Greece Analysis Greek - Turkish Relations

[Akritas]

In the early 1970s, Turkey initiated a systematic policy of contentions and claims against the sovereignty, the sovereign rights and jurisdictions of Greece.

The goal of this newly formed policy against Greece has been the changing of the territorial status quo provided for in international treaties – the Treaty of Lausanne being pivotal among these – and the legal status of maritime zones and airspace as they derive from international law and the law of the sea.

The initiation of this policy ushered in a new chapter of tension in Greek-Turkish relations that lasts to this day, and was marked by the first claims on the Greek continental shelf, in 1973, and the first disputing of the extent of Greek national airspace, in 1975.

The advent of this new Turkish policy coincided with the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in July 1974 and the subsequent Turkish occupation of the northern portion of Cyprus, which continues to this day, decisively impacting relations between the two countries and increasing tensions.

Starting at that time, Turkey began to weave a canvass of ever-increasing disputes and claims that even brought the two countries to the brink of armed conflict (crisis of March 1987 and Imia crisis of December 1996).

Starting with the dispute over the delimitation of the continental shelf (1973) and the crisis that followed – bringing the two countries into intense disagreement, which was taken in hand, on Greece’s initiative, by both the UN Security Council and the International Court in the Hague – Turkey started to implement the policy of constantly increasing contentions and claims, including:

1. contesting Greece’s legal right, on threat of war (casus belli), to extend its territorial sea to 12 nautical miles, as provided for by the Law of the Sea, and as has been done by virtually all coastal states in the international community, including Turkey (in the Black Sea and Eastern Mediterranean);
2. disputing the extent of Greek national airspace, through constant violations by Turkish fighter aircraft;
3. contesting Greek regime and sovereignty over islands and violation of that sovereignty;
4. disputing the delimitation of territorial sea;
5. disputing responsibilities within the Athinai FIR, which were entrusted to Greece by ICAO, and constant refusal on the part of Turkey to comply with air traffic regulations;
6. disputing Greece’s jurisdiction within the search and rescue region under Greek responsibility;
7. demanding the demilitarization of the islands of the Eastern Aegean.

Issues of Greek - Turkish Relations - Hellenic Republic - Ministry of Foreign Affairs

 

[Xenon54]

Current situation

What Greece wants

Do you seriously expect Turkey to accept its shipping routes to be virtually cut between Black sea and Mediterranian?
Sorry buddy but no state would accept that,hence the casus belli.
Apart from all Greece itself has been a expansionist state for millenias in the region, the current claim is just a reflexion of that.

 

[Akritas]

What Greece wants



Do you seriously expect Turkey to accept its shipping routes to be virtually cut between Black sea and Mediterranian?
Sorry buddy but no state would accept that,hence the casus belli.
Apart from all Greece itself has been a expansionist state for millenias in the region, the current claim is just a reflexion of that.

Turkish Misinformation

Greek thesis is clear:
According to customary international law, which is also codified in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), Greece has the right to extend its territorial waters to 12 nautical miles.
This right to extend territorial waters to up to 12 nautical miles is a sovereign right which can be unilaterally exercised, and is therefore not subject to any kind of restriction or exception and cannot be disputed by third countries (Article 3 of UNCLOS, which codifies a rule of customary law, does not provide for any restrictions or exceptions with regard to this right).

During ratification of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Law 2321/1995), our country stated explicitly that it reserves the right to exercise this right at any point in time.

In reaction to this legitimate position of Greece, the Turkish National Assembly issued a resolution on 8 June 1995 granting the Turkish government full and perpetual competence to declare war (casus belli) (authorizing it to use military means against Greece), should Greece decide to extend its territorial waters over 6 nautical miles.

This stance on the part of Turkey is a blatant violation of the fundamental principles of the UN Charter on refraining from the threat or use of force (article 2, paragraph 4), on the peaceful resolution of disputes (article 2 paragraph 3) and on good neighbourly relations and peaceful coexistence (Preamble).


More in......

Territorial sea - Casus belli - Relevant Documents

 

[Akritas]

Greece has a legal right to extend its territorial sea to 12 nautical miles, as provided for by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
Virtually all coastal states abide by the Law of the Sea, including Turkey, which since 1964 has expanded its territorial waters in the Black Sea and the North Mediterranean to 12 nautical miles.
When ratifying the Convention, Greece tabled a statement declaring that “the time and place of exercising these rights … is a matter arising from its national strategy.”

By the way, compare that fraudulent map(is Turkish made) with a genuine one seen below.

 

[Akritas]

Note:

• Islands Imbros and Tenedos do belong to Turkey and not to Greece
• There is no island between Chios and Andros! Turkish maps discovered an imaginary island between Andros and Chios.
• Territorial waters don't coincide with those of Greek mainland had the country extended them (following the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea) to 12 n.m.

Note

 

[Kansei]

Akritas as much as I get that it’s tiring arguing with 10 people with most of them being fallacious against only a single person, I’m pretty sure there are 3-4 threads with the same topic already and some started by you.

 

[Xenon54]

Akritas as much as I get that it’s tiring arguing with 10 people with most of them being fallacious against only a single person, I’m pretty sure there are 3-4 threads with the same topic already and some started by you.

There were literally only two other people except him on this thread before you showed up.
Why do you post in a forum if you are disturbed by opposing arguments? Not everybody has to agree with you know?

 

[Akritas]

Akritas as much as I get that it’s tiring arguing with 10 people with most of them being fallacious against only a single person, I’m pretty sure there are 3-4 threads with the same topic already and some started by you.

A debate is a structured argument. Two sides speak alternately for and against a particular contention usually based on a topical issue.It is an excellent way of improving speaking skills and is particularly helpful in providing experience in developing a convincing argument. Just be patient with open mind.

 

[Ryder]

Greeks constantly use the international bs law to push their expansion while crying as the victim.

Greece ever since its indep3ndance has been expanding not just land and the sea.

Incompetent Ottoman sultans were failing to realise what was going on. Because the economy was ran by Greeks, Jews and Armenians you had substantial population of them in Anatolia.

While at the same time all money was poured into the army while navy barely got any funding.

Late Ottomans and the Republic of Turkey are so naive to the Greek threat.

If Ataturk had the capabilities no doubt he would have pushed into Aegan islands and Western thrace. Too bad he had to make do whatever he could so respect for him kicking the Greeks out of Anatolia and giving the economy back to the Turks.

Funny how non Muslims complain about the various Islamic Empires while they benefitted the most from them. Every Islamic Empire handed its economy to the Greeks, Jews, Armenians, Assyrians and the Copts.

While Muslims regardless if they were Turk or Arab were mostly left poor and drafted to fight.

Nowadays we will have Muslims saying the good old days. What good old days.

 

[Akritas]

1-Greeks constantly use the international bs law to push their expansion while crying as the victim.

2-Greece ever since its indep3ndance has been expanding not just land and the sea.

3-Incompetent Ottoman sultans were failing to realise what was going on. Because the economy was ran by Greeks, Jews and Armenians you had substantial population of them in Anatolia.

4-While at the same time all money was poured into the army while navy barely got any funding.

5-Late Ottomans and the Republic of Turkey are so naive to the Greek threat.

You have put many different topics, which of course do not concern the issues of this post. But they cannot be left unanswered. I will try to answer one by one.

1. Greece stresses the need to respect International Law (in particular the International Law of the Sea) as well as the importance of the principle of good neighbourly relations – an essential European and UN common values. By calling as BS the international law, proves that you are not interested to live peacefully but only with war and conflict.
2. In principle, every nation wants its independence. After all, you came to our land(Greek and Ionia regions, Constantinople, e.t.c.), conquered it, enslaved us, slaughtered us and had us as slaves according to Islamic law. So it is only natural that we should be free at some point.After all, not only we were liberated(expanded according your mind) but also other nations, such as the Serbs, the Bulgarians and many others from the regions of the Middle East.
3. The Sultans, and you Turks in general, did not realize the magnitude of the importance of the Enlightenment, the French Revolution, the ideology of Liberal Nationalism. You only wanted Christians to be slaves and to pay taxes. At some point this would stop. And it was done.
4. And here you are wrong. The Turks have always used mercenaries. During Greek independence, the Ottoman army used Albanians and the Ottoman navy the Egyptians. So money was flowing everywhere, even in the navy.
5. I do not think so, after all, the national cleansing, massacres, punishable by death according to the precepts of the Koran, are the usual tactics of the....so called naives Turks.

 

[Pantelis]

Greece has a legal right to extend its territorial sea to 12 nautical miles, as provided for by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
Virtually all coastal states abide by the Law of the Sea, including Turkey, which since 1964 has expanded its territorial waters in the Black Sea and the North Mediterranean to 12 nautical miles.
When ratifying the Convention, Greece tabled a statement declaring that “the time and place of exercising these rights … is a matter arising from its national strategy.”

By the way, compare that fraudulent map(is Turkish made) with a genuine one seen below.

View attachment 36523

i want this too but I'm not sure that everyone will accept this . This means grand war between Greece and Turkey.

 

[Akritas]

i want this too but I'm not sure that everyone will accept this . This means grand war between Greece and Turkey.

Greece’s position on settling maritime differences in the Eastern Mediterranean has traditionally been based on international law. This principle has not changed during the ongoing tensions but it does not provide a solution to the problem.
So, the option of a multilateral dialogue is on the table. On these grounds, all sides have to diplomatically elaborate on opportunities for peaceful solutions which will demand concessions and good will from all sides involved.

 

[Xenon54]

Greece’s position on settling maritime differences in the Eastern Mediterranean has traditionally been based on international law. This principle has not changed during the ongoing tensions but it does not provide a solution to the problem.
So, the option of a multilateral dialogue is on the table. On these grounds, all sides have to diplomatically elaborate on opportunities for peaceful solutions which will demand concessions and good will from all sides involved.

Is Greece ready to allow an international passage throught Aegean and a fair share of EEZ in Eastern med. with the country that has the longest coastline to it or will it insist on its maximalist attitude?

 

[Akritas]

Is Greece ready to allow an international passage throught Aegean and a fair share of EEZ in Eastern med. with the country that has the longest coastline to it or will it insist on its maximalist attitude?

It is a fact that any expansion would have significant consequences for the range of international waters as well as for sea passages used by international shipping.
Due to this reason, Greece particularly emphasizes the right of innocent passage of merchant and warships. Greece has repeated this many times to the Turkey via the “exploratory talks” (2002-03 ,2010-16, 2020-21)

 

[Xenon54]

It is a fact that any expansion would have significant consequences for the range of international waters as well as for sea passages used by international shipping.
Due to this reason, Greece particularly emphasizes the right of innocent passage of merchant and warships. Greece has repeated this many times to the Turkey via the “exploratory talks” (2002-03 ,2010-16, 2020-21)

Yeah, those things always sound well on paper, just like the islands close to Turkish coast that are supposed to be demilitarized according to paper.

 

[Kansei]

@xenon5434 and @Akritas you both understood my message wrong. I didn't mean that it's bad that people have differing opinions what I meant is that just becauses you are overhwelmed with a lot of arguments of differing quality ( having the same effect as a gish gallop) IN OTHER THREADS THAT HAVE THE SAME TOPIC since it's 1 v like 6 in the other threads, doesn't mean you can just make a new thread with the same topic. My point was that there are already 1-4 threads covering this exact same issue and I assumed that Akritas was ovherwhlemed and just created new threads since I am pretty sure he took part /created other threads with the same topic. Regardless of my guess being right or wrong I still beleive there is no reason for this thread to exist as it just kills other active threads.

 

[Kansei]

Yeah, those things always sound well on paper, just like the islands close to Turkish coast that are supposed to be demilitarized according to paper.

Which islands are you reffering to ; you have to be specific since some islands have to obey certain papers and rules and others have to obey different ones

 

[Akritas]

My point was that there are already 1-4 threads covering this exact same issue and I assumed that Akritas was ovherwhlemed and just created new threads since I am pretty sure he took part /created other threads with the same topic. Regardless of my guess being right or wrong I still beleive there is no reason for this thread to exist as it just kills other active threads.

The reason that I opened this thread is exactly the reason you said: to gather in one thread the Greek counter-arguments that have been submitted in other threads, in order to be clear on Greek-Turkish issues.
Greek point of view was lost in so many Turkish threads and comments

 

[Akritas]

............, just like the islands close to Turkish coast that are supposed to be demilitarized according to paper.

Turkey over the past three decades, has maintained a significant number of military units, aircraft and landing craft at points on the coast of Asia Minor just across from the Greek islands, which is a serious threat against Greece.
Greece reiterates its position that it is fully justified in taking all elementary precautionary measures to ensure that it will be able to exercise its inalienable right to self-defence on the basis of Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, in particular given the above-mentioned conduct of Turkey since 1974.
So we are not talk only for....papers, but Greece faces the reality, that is the Turkish intentions and military forces .
More in......

Turkish claims regarding the demilitarization of Greek islands in the Aegean Sea

Turkey is the only country that refers to and demands the demilitarization of the “islands in the Eastern Aegean”. With regard to the militarization of the islands in the Eastern Aegean, various international agreements apply. In particular : • the status of the islands of Limnos and...

defencehub.live

 

[Huelague]

Nothing is more worse than Status Quo. It will be changed in near future. Than all empty talks will have an end.