Greece Navy Greek FDI HN frigates & Gowind class light frigates Programs

Akritas

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The SEA FIRE is a fully digital AESA multifunction radar, equipped with four fixed antenna panels, supporting the ships’ simultaneous defence against threats ranging from conventional to asymmetric or hyper-velocity & highly-maneuvering.
It’s 300 km air coverage can detect & track more than 800 objects simultaneously without saturation up to 90° elevation and it provides surface coverage up to the horizon.
It brings moderate size frigates the power & performance of destroyers dedicated to extended air defence with advanced surveillance and fire control capabilities.
Sea Fire, is qualified by the DGA after exhaustive and thorough testing in Saint-Mandrier, the reference trial centre for the French naval forces. The radar is now handed over to Naval Group for integration into combat system on-board the FDI frigates.
Some useful infographics ......

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Akritas

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The Sylver (SYstème de Lancement VERtical) is a vertical launching system (VLS) designed by DCNS. The launcher comes in several variants, each distinguished by their heigh.
Launchers come in eight-cell modules, except A-35 available in four-cell modules.

Hellenic FDI will be fitted with four A-50 type Sylver VLS, designed by DCNS, for 32 Aster 30 surface-to-air missiles in the bow.
On the other hand, French FDI will be fitted with two A-50 type Sylver VLS for 16 Aster 15/30.
The A-70 type Sylver VLS is the only that can launch Scalp Naval and they are at the Freem frigate.


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Akritas

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Maybe the next FDI might be the elongated FDI ?
This was a NAVAL Group proposal 2 years ago.
Displacement 5.500 tn
48 cells (4 x A50 or 2XA50 + 2xA70)
127 mm main gun
Propulsion : CODAD 40 MW
Missiles: 32 ASTER-30 1NT, 8 Scalp Naval, 32 CAMM ER, 16 Exocet Block IIIC
Shorad defence





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Akritas

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The French Gowind corvettes will ultimately be the Navy's choice according Vradini newspaper. Both the government and the leadership of the Navy have come to this conclusion, but the issue will be completed by March, because issues of a sensitive nature are pending, both in their equipment and in the final price, which the Greek side wants to further reduce, for to gain flexibility in their support capabilities.

Dutch(Sigma Class) and the Italians(Doha Class), along with the Americans(HF2 Class), were keenly interested in the Corvette program, but the French made a catalytic move. In particular, instead of four, they proposed five Gowind corvettes at a cost of about 1.8 billion euros. This is an increase of 100 million compared to its last offer, which, however, concerned four instead of five corvettes.

The French offer puts the Greek shipyards in the game, something that was a goal and a condition for the government. Specifically, they suggest that two or three of the five Gowinds can be built in Greece, with a construction time of 32 months.

 

Akritas

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Once selected the FDI's as the main units of the fleet, the choice of GOWIND is the logical continuation, if we want to maximize which innovations the new ships will bring.
 

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Latest news as regard the Corvette program with 2 bil budget...
  • Each French GoWind(4 ships) with full armament(16 MICA NG, 8 Exocet MM40, RAM, two ASW sonars) and FOS reaches a maximum of 400 million euros. Therefore, we can talk about more than 4 ships. First ship at 2024, last at 2029 or 2030 if the ships will be 5.
  • Dutch Sigma 10514(4 ships) with full armament(16 MICA NG or ESSM Block 2, 8 Exocet MM40, RAM,two ASW sonars ) ) and FOS reaches a maximum of 400 million euros. Therefore, we can talk about more than 4 ships. First ship at 2024, last at 2029 or 2030 if the ships will be 5.
  • Italian Doha Class(4 ships) with full armament(16 ASTER 30 or MICA NG, 8 Exocet MM40, RAM, two ASW sonars ) and FOS reaches a maximum of 500 million euros. First ship at 2025, last at 2030.
  • US LCS (4 ships) with armament(16 ESSM Block 2 or CAMM ER, 8 NSM, RAM, one ASW sonar ) and FOS , not prices details.
According to the leaks and rumors, the Greek navy prefers Doha, if the Italians drop the price, as the French did.

 

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Doha Class or FCx30 Corvette, from yesterday's presentation of Fikantieri in Greece, on the subject of collaborations for the development of Greek shipyards.

View attachment 39424
 

Akritas

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Final prices of the Hellenic FDI are at 707 billions euros, as specified in the contract.
First deliver in 31-3-2025 and finally receipt of all three in the Greek configuration at 31/9/2027.
If the option of the 4th Hellenic FDI will be activated , the date delivered will be at 31/12/2027.

 

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The cost of purchasing the French FDI HN frigates is generally a major achievement of the Navy, which managed to reduce the final price of the ships by about 200+ million euros compared to the initial offers. As we have written many times, the price reduction was for four reasons :

From the geopolitical and economic developments due to the AUKUS agreementFrom the reduction of price due to non-construction in Greece (construction in a shipyard with a ready production line has obviously lower costs)Due to the removal of critical subsystems and weaponsDue to marginal Follow On Support , limited cost (small fraction of what PN wanted)

As a result, the French frigates came close enough in price to the Dutch, American and British proposals (which of course did not ask for similar discounts), and in fact came to have the same price, perhaps a little lower, than the Italian one. The French turned the disadvantage of not building in a Greek shipyard into an advantage, offering 2 ships from the French order for faster delivery, while a third was added afterwards.

We need to be clear. According to our latest information, the first two ships that the Navy will receive are purely "French", ie they are the basic version of FDI . These ships, we will call them Batch I (to be able to distinguish them), will be delivered to our Navy as ordered by the French Navy. This means that they will have:

2 8-cell Sylver A50 launchers, ie 16 ASTER 30 missiles8 MM40 Block 3c anti-ship missiles1 Super Rapido 76 mm cannonCANTO torpedo countermeasures2 Narwal cannons of 20 mm

These ships, according to the contract, and if there are no delays in the production line (problems with the 1st ship, force majeure, etc.), will arrive in Greece in 2025. Delivery in 2025 was what bent any reservations of the political leadership, to order ships that will not be built in Greece . It is also what the PN leadership proposed as a replacement for the Interim Solution (which the other proposals had).

In the middle of the construction of the two ships, the company Naval Group, will complete the redesign of the class, and will add some additional systems that our Navy wants. The integration of our PN wishes into the original FDI Standard I, will create the FDI HN (or rather the FDI Standard II)

The FDI HN (FDI Standard II) , will be a frigate that will be close enough to a really powerful warship, like what our Navy wants. But let's see what it also includes:

Two more A50 Sylver launchers, ie a total of 4 x Sylver A50, for 32 ASTER LauncherRAM 21cell, above the helicopter hangarChaffs and Flares (absent from Batch I)

Before starting any protests, let's say that the contract submitted to the Parliament includes the subsequent conversion of the first two FDI Standard I to FDI Standard II in Greece , probably at the Salamis Naval Base. There, the two additional A50 launchers will be installed, with 16 ASTER 30 in addition, as well as the RAM. Until then, the manufacturer must have integrated the RAM in SETIS, and the system must be plug n 'play.


To prevent the "classic" question of our friends, ECM system is not provided anywhere in the contract, as it is impossible to contract something non-existent . The PN chose not to take the risk of committing to an ECM that does not exist, and to order it when it is ready and tested. So, it's too late to see a complete EW Suite on board. Also, as there have been many and varied discussions about ESM , we have to say that it will be the Standard and not an Extended version . Therefore, it was good to hear about the "next generation ESM", but to know that in fact the band coverage is MEKO200HN.


The IRST is also absent from the order (the optical systems are not integrated in the CMS, they just transfer an image), while there is also no unmanned helicopter (VTOL UAV) in the contract or the possibility of integrating it in the CMS. Finally, we do not know what effect the installation of 2 additional A50 launchers, 16 ASTER 30 missiles and a 21cell RAM (due to extra weight) will have on the ship's performance. The top speed of 27 knots was calculated by computer simulation for the FDI Batch I at half fuel. Now, with full load, there may be a reduction, something that the French themselves have admitted, while it is also reflected in the contract (since it mentions a maximum of 25 knots).

The two Greek FDI Standard I are expected to be upgraded to Standard II by the end of 2028 (the quorum will be 2027 Greece) . By then, they will be well-equipped enough to take on active duty, strengthening the Fleet's air defense. Each ship that will be received will come with a full battle load.

We have not been able to clarify the amount of the deposit. If there is no change the French will take, an amount that will reach about 900 million with 1 billion euros (with some milestones), an amount high enough, if one thinks the program will be repaid before all the ships are received. However, if we look at the contract, in 2022 the French will receive almost 1 billion euros.

So after 2028, our Navy will have, fortunately, 3 FDI Batch II frigates . Somewhere there we can logically say that we will have the first IOC of ships (Initial Operational Capability, initial operational readiness), as we believe that the ships from 2025 to 2027 will be used by the Ministry of Defense for training , but also to resolve any problems. We are not talking about ships of the "Averoff" era, we are talking about a state-of-the-art ship that needs a high level of specialization.

The PN, in the meantime, must order RAM Block 2B missiles , in sufficient quantities, for the armament of the RAM launchers, as well as to find a solution for the installation of a modern ECM. The French, on our last visit to Lorient, told us that the development of such a system would begin , with a possible upgrade of the basic ESM. We admit that we have heard it clearly, but it is not certain that it will happen, as here we must say that the FDI in French service is a ship for low-intensity conflicts .

Let us not forget that French ships do not even have chaffs or flares, which means that they are not intended to be developed in environments where there will be a serious threat of anti-ship missiles . Therefore, perhaps the Navy should immediately begin the investigation for the installation of an ECM system in the next flagships of the Fleet . It does not mean a modern warship, with such operational value as not having new technology interceptors.

At the same time it should proceed to the selection of a VTOL UAV, which, however, as we have said, will of course be able to transfer an image to a control station on board, but will not be integrated in the CMS.

 

Cabatli_TR

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I think this tender is a disappointment considering the expectations of Greece.

First 2 FDI will be version-1 standards which lacks ECM, RAM, IRST, Chaff-Flare and deliveries are planned in 2025. Version-1 will have 8 Exocet, 16 A50 VLS and 76mm gun.

Third FDI will be Version-2 which will have 8 Exocet, 16+16 A50 VLS and 76mm main gun.

There is talk of upgrading versions-1 around 2028, but the integration of RAM, IRST and other sensors into CMS seems to be a another problem. Low performance due to extra missile loads and the possibility of not reaching the desired speeds are among the other problems for Version-II (25kts max)
 

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There is talk of upgrading versions-1 around 2028, but the integration of RAM, IRST and other sensors into CMS seems to be a another problem. Low performance due to extra missile loads and the possibility of not reaching the desired speeds are among the other problems for Version-II (25kts max)
You are wrong here, I have written about the deadlines as mentioned to the contract ...."finally receipt of all three in the Greek configuration at 31/9/2027" or "four at 31/12/2027"

Secondly, this is the configuration of the Greek FDI, as Naval Group herself had announced for 4th time.....
with RAM, etc


3nd, the minimun admissible speed is 26.7 knots, the 25 is reason for rejection.
1644441980543.png


Finally, as regards the EW Suite, Greek FDI has the R-ESM(Sentinel), C-ESM(Altesse) and ECM.
The latter , new system to be developed first, and most importantly, the compartment as well as the wiring are provided to exist at the Greek FDI. French FDI will not have these.
 

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1bln euro per ship and you get this.

Each I-class is better equipped and about a third of that price.

Well done Komsi!

PS in 2027 our first TF2000 is scheduled to be commissioned
 

Akritas

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1bln euro per ship and you get this.
As a think tank analyst, I expected you to read better what the other person writes, and I explain ....
The price of each unit is 707 billions euros, as specified in the contract.
All that remains is to add the cost of acquiring and installing ECM, which according to other examples, over 20 million euros, will not be.
Each I-class is better equipped and about a third of that price.
What more will the corresponding Turkish frigate have and will it be better equipped?
And how does this 1/3 of the price come out, when the cost of your corvette(without HMS, VDS, VLS, SAM) is 250 mil?

PS in 2027 our first TF2000 is scheduled to be commissioned
The first I-Class has not commisioned yet, and you put into service a ship(TF Class), which is not ready yet, not even in the shipyards drawings?
 
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Nutuk

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As a think tank analyst, I expected you to read better what the other person writes, and I explain ....
The price of each unit is 707 billions euros, as specified in the contract.
All that remains is to add the cost of acquiring and installing ECM, which according to other examples, over 20 million euros, will not be.

What more will the corresponding Turkish frigate have and will it be better equipped?
And how does this 1/3 of the price come out, when the cost of your corvette(without HMS, VDS, VLS, SAM) is 250 mil?


The first I-Class has not commisioned yet, and you put into service a ship(TF Class), which is not ready yet, not even in the shipyards drawings?

Total contract value is 3bln euro (makes 1bln per ship)
 

Khagan1923

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1 Billion Dollars for each ship without intensive maintance care included.

The first two ships won't achieve FOC until 2029 maybe even 2030 which means for Greece will have two unprotected Frigates serving with IOC for 2 years before they go into dock to be upgraded.

Another agreement will most likely follow for maintance help which means another 100-200 Million on top.

By the time all three ships will achieve FOC we will enter 2030. That is everything goes to plan. Most likely it will see 2031-2032.

Forgoing weight issues, integration issues of equipment not planned for this series of ships, speed issues.

At the beginning of the next decade Greece will have three Frigates each for most likely over a billion Euros each who aren't designed for the missions and theaters Greece intends to use them as these were developed for low-intensity areas primarly for the French Navy and are armed with 76MM SR, 32 Aster-30, 8 Exocet AShM and RAM-CIWS.

By the same Time Turkey will have already for 4-5+ years four I-Class Frigates for the fraction of the cost, its first TF-2000 in the inventory and the next one most likely already undergoing trials with the third one in the water. With a second LHD following Anadolu.

And if the situation changes, as they always do, a good chance of having F-35B too.

And this is all with Greece trying to keep the price down.

And still paying the same amount as the Americans are for their better equipped Constellation-Class Frigates.

Congrats to France.
 

Akritas

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1 Billion Dollars for each ship without intensive maintance care included.

At the beginning of the next decade Greece will have three Frigates each for most likely over a billion Euros each who aren't designed for the missions and theaters Greece intends to use them as these were developed for low-intensity areas primarly for the French Navy and are armed with 76MM SR, 32 Aster-30, 8 Exocet AShM and RAM-CIWS.
Total contract value is 3bln euro (makes 1bln per ship)

“Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”, is a law of propaganda often attributed to the Nazi Joseph Goebbels.
So I repeat again:
  • The agreement contract has three contracts (ships, missiles, FOS)
  • The price of each unit is 707 billions euros, as specified in the contractor 2.1 bil
  • 0.9 bil are the missiles and FOS, 0.2 mil are the taxes.
At the beginning of the next decade Greece will have three Frigates each for most likely over a billion Euros each who aren't designed for the missions and theaters Greece intends to use them as these were developed for low-intensity areas primarly for the French Navy and are armed with 76MM SR, 32 Aster-30, 8 Exocet AShM and RAM-CIWS
And how do you know that?
In any case, the Greek FDI is what the Greek navy wanted, that is, to cover both the anti-submarine threat, the saturation attacks and the support of the Greek network-centric system.

By the same Time Turkey will have already for 4-5+ years four I-Class Frigates for the fraction of the cost, its first TF-2000 in the inventory and the next one most likely already undergoing trials with the third one in the water. With a second LHD following Anadolu.
On the other hand, Turkey is preparing a frigate, the I-Class, since 2013, its construction began in 2021, it is facing a problem with the VSL, who will carry only 16 missiles , like the two Greek ones in .... 2025-26.
And you support that in 2025, you will have solved all the problems, and suddenly it will become China in terms of shipbuilding.

You are talking about the LHD Anadolou, which started as ... an aircraft carrier with F-35, and ended up becoming drone carrier!!!
In the meantime, such ships in the Aegean, is the easier target.
 

Khagan1923

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This is nothing but a robbery, There should be a solid reason to choose FDI over British and Italian offers.

It’s political. France is the only country that supports Greece‘s absurd demands in the Mediterranean, exactly for this reason. Oral support leads to expansive purchases in fear the oral support could drop.

Just as the S-400 for us was a political purchase. To try and pressure the Americans.

Also why the FDI? Why not sell them Fremm frigates? Why offer a new design instead of a proven one?


I think those are good questions that need to be answered, but we might get them in a couple years.
 

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