Greece Navy Greek FDI HN frigates & Gowind class light frigates Programs

[Nutuk]

Yep but the "agreement" of Greece is just in the air, no contract of yet, zilp zero nothing!

 

[Foulgrim]

Yep but the "agreement" of Greece is just in the air, no contract of yet, zilp zero nothing!

Not one contract will be signed but many. There are many French companies involved in this agreement and signing contracts takes time. However, this does not change the delivery schedule of the warships. By 2026, 7 frigates must have been delivered.

 

[Nutuk]

Not one contract will be signed but many. There are many French companies involved in this agreement and signing contracts takes time. However, this does not change the delivery schedule of the warships. By 2026, 7 frigates must have been delivered.

Still none of those many contracts have been signed.

Not to piss you off but nothing is certain without legal binding (contract) and even than politics can interfere with embargoes etc.


You may think you have agreement, not on paper though!

 

[Foulgrim]

Still none of those many contracts have been signed.

Not to piss you off but nothing is certain without legal binding (contract) and even than politics can interfere with embargoes etc.


You may think you have agreement, not on paper though!

Obviously there is no legal transnational commitment. However, i do not think that there is anything that could invalidate this agreement. It is an agreement that has the consent of all the great western powers.

 

[Nutuk]

Obviously there is no legal transnational commitment. However, i do not think that there is anything that could invalidate this agreement. It is an agreement that has the consent of all the great western powers.

Does not matter, without contract anything can still happen.

I can give you an example on Turkish U214 agreement, on all fronts all technical details there was agreement until the last point of financing when became clear that the German bank was asking a too high interest rate. It delayed the project for about 2 years until the contract became signed.

What guarantees do you have not to run into financing disagreements? You have signed zilp zero nothing yet, thus nothing that is validating it either.

 

[Trakya_forever]

I said it was my last message to the topic but I couldnt stand

To be honest, Belharras and possible Gowinds 2500-2900 will be a real fresh power for Greek Navy cause its frigate fleet is about to die. However, there is only a MOU now, there is not the agreement, contract. It is too early to talk about the cost of the ships. As far as I know, French proposal for Belharras includes 16 cell VLS and Aster 15/30 missiles. There is no RAM, no ECM, CIWS. This is only a basic configuration. Maybe Greek Navy wants additional VLS as well and additional missiles of course. What I am trying to say that we have to see the final agreement in order to talk about the costs.

When it comes to Gowind, I think it will be Gowind 2500. If you want a Hellenic type Gowind (2900) there will be development costs for Greece or you can buy Gowind 3100. If you want a new type for yourself, you have to pay extra money. On the other hand, it is impossible to buy Gowind 2500 for 400 milliion Euro with all armaments, weapons, ammnutions etc.

As I said before, it is too early to talk about the costs. We will see the latest configurations and costs all together. We have to wait a little bit for that.
Conjecturally, with Greek requirements, I think it will be 3.6- 4 billion Euros for 3 Belharras and 1.5-1.7 billion for 3 Gowind 2500s. And all the ships will be built in France.

 

[Akritas]

Some usefull informations as regards the armament and the equipment of the FDI HN Hellenic Navy ships, still waiting the final contract until the end of this year.

1-4 Sylver A-50, allowing the Hellenic Navy to operate with 32 Aster-30 air defence missiles(120 km)
2- Equipperd with 21 point defence missiles being also equipped with one Mk31 21-cell launcher of RAM Block 2B surface-to-air missiles, 8 Block 3 Exocet anti-ship missiles,
3- Dual launchers MU90 torpedoes
4-Canto system as torpedo countermeasures.
5-Two sonars, the Kingklip Mark 1115 hull sonar and the CAPTAS-4 towed sonar
6-SEA FIRE all-digital multi-function AESA radar
7-Sentinel system(R-ESM), an advanced digital electronic warfare system
6- Leonardo Super Rapido or Leonardo Strales
7-R-ECM not depicted yet.
8-MH-60 Romeo helicopter and A900 UAV

Two of the vessels, destined for the French Navy in 2025, now will be delivered to the Hellenic Navy. The date of the construction agreement is anticipated to be at late 2021 or early 2022. The third will be delivered in 2026.

 

[Akritas]

A very useful infographic Hellenic FDI-HN from Dimitrios Mitsopoulos.

 

[Test7]

A very useful infographic Hellenic FDI-HN from Dimitrios Mitsopoulos.


View attachment 35913

Absolutely it is. Dear Dimitrios has always extensive works.
Thanks @Naval Analyses

 

[Foulgrim]

This frigate is good as a weapon system, but it lacks its main weapon of deterrence, the Scalp Naval!

 

[Akritas]

This frigate is good as a weapon system, but it lacks its main weapon of deterrence, the Scalp Naval!

Hellenic navy didn't want Scalp Naval missiles in this type of frigate(General purpose).

 

[Foulgrim]

Hellenic navy didn't want Scalp Naval missiles in this type of frigate(General purpose).

You need them if you want to have an impact range of 1000 km. The Turks will have Gezgin. What will we have?

 

[Akritas]

You need them if you want to have an impact range of 1000 km. The Turks will have Gezgin. What will we have?

Since 2004 the SCALP EG , that's why Hellenic Navy doesn't want SCALP NAVAL at the new Greek Frigate Programm.

 

[Foulgrim]

Since 2004 the SCALP EG , that's why Hellenic Navy doesn't want SCALP NAVAL at the new Greek Frigate Programm.

The Scalp EG of the Hellenic Air Force has a range of 300 kilometers. SCALP NAVAL has a range of 1000 kilometers while GEZGIN will have 800-1200 kilometers. So how come SCALP NAVAL is not needed in the Greek arsenal?

 

[Akritas]

The Scalp EG of the Hellenic Air Force has a range of 300 kilometers. SCALP NAVAL has a range of 1000 kilometers while GEZGIN will have 800-1200 kilometers. So how come SCALP NAVAL is not needed in the Greek arsenal?

Because the Hellenic navy needs new units to renew its fleet by 2028. What to do the "Scalp Naval" when only 8 missiles cost around 16 millions while it also "eats" missile positions that are necessary for the region air defense?

 

[Rodeo]

The Scalp EG of the Hellenic Air Force has a range of 300 kilometers. SCALP NAVAL has a range of 1000 kilometers while GEZGIN will have 800-1200 kilometers. So how come SCALP NAVAL is not needed in the Greek arsenal?

Knowing France signed MTCR, can they export such high-range missiles?

 

[Akritas]

Knowing France signed MTCR, can they export such high-range missiles?

Good question......maybe perhaps with some modification or variation, e.g. new range that reaches at 700 km.

 

[Rodeo]

Good question......maybe perhaps with some modification or variation, e.g. new range that reaches at 700 km.

From Wikipedia page:

"The MTCR was created in order to curb the spread of unmanned delivery systems for nuclear weapons, Specifically, delivery systems that can carry a payload of 500 kg for a distance of 300 km."

For instance our SOM and ATMACA missiles uses a French engine(for now). We can't run this engine longer than some certain minutes(17 mins). And that comes from MTCR .

 

[Akritas]

From Wikipedia page:

"The MTCR was created in order to curb the spread of unmanned delivery systems for nuclear weapons, Specifically, delivery systems that can carry a payload of 500 kg for a distance of 300 km."

For instance our SOM and ATMACA missiles uses a French engine(for now). We can't run this engine longer than some certain minutes(17 mins). And that comes from MTCR .

Greece has already Scalp EG with 560 km operational range.

 

[Foulgrim]

Greece has already Scalp EG with 560 km operational range.

The SCALP-EGs carried by the Mirage 2000 of the Hellenic Air Force have a range of 300 kilometers and not 560 kilometers. The scope of SCALP-EG varies depending on the date of acquisition and what conversions the country has paid to it. For example, the United Kingdom has a SCALP-EG with a range of 700-1000 km. Obviously there have been construction modifications by Bae Systems.

SCALP-EG - Πολεμική Αεροπορία

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