this is a very good deal for Greece. Look how salty we became about it:D Yes Belhara's are expensive but they are very good ships.(at least on paper) I guess AUKUS deal may be more beneficial to Greece than Australia.(If not Greek Navy most likely would end up with LCS's.) Only question is, will the France be able to keep the prices as it is or will it became like Australia's submarine deal.

I hope this deal will be the push we need to start signing Istif deals and other naval replacement projects(OPV's, TF2000, FAC's and maybe materializing TF4500. Also speeding up the developing national systems)
I think it is to be expected that Turkey will shorten its armaments program or enrich it with a new number of warships. Nobody thinks that Turkey will leave such a move unanswered! The agreement between Greece and France was very good as we got the warships at an incredible price. The United States, along with Britain and Australia, have contributed to this. In fact, this move by Greece gave a strong deterrent force to any possible threat until 2027, when the first of the 8 TF2000 destroyers will start operating. Greece must sign an agreement for the receipt of warships with similar skills.
 

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I think it is to be expected that Turkey will shorten its armaments program or enrich it with a new number of warships. Nobody thinks that Turkey will leave such a move unanswered! The agreement between Greece and France was very good as we got the warships at an incredible price. The United States, along with Britain and Australia, have contributed to this. In fact, this move by Greece gave a strong deterrent force to any possible threat until 2027, when the first of the 8 TF2000 destroyers will start operating. Greece must sign an agreement for the receipt of warships with similar skills.


I don't now why you are scared from TF2000, you have much worste problems then TF2000. We will never use TF2000 in the agean sea, only dumb people will use it.
 

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I don't now why you are scared from TF2000, you have much worste problems then TF2000. We will never use TF2000 in the agean sea, only dumb people will use it.
I'm not afraid of something that does not even exist! However, the 8 destroyers TF2000 will have weapons systems that are impossible to deal with by the Greek Navy. The worst weapon system of this particular warship, where i have said it many times, is not the G-40 surface-to-air missile, nor the naval version of the Hisar-U anti-aircraft & anti-ballistic missile system with a range of 100+ kilometers, but the Gezgin cruise missile with impact range at 800-1200 km and the electromagnetic Railgun it will carry. Apparently this weapon system will be the Şahi 209 (Block 5?). The impact speed in the Block 1 version is at 3+ Mach (range 10 km) while in the Block 2 version it reached 6+ Mach (range 50 km). The Şahi 209 Block 2 is considered the prototype with number 9, the 12th prototype will have a range of 150 kilometers at a speed of 8+ Mach (9800 kilometers per hour). The destroyer TF2000 will be able to hit targets from a long distance without any response as there is no possibility of hitting a target at such high speeds in the French arsenal. The destroyer TF2000 does not need to be located in the Aegean Sea, as long as it is located in the Black Sea, the Libyan Sea and anywhere else in the Eastern Mediterranean. Such warships do not need to be at the point of armed conflict, the job of such ships is to attack enemy ships from a great distance. For this reason, Greece, for its part, must find a warship of similar performance. The company that manufactures this weapon system is Urban Savunma.
 

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