Greece Analysis Greek - Turkish Relations

[Kansei]

You copy pasted Turkey's Official posistion on the matter but completely ignored what they have previously also aknowledged about Lemnos and Samothrace. I assume you don't have a problem with me just copy pasting Greece's arguments from wikipedia since you did the same for the Turkish Goverment:

Lemnos and Samothrace​

Greece holds that, by superseding the relevant sections of the earlier treaty, the convention simultaneously lifted also the Greek obligations with respect to these islands. Against this, Turkey argues that the Montreux treaty did not mention the islands and has not changed their status. Greece, on the other hand, cites Turkish official declarations, by the then Turkish Minister for Foreign Affairs, Rustu Aras, to that effect made in 1936, assuring the Greek side that Turkey would consider the Greek obligations lifted.

Dodecanese​

These islands were placed under a demilitarization statute after the Second World War by the Treaty of peace with Italy (1947), when Italy ceded them to Greece. Italy had previously not been under any obligation towards Turkey in this respect. Turkey, in turn, was not a party to the 1947 treaty, having been neutral during WWII. Greece therefore holds that the obligations it incurred towards Italy and the other parties in 1947 are res inter alios acta for Turkey in the sense of Article 34 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, which states that a treaty does not create obligations or rights for a third country, and that Turkey thus cannot base any claims on them.

Lesbos, Chios, Samos, and Ikaria​

The remaining islands (Lesbos, Chios, Samos, and Ikaria) were placed under a partial demilitarization statute by the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923. It prohibited the establishment of naval bases and fortifications, but allowed Greece to maintain a limited military contingent recruited from the local population, as well as police forces.

Wikipedia goes on saying that Greece's position is of UN's articles on self defence blah blah blah but from what I understood it's an argument used on why they should be allowed just like with 12NM, not that they actually broke the Treaty since there are no naval bases or fortifications on those Islands from what I know of.

What I dont understand is why you people make this argument. Is it to prove that Greece having soldiers on small islands is a threat against mainland Turkey ? Do you legitimately beleive that Greece, a small country in the balkans, with it's 10 million population and negative population growth wants to go to war and go against Turkey with it's 84 million population and it's positive population growth, NATO and the U.S.A ?
First the argument made by Turks is that Greece is so insignificant that it's the US b*tch and would bend overbackwards for her, and that not only would it not do anything that will go against the U.S or even slightly incovinience them, but we take direct instructions from the U.S on our foreign policy and we "sell" our freedom and homeland to get in reward what other countries have recieved from the U.S only 100X (compared to Egypt) worse and for a bigger price.

Then the argument is that Turkey has a legitimate reason to be afraid of a Greek invasion in Turkey and go against her, NATO and the U.S?

@xenon5434 are you going to reply or ?

 

[Xenon54]

@xenon5434 are you going to reply or ?

Reply to what? I posted Turkish stance and you did Greek one...
Fact is Greece is accusing Turkey of violating something that it never signed while Greece itself is violating numerous agreements since decades.
Not to mention granting asylum to pkk terrorists, Turkey threatened other countries with war because of that so imagine how much we are not interested in war with Greece.
I neither have time nor the will to reply to your bad attemts in justifiying of why you do what you do, you are not the diplomatic ones dont act so innocent now.
Go and play your '' bad bad Turks'' card to the west, they are eager to buy it these days anyways, its your best bet at this point.

 

[Kansei]

Reply to what? I posted Turkish stance and you did Greek one...

I used Greece’s official claims and other facts like that we don’t have fortresses or naval bases there to debunk your point, usually in an argument you either agree or present counter-arguments ?
Also you dodge- sorry I meant “conveniently ignored” my question at the end of the reply .

 

[Xenon54]

I used Greece’s official claims and other facts like that we don’t have fortresses or naval bases there to debunk your point, usually in an argument you either agree or present counter-arguments ?
Also you dodge- sorry I meant “conveniently ignored” my question at the end of the reply .

I edited my post, take it or leave it.

 

[Kansei]

Reply to what? I posted Turkish stance and you did Greek one...
Fact is Greece is accusing Turkey of violating something that it never signed while Greece itself is violating numerous agreements since decades.
Not to mention granting asylum to pkk terrorists, Turkey threatened other countries with war because of that so imagine how much we are not interested in war with Greece.
I neither have time nor the will to reply to your bad attemts in justifiying of why you do what you do, you are not the diplomatic ones dont act so innocent now.
Go and play your '' bad bad Turks'' card to the west, they are eager to buy it these days anyways, its your best bet at this point.

I edited my post, take it or leave it.

HAHAHA You completely dodged the conversation and the question I had to remind you twice about now, spewed some random words about a random topic and then “conveniently” right when you realized that you can’t debunk facts like the contradicting statement made by the Turkish Government, you suddenly “didn’t have time” to reply to this conversation about an argument THAT YOU MADE and when you have literally over 1000 replies in the forum.
“You are not the diplomatic ones”
AHAHAHAHAHA
I swear I’ve seen you post in other threads that Greece relies too much on crying (diplomacy), and doesn’t take action .

“Go and play your bad bad Turks card to the west”
YEA THATS CALLED TRYING TO RESOLVE AN ISSUE DIPLOMATICALLY LMAO .
GREECE AND TURKEY HAVE REACHED A DIPLOMATIC STALEMATE, GREECE IS STILL TRYING TO MOVE THROUGH DIPLOMACY WHILE TUEKEY IS MAKING THREATS

This the problem with a lot of Nationalist Turks, you are debunked by historical facts that literally no other countrie refutes, and even when somebody feels bad and reaches out to hear out if you have an actual valid point and tries to debate using YOUR LOGIC AND STATEMENTS, you suddenly dodge and leave the conversation because of one core issue:
You’re not here to try to broaden your knowledge of the truth and justice, you would rather literally lie to yourself and only collect half of the facts while actively ignoring the truth just so it can fit your narrative.
Because you don’t care about who is right or wrong, you just want to justify your Maximalistic (the word you love oh so much to use to describe Greece’s stance) desires.

 

[Xenon54]

HAHAHA You completely dodged the conversation and the question I had to remind you twice about now, spewed some random words about a random topic and then “conveniently” right when you realized that you can’t debunk facts like the contradicting statement made by the Turkish Government, you suddenly “didn’t have time” to reply to this conversation about an argument THAT YOU MADE and when you have literally over 1000 replies in the forum.
“You are not the diplomatic ones”
AHAHAHAHAHA
I swear I’ve seen you post in other threads that Greece relies too much on crying (diplomacy), and doesn’t take action .
“Go and play your bad bad Turks card to the west” YEA THATS CALLED TRYING TO RESOLVE AN ISSUE DIPLOMATICALLY LMAO .GREECE AND TURKEY HAVE REACHED A DIPLOMATIC STALEMATE, GREECE IS STILL TRYING TO MOVE THROUGH DIPLOMACY WHILE TUEKEY IS MAKING THREATS

This the problem with a lot of Nationalist Turks, you are debunked by historical facts that literally no other countrie refutes, and even when somebody feels bad and reaches out to hear out if you have an actual valid point and tries to debate using YOUR LOGIC AND STATEMENTS, you suddenly dodge and leave the conversation because of one core issue:
You’re not here to try to broaden your knowledge of the truth and justice, you would rather literally lie to yourself and only collect half of the facts while actively ignoring the truth just so it can fit your narrative.
Because you don’t care about who is right or wrong, you just want to justify your Maximalistic (the words you love oh so much used to describe Greece’s stance) desires.

Ok dude, you won, you are right, do what you gotta do.

 

[Kansei]

Ok dude, you won, you are right, do what you gotta do.

I can’t understand if you’re being sarcastic or not. If not then I just want to say I appreciate your sincerity and humility and that I hope you understand that the truth is more important than which side holds it

 

[Manomed]

That is an international movement to boycott "Turkey's Facism" that I'm pretty sure didn't start from Greece. Can you people make actual arguments instead of dodging and gish galloping with "muh GreekCityTimes" and "Muh innocent Greek islands", arguments that you yourselves did not take 10 seconds to check and just threw into the wall to see what sticks ?

I didn't said greek Island I said

"Island Greeks"

 

[Kansei]

I didn't said greek Island I said

"Island Greeks"

And that matters why ?

 

[Kansei]

I just hate the greeks thats all

Yea we get it, Haha Gigachad Turk Pfp greek all bad glory to Ottomans/AKP/Whatever new Neo-Fascist Ideology/Manifesto Mumbo Jumbo you discover this week

 

[Manomed]

Yea we get it, Haha Gigachad Turk Pfp greek all bad glory to Ottomans/AKP/Whatever new Neo-Fascist Ideology/Manifesto Mumbo Jumbo you discover this week

If you were intelligent enough you would have seen me talking against akp and the arab religion even against ottomans but I can't expect this from a greek who only thinks about akp whenever he sees a nationalist DD I might be a Neo fascist tho not sure cope more Island greek

 

[Kansei]

If you were intelligent enough you would have seen me talking against akp and the arab religion even against ottomans but I can't expect this from a greek who only thinks about akp whenever he sees a nationalist DD I might be a Neo fascist tho not sure cope more Island greek

If you were smart enough you would have realized (not purposely ignored) that i bunched all of these radical ideology/parties/empires in a category to make fun of the fact they are neo-facist ideas agreed by immature nationalists with a God Complex
Yea you totally didn't ignore how I also said Ottoman and Whatever new Neo-Fascist Ideology/Manifesto you find this week because you wanted to strawman my point because you realize you can't make an actual argument to save your life

 

[Huelague]

That is an international movement to boycott "Turkey's Facism" that I'm pretty sure didn't start from Greece. Can you people make actual arguments instead of dodging and gish galloping with "muh GreekCityTimes" and "Muh innocent Greek islands", arguments that you yourselves did not take 10 seconds to check and just threw into the wall to see what sticks ?

50 years old party. Today you found out, its a far right party. Like Golden Dawn.

 

[Kansei]

50 years old party. Today you found out, its a far right party. Like Golden Dawn.

Huh ? No my point wasn't that it's turkish fascism so Turkey bad, it was to debunk the point made that it's Greek "aggresion" against Turkey ; the anti-fascist organization in the paper (I am pretty sure) isn't even Greek

 

[Ryder]

Yea we get it, Haha Gigachad Turk Pfp greek all bad glory to Ottomans/AKP/Whatever new Neo-Fascist Ideology/Manifesto Mumbo Jumbo you discover this week

Ottomans are based the more the greeks cry about them the more I like them.

Anyway you Greeks benefitted a lot from the Empire. You should be thankful.

 

[Akritas]

Anyway you Greeks benefitted a lot from the Empire. You should be thankful.

Yes sure: massacres, mass murders, slavery, land tax and trade tax only for Christians, childs gathering, force islamization, refugees..... a complete Ottoman genocide!!!
Are all this learned in your official history or whoever dares to say them, is imprisoned as a terrorist ?

 

[Manomed]

I also like how Greeks cry to EU about Libya.

We have libyans here who support Turkish help against russians. But Mr akritas here knows better than those Libyans who suffered death and destruction.

@Captain LY @AWP Can you educate this Greek person here about situation in libya We know greece supports dictator Haftar but lets give him a small lesson about not to cry about stuff that is none of his business.

 

[Ryder]

Yes sure: massacres, mass murders, slavery, land tax and trade tax only for Christians, childs gathering, force islamization, refugees..... a complete Ottoman genocide!!!
Are all this learned in your official history or whoever dares to say them, is imprisoned as a terrorist ?

Ottomans did not draft you into war or kept you guys into poverty or wiped you guys out like what happened to the native americans.

You guys were allowed to keep your wealth and even your churches. Ottomans even allowed greeks to study abroad.

You guys benefitted a lot from them even more than the Turks themselves.

Thats why the Turkish republic did a good thing in taking control of the economy off your hands back to us.

If did not happen the Turks would be living in poverty while Greeks, Armenians and Jews would be living rich in our own lands.

 

[Akritas]

Ottomans did not draft you into war or kept you guys into poverty or wiped you guys out like what happened to the native americans.

You guys were allowed to keep your wealth and even your churches. Ottomans even allowed greeks to study abroad.

You guys benefitted a lot from them even more than the Turks themselves..

When one does not cite sources, it means that's arguments are baseless.
Thus, historically and genetically, have been scientifically proven that the Turks carried out the cleansing and Islamization of the local population both in the Balkans and in Asia Minor, in modern terms, ethnic cleansing and genocides.
e.g. Haplogroups J2 and R1b , which is widespread among Mediterranean, Caucasian, and Europe, located up to 25% to the present Turkish population. By contrast, Central Asian haplogroups (C, Q, and O) are rarer.

So, have a nice reading....

Historically.....

Amazon.com

Amazon.com: Daily Life in the Medieval Islamic World (Daily Life Through History): 9780872209343: Lindsay, James E.: Books

Amazon.com: Daily Life in the Medieval Islamic World (Daily Life Through History): 9780872209343: Lindsay, James E.: Books

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com: Women and Slavery in the Late Ottoman Empire: The Design of Difference (Cambridge Studies in Islamic Civilization): 9780521515832: Zilfi, Madeline: Books

Amazon.com: Women and Slavery in the Late Ottoman Empire: The Design of Difference (Cambridge Studies in Islamic Civilization): 9780521515832: Zilfi, Madeline: Books

www.amazon.com

Devshirme and Shari'a | Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies | Cambridge Core

Devshirme and Shari'a - Volume 17 Issue 2

www.cambridge.org

Amazon.com

Genetically.....

DNA diversity and population admixture in Anatolia - PubMed

The Turkic language was introduced in Anatolia at the start of this millennium, by nomadic Turkmen groups from Central Asia. Whether that cultural transition also had significant population-genetics consequences is not fully understood. Three nuclear microsatellite loci, the hypervariable region...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Comparative analyses for the Central Asian contribution to Anatolian gene pool with reference to Balkans

open.metu.edu.tr

Mitochondrial analysis of a Byzantine population reveals the differential impact of multiple historical events in South Anatolia

The archaeological site of Sagalassos is located in Southwest Turkey, in the western part of the Taurus mountain range. Human occupation of its territory is attested from the late 12th millennium BP up to the 13th century AD. By analysing the mtDNA variation ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Akritas]

I also like how Greeks cry to EU about Libya.

We have libyans here who support Turkish help against russians. But Mr akritas here knows better than those Libyans who suffered death and destruction.

Libya Issue Part 1
History background(2014-2019)

The current conflict in Libya can be traced to 2014, when a coalition of Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist elements from Misrata violently took over Tripoli after Islamists resoundingly lost the democratic elections.

Following their loss, they proceeded to violently remove the elected parliament of Libya from Tripoli, in an operation known as Fajr Libya (Operation Dawn), forcing it to relocate to Tobruk in the east. Leading the violent coup against the democratically elected parliament was Salah Badi, the same recipient of the Turkish armed vehicle last month and internationally sanctioned as a war criminal for his destruction of the Tripoli airport twice and for the use of Grad missiles against civilians.

The House of Representatives remained in Tobruk since then, as the capital of the country and the Western region became occupied by militias. On March 2015, the elected Libyan parliament and the only internationally recognized parliament of Libya appointed Field Marshal Khalifa Haftar to head the Libyan National Army (LNA) and combat terrorism, militias, and to restore Libyan sovereignty from the ISIS strongholds that established in the country.

Supporting this violent removal of the elected parliament was Turkey and Qatar, which supplied the militias with arms and logistical support and who continue to resist elections, fight the national army to this day and promotes the so called U.N.-recognized Government of National Accord (GNA), that is strongly influenced by the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist elements.

Turkey’s Support to Libya’s Outlaw Militias and the Threat to Europe’s Southern Flank

rieas.gr

https://www.idf.il/en/minisites/dado-center/research-1/turkey-s-political-influence-in-libya-and-the-weaponization-of-the-muslim-brotherhood/

Turkey leans towards militants in Libya as ties with Muslim Brotherhood erode | Mona El-Mahrouki | AW

Ankara is increasingly angry at the Libyan Muslim Brotherhood, especially in light of what appears to be the UN mission’s proposal to appoint Aguila Saleh, current Speaker of the Libyan Parliament, as head of the new presidential council, and the minister of interior of the Government of...

thearabweekly.com

Turkey's Escalation in Libya: Implications and U.S. Policy Options - JINSA

Turkey’s recent intervention in Libya’s civil war has intensified the involvement of rival foreign powers in the strategically situated, energy-rich country, and threatens vital U.S. interests in the region, even as Washington mostly observes from the sidelines. Ankara became significantly… Read...

jinsa.org

Libya Dawn / fajr Libya

Libyan National Army

www.globalsecurity.org