India HAL Tejas Program

[Zapper]

 

[kaykay]

Astra air combat missile to be soon tested from Tejas fighter | India News - Times of India

India News: NEW DELHI: India’s first indigenous air-to-air missile Astra will soon be tested from the first home-grown fighter Tejas, in yet another major step to.

m.timesofindia.com

 

[kaykay]

Astra to be integrated and test fired from Tejas soon. Hope Asraam integration is at hand as well.

 

[Zapper]

Astra to be integrated and test fired from Tejas soon. Hope Asraam integration is at hand as well.

Is this the same ASRAAM IAF procured from MBDA?

 

[Indos]

Is this the same ASRAAM IAF procured from MBDA?

Do you know the production rate of Teja currently ? How many planes can be produced each year ?

 

[kaykay]

Is this the same ASRAAM IAF procured from MBDA?

Yeah same Asraam. After issues with Python 5 integration ( some vibration issues), Asraam will now be the new wvr along with already integrated R-73s. In near future Tejas will have atleast 4 types of air to air missiles, Derby/ER, R73, Asraam, Astra.

 

[kaykay]

Do you know the production rate of Teja currently ? How many planes can be produced each year ?

Current rate is 8 now but Its meaningless unless new orders comes in. They are supposed to produce 16 aircrafts per year after the 83 AESA variant order which is supposed to be ordered in this financial year then only we will see real production. For now HAL is just keeping things busy and barely running till Tejas AESA variant is ready for production. Also in mean time they are going with alot of new weapon integrations.

 

[Zapper]

Do you know the production rate of Teja currently ? How many planes can be produced each year ?

The current order for LCA Mk-1 is only for 40 jets with the production rate being 8 per year. It's supposed to be increased to 12 ever since the FOC version flew earlier this year but with the whole pandemic, I'm unsure if that has been implemented yet.

The production rate for LCA Mk-1A will be 16 per year since the order will be for 83 jets but HAL chief said they will ramp it up to 20 jets per year

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/20-tejas-a-year-possible-hal-chief-37648

MWF (LCA Mk-2) metal cutting for initial prototypes was originally scheduled for Q4 of 2020 but has been postponed to 2021 due to the whole covid saga. The requirement is for 120 MWFs but that could be increased based on the fighter jets retiring. Now that the Su-30 MKI's production line will come to a halt, I assume it will be modified and converted to produce the MWF with 20+ jets per year

 

[Zapper]

The Tejas at times needs a belly rub

 

[Raptor]

View attachment 7171

Can't wait for mk2

 

[Zapper]

Can't wait for mk2

We should stop calling it Mk2 and instead start using "MWF" since it's an entirely different weight class. Also, I hope we discard ORCA & TEDBF projects and divert all resources along with extensive private industry participation to the AMCA project

 

[Raptor]

We should stop calling it Mk2 and instead start using "MWF" since it's an entirely different weight class. Also, I hope we discard ORCA & TEDBF projects and divert all resources along with extensive private industry participation to the AMCA project

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Well I didn't use MWF word,because it could confused with AMCA.
anyways.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

We should stop calling it Mk2 and instead start using "MWF" since it's an entirely different weight class. Also, I hope we discard ORCA & TEDBF projects and divert all resources along with extensive private industry participation to the AMCA project

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Wov! MWF looks like a real beast. I hope it will be an aircraft that meets your expectations. Do you know about its features?

 

[kaykay]

Wov! MWF looks like a real beast. I hope it will be an aircraft that meets your expectations. Do you know about its features?

Basically It will be a medium weight multirole fighter with Indigenous AESA Uttam and IRST. Will have 11 hardpoints and will be able to carry Brahmos NG. In major components and weapons, apart from engine, pretty much everything will be Indigenous. Atleast this is what expected at this stage.

This is Uttam. Already Integrated to one of the Tejas airframes and trails are going on currently.

Uttam AESA Radar - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Zapper]

Well I didn't use MWF word,because it could confused with AMCA.
anyways.

I think MWF will be the official nomenclature similar to how the LCA is for the Tejas. I'm sure MWF will have a sanskrit name as well while AMCA is just a different boat and there'd be only two variants of it...the AF and naval version which isn't remotely associated to the MWF

 

[Zapper]

Wov! MWF looks like a real beast. I hope it will be an aircraft that meets your expectations. Do you know about its features?

On a high level note, the MWF is an enlarged version of the LCA with enhanced range and capabilities.

Here's a basic spec comparison between the two

Spec​	LCA​	MWF​
Length	13.2m	14.6m
Wingspan	8.2m	8.5m
Height	4.4m	4.86m
Wing Area	38.4 sq.m	44 sq.m
Max Takeoff Weight	13.5 tons	17.5 tons
Powerplant	GE-F404	GE-F414
Max Speed	Mach 1.6	Mach 2.0
Range	1850km	2500km
Combat Range	500km with internal tanks	1500km
Ferry Range	3200km with 2x external tanks	3500km with two drop tanks
Service Ceiling	50k ft	50k+ ft (to be confirmed)
g limits	+8/-3.5	+9/-3.5 (to be confirmed)
Hardpoints	8	11
Guns	23mm Twin-Barrel GSh-23 cannon	23mm Twin-Barrel GSh-23 cannon

The current LCA Mk-1s in production uses the Israeli Elta EL/M-2032 multi mode radar. The initial batch of LCA Mk-1A will use Elta's EL/M-2052 AESA Radar which will be replaced by DRDO's Uttam AESA Radar and the same will be used on the MWF as well.

The MWF will also sport indigenous infrared search and track, missile approach warning, internalized integrated EW suite, integrated life support system-onboard oxygen generation system (ILSS-OBOGS), increased payload capacity, network centric warfare and wide area multifunction display systems

Structural changes include overall increase in airframe/fuselage size, addition of close-coupled canards, increased hardpoints, retractable air-to-air refueling probe, modified spine/air-intakes/canopy shape, reduced radar cross-section, twisted air-intake ducts and extensive usage of radar-absorbent materials

 

[Nilgiri]

On a high level note, the MWF is an enlarged version of the LCA with enhanced range and capabilities.

Here's a basic spec comparison between the two

Spec​	LCA​	MWF​
Length	13.2m	14.6m
Wingspan	8.2m	8.5m
Height	4.4m	4.86m
Wing Area	38.4 sq.m	44 sq.m
Max Takeoff Weight	13.5 tons	17.5 tons
Powerplant	GE-F404	GE-F414
Max Speed	Mach 1.6	Mach 2.0
Range	1850km	2500km
Combat Range	500km with internal tanks	1500km
Ferry Range	3200km with 2x external tanks	3500km with two drop tanks
Service Ceiling	50k ft	50k+ ft (to be confirmed)
g limits	+8/-3.5	+9/-3.5 (to be confirmed)
Hardpoints	8	11
Guns	23mm Twin-Barrel GSh-23 cannon	23mm Twin-Barrel GSh-23 cannon

The current LCA Mk-1s in production uses the Israeli Elta EL/M-2032 multi mode radar. The initial batch of LCA Mk-1A will use Elta's EL/M-2052 AESA Radar which will be replaced by DRDO's Uttam AESA Radar and the same will be used on the MWF as well.

The MWF will also sport indigenous infrared search and track, missile approach warning, internalized integrated EW suite, integrated life support system-onboard oxygen generation system (ILSS-OBOGS), increased payload capacity, network centric warfare and wide area multifunction display systems

Structural changes include overall increase in airframe/fuselage size, addition of close-coupled canards, increased hardpoints, retractable air-to-air refueling probe, modified spine/air-intakes/canopy shape, reduced radar cross-section, twisted air-intake ducts and extensive usage of radar-absorbent materials

Honestly MWF should have been the size to begin with. We likely would have had 10 squadrons or more of MWF built, deployed, integrated and doctrinated by now if the overall project management was set reasonably in the 80s and 90s rather than "has to be within this small size....REEE!"

It first of all gives lot more flexibility to Engine selection.

The process for the Mig-21 replacement should have from the onset never been contingent/dependent on Kaveri engine (and a very narrow threshold of engine thrust/class around it...leading to 404 selection when kaveri inevitably stalled in RnD results...and then 404 sanction from nuclear test and etc etc).

Rather a general engine thrust/size should have been picked first and then work outwards on the design....so when the design is finally mature for prototype, you can back fill the engine in interests of time with the options you have (it wouldnt have to be just kaveri or 404 or bust).

This would have evolved a MWF size fighter as natural conclusion from onset basically.

Second of all, the LCA rigid small size constraint was the root problem of several noticeable aerodynamic performance issues with LCA that it is basically stuck with.

Third of all, the bang for your buck per airplane (in mission capability) hits more of the sweetspot in MWF size compared to LCA.

/rant

 

[Gautam]

Tenders coming out of HAL for manufacturing of Tejas Mk2 are very informative :

No more custom-made TDs, PVs, LSPs. The very first LSPs for Mk2 will roll out from a standard production line (as stated by ADA chief and HAL Chairman). The three sections of the fuselage, the two wings and the fin will be made by Tier I private suppliers.

Fuel tanks and their respective capacities :

 

[Raptor]

On a high level note, the MWF is an enlarged version of the LCA with enhanced range and capabilities.

Here's a basic spec comparison between the two

Spec​	LCA​	MWF​
Length	13.2m	14.6m
Wingspan	8.2m	8.5m
Height	4.4m	4.86m
Wing Area	38.4 sq.m	44 sq.m
Max Takeoff Weight	13.5 tons	17.5 tons
Powerplant	GE-F404	GE-F414
Max Speed	Mach 1.6	Mach 2.0
Range	1850km	2500km
Combat Range	500km with internal tanks	1500km
Ferry Range	3200km with 2x external tanks	3500km with two drop tanks
Service Ceiling	50k ft	50k+ ft (to be confirmed)
g limits	+8/-3.5	+9/-3.5 (to be confirmed)
Hardpoints	8	11
Guns	23mm Twin-Barrel GSh-23 cannon	23mm Twin-Barrel GSh-23 cannon

The current LCA Mk-1s in production uses the Israeli Elta EL/M-2032 multi mode radar. The initial batch of LCA Mk-1A will use Elta's EL/M-2052 AESA Radar which will be replaced by DRDO's Uttam AESA Radar and the same will be used on the MWF as well.

The MWF will also sport indigenous infrared search and track, missile approach warning, internalized integrated EW suite, integrated life support system-onboard oxygen generation system (ILSS-OBOGS), increased payload capacity, network centric warfare and wide area multifunction display systems

Structural changes include overall increase in airframe/fuselage size, addition of close-coupled canards, increased hardpoints, retractable air-to-air refueling probe, modified spine/air-intakes/canopy shape, reduced radar cross-section, twisted air-intake ducts and extensive usage of radar-absorbent materials

What would be the endurance?

 

[Nilgiri]